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Do angels have freewill?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by findingmyfaith View Post
    I was having a chat with a non-christian friend and this question came up (not sure how we got onto it but hey!).

    Angels obey God and are under His authority, but do they have freewill? If they don't then how come Satan chose to disobey God?

    Thanks, Faith xox
    Yes, angels have "freewill"; we [should] know this to be so by Scripture: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

    The "heart" of a being (especially angels and humans) is his/her "will". It is the center of you ("a living soul").

    Notice that Lucifer (Satan) first "said" in his "heart (will)"; he couldn't have said what he said, without having "freewill".

    GOD is not into canned/forced obedience, praise, and/or worship.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sirus View Post
      i am just curious, some one give me scripture that says that there is no free will. since this would solve many disputes among the osas and nosas and the calvinists.
      Such a verse would contradict all the verses that speak of 'free will'. No one can give you something that doesn't exist in truth.


      • #18
        Yes, that was my point, and hopefully you are just agreeing with me.


        • #19
          Originally posted by cross crusader View Post
          i am just curious, some one give me scripture that says that there is free will. since this would solve many disputes among the osas and nosas and the calvinists.

          "Will" is such a big word in some ways. Freedom of thought and freedom of choice narrow the focus a bit I think. This may not be exactly what you are looking for, but I think a good witness for freedom of thought at least. But if we have freedom of thought how can choice and decision not follow?

          "I was sought by those who did not ask for Me; I was found by those who did not seek Me. I said, 'Here I am, here I am,' To a nation that was not called by My name. I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts; A people who provoke Me to anger continually to My face; Who sacrifice in gardens, And burn incense on altars of brick; Who sit among the graves, And spend the night in the tombs; Who eat swine's flesh, And the broth of abominable things is in their vessels; Who say, 'Keep to yourself, Do not come near me, For I am holier than you!' These are smoke in My nostrils, A fire that burns all the day. (Isa 65:1-5 NKJV)


          • #20
            Originally posted by cross crusader View Post
            i am just curious, some one give me scripture that says that there is free will. since this would solve many disputes among the osas and nosas and the calvinists.
            Leviticus 22:21 And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.

            If there is no freewill this scripture would be impossible to carry out.

            (Yes Sirus, I am agreeing with you.)


            • #21
              Re: Do angels have freewill?

              I have to agree with you David. Angels were created by God, not born like humans. So there would not be the transfer of sin and the sin nature. Salvation was not offered to the fallen angels so they would have no concept of that. Interesting. They do see human salvation but cannot relate to it as we can because no angel has every been "saved". If they chose to disobey God, they would be doing it from a sinless perspective, which none of us can relate to.


              • #22
                Re: Do angels have freewill?

                Obviously, angels have free will. Like man they have the capacity to carry out God's will as His agents, or not. Everything we hear about them presupposes that they have free will, just as Man does. Satan is an angel who freely chose to abandon God.

                I don't know if there are big sins or little sins among angels. We aren't told, as far as I know? Satan's sin was obviously a big sin, because he not only chose to disobey God, but he tried to preempt God's rule on earth, as well as in heaven. He led other angels to follow him in a rebellion against God.

                We just can't say what we don't know about angels. But it's an interesting question...


                • #23
                  Re: Do angels have freewill?

                  Saying that free will is a great gift from god does not mean that it is worshipping the gift of free will but to praise it. You may praise what you see fit and what brings you peace and presence in mind, but don't accuse others of worshipping falsely because you made implications that they did not, we all know the importance of Jesus himself.

                  The Angels of course have free will or they would never have been ought to receive punishment from the lord, it was their choices that caused their downfall, but some also repented and those are the ones god will utilize during the period of judgement and tribulations.

                  God gave all creatures free will, otherwise how would any of them be fit for judgement, you cannot judge those who are pawns of another's choices, god would not do that, but he would judge righteously those who erred in their judgement free of will, and that's what he does and always will do.


                  • #24
                    Re: Do angels have freewill?

                    Originally posted by EarlyCall View Post
                    I don't know if they have free will now or not to be honest. They certainly did at one time.

                    At some point in time, satan and one third of the angels rebelled against God. To move from a state on non-rebellion to one of rebellion, one must make the choice to do so. And in fact satan and one third of the angels did through free will make that choice.

                    Further, two thirds chose not to rebel. It would be silly to think otherwise unless one thinks the other two thirds of the angels were unaware of the rebellion. Of course they were as were the other third, but they chose not to rebel.

                    Now I don't know, but it seems to me that at that point every angel exercised their free will and made their choice. However, unlike us, their choice was may have been final. We are not like them and they are not like us. We do not read of any other time of angels coming and going and changing sides or of leaving God except this one time alone.

                    So, did they have free will? The evidence is conclusive that they did - they chose. Do they still? Perhaps, but it seems to me to be moot either way now.
                    yes, I think the key is what Satan has done, not only to angels but to men in deceiving them and leading them astray.

                    “And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

                    And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

                    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
                    **Revelation‬ *12:4, 7-9‬ *KJV‬‬

                    We know during the gospel Jesus said this

                    “And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”
                    **Luke‬ *10:18‬ *KJV‬‬

                    further we know there were many demons or evil spirits present in the gospel.

                    Man is made in the image of God, giving man dominion, freedom and choice. Satan exploited our freedom when the first commandment t came. " you are free to eat of any tree in the garden but you must not eat of the tree of the k owl edge of good and evil, for when you do you will surely die"

                    that's saying " you are free to eat all the trees, but this one is deadly don't eat of this fruit, even though you are free.

                    mans choice. Is to believe Gods word that the fruit is deadly, but then Satan through the serpent offers them the exact opposite word . " you will not surely die, for God knows it will make you as gods knowing good and evil"

                    man chose his word, over Gods word when both were presented. We are free to choose, otherwise God would have blocked the way to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, rather than saying " your free to eat of any tree, but this one you must not"

                    it's like with Jesus, everyone is free to hear the gospel it's everywhere in the world, but some when they hear it, refuse to believe it by way of the darkness in the world, they love darkness rather than light. Jesus will bring out what's in us when we hear the gospel. Though we were made slaves to sin, there is freedom from it in the gospel.....

                    the quotes from Jude, are actually quotes from the book of Enoch, which predates Jesus birth , but no one can date it back to the times of Enoch or job. It dates to about 250 bc which is around 300 years before the gospel was preached by Jesus , this shows the book of Enoch was at least accepted by Jude, and Peter also uses a quote from it.

                    I'm not suggesting it's a reliable source such as the scriptures we trust, but it is a very very interesting read. The book suggests that Enoch , who never died but walked away with God, then was translated into the heavenly places and gives his account of those things. The bible assures us that Enoch didn't die and was translated, but the book of Enoch remains a very controversial text , because of the canonization and rejection of many, Jewish writings or apocryphal books.

                    I would never suggest someone make doctrine from the book of Enoch , but it's very interesting to me that Jude and Peter both quote from it, which dates at least to 350 years before thier epistles. It deals with what happened with the Angels, and the preordianation of Jesus Christ, also has some ones regarding the nephilim, that Genesis mentions....again, I'm not saying it's proper doctrine I do not know, but it does jive quite well with the rest of scripture and is rather interesting


                    • #25
                      Re: Do angels have freewill?

                      And what if they do have free will ?

                      And can we better describe "free will" ? Is it simply the ability to judge and make decisions ?

                      Or else why do they exist?
                      Are they just some posse that follows God around ? I doubt it.

                      And what if they do have it ? They are perhaps still powerless without the Spirit of God just as we are.


                      • #26
                        Re: Do angels have freewill?

                        yes they do that was how they abandoned their proper place. Rebelled against God and so on.