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Forgiveness of sins after water baptism

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  • Forgiveness of sins after water baptism

    In this thread WE WILL ASSUME THAT WATER BAPTISM IS THE MEANS THROUGH WHICH CHRISTIANS RECIEVE INITIAL FORGIVENESS OF SINS.(if you would like to argue wether water baptism is the means through which forgiveness is given please vist the other thread open on that subject)

    now, if forgiveness of sins is had upon water baptism, should we get water baptised everytime we sin afterwards, or simply confess sins. please use Scripture to support either position. if we can be forgiven afterward withoutw water what does that say about the water?
    Last edited by reformedct; Mar 10th 2009, 01:48 AM.

  • #2
    reformedct

    You stated:
    Forgiveness of sins after water baptism
    In this thread WE WILL ASSUME THAT WATER BAPTISM IS THE MEANS THROUGH WHICH CHRISTIANS RECIEVE INITIAL FORGIVENESS OF SINS.


    Would please show us from scripture where it says a person receives initial forgiveness? I sure would like to see that.

    Thank you, Tomlane

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Tomlane View Post
      You stated:


      Would please show us from scripture where it says a person receives initial forgiveness? I sure would like to see that.

      Thank you, Tomlane
      thank you for posting
      acts 2:38

      38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


      as i said we are assuming in this thread that the act of water baptism is where we recieve forgiveness and that we arent forgiven until we get in the water. ( i personally dont believe this but i am playing "devils advocate")

      Comment


      • #4
        reformedct

        LOL, OK I understand Reformedct, I'll keep my big mouth shut.

        I understand now and thanks. I'll keep looking an see what kind of comments you get.

        Have a good and and may the Lord bless your efforts, Tomlane

        Comment


        • #5
          God forgave everyones sins regardless of Baptism or not. I think there was this guy called Jesus that had something to do with that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by embankmentlb View Post
            God forgave everyones sins regardless of Baptism or not. I think there was this guy called Jesus that had something to do with that.
            Amen. God doesn't need the aid of the mikvah to save us.

            15 characters
            Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by embankmentlb View Post
              God forgave everyones sins regardless of Baptism or not. I think there was this guy called Jesus that had something to do with that.

              lol as i said i fully agree but i am playing devils advocate.


              i have yet to get an answer on this. if we are literally not forgiven until water baptism, how come we dont follow through and get water baptised everytime we sin afterwards? all of the sudden we dont need water to forgive us?

              still waiting for an answer...im sure someone has a good argument though...

              Comment


              • #8
                Just a Thought

                As most any physical ordinance found in Judaism, just about everyone of them was repeated over an over because they were not a permanent solution except for circumcision and had to do with being a symbol of being cut off from the world and being holy. All ordinances including circumcision were a type or shadow of Christ. Now that we have the reality of Christ and have his finished work for us as a one time cure for all time we have no need for anything other then spiritual baptism for we indeed worship in spirit and not ordinances that were nailed to the cross and abolished that never did satisfy God for the forgiveness of sin. God demands blood for sin {death} and only Christ's keeping the law perfectly for us made it possible for Him to be a perfectly white {sinless} with out spot or blemish sacrifice to be slaughtered for our sins and take our place and become guilty for our sins. Water baptism was strictly a Jewish ordinance for a public show of repentance if a Jew believed their promised Messiah was soon coming. John had been foretold about his coming in the wilderness to prepare for their promised one. Water never saved anyone and only got them wet and that is all it does today. In fact water baptism done today as an outward sign of an inward work. God says that is a sin, because that is never found in any of God's instructions for salvation or that we should worship in symbolism.

                Romans 14:23 *And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

                Romans 10:17 *So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


                Sorry I couldn't keep it in any longer. lol

                Tomlane

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why would you want to play the 'devil's advocate' on a Christian site? SofTy.
                  1 Corinthians 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

                  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptised in the name of Paul?

                  KJV

                  May the power of the Spirit of our God unite us. SofTy.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ServantofTruth View Post
                    Why would you want to play the 'devil's advocate' on a Christian site? SofTy.
                    LOL your right. i am playing advocate for those who believe that we arent forgiven until water baptism

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      still waiting.......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sure I'll bite... so I guess the first thing to cover is how do we get forgiveness of sins once we are a Christian?

                        I think the answer to that question can be found in Acts 8:13-24 for now we will just notice verses 18-ff which states:

                        "And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
                        23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. 24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the LORD for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me."


                        Sorry if its hard to read... I went rather quickly I'll check back later let me know if you need any clarification I am sure its not to easy to read since I posted so quickly... anyway hope to talk more soon.


                        So I think we can all agree that once we are a Christian like Simon here we are to repent and pray to God for forgiveness of our sins. Because even after we obey we sin and fall short just as Simon did in this passage.


                        On to part two so does God hear the prayers of everyone? In short the answer is NO. We can see this from passages such as John 9:31; Psalm 34:5 66:18; Proverbs 15:29, 28:9; Isa 1:15; etc;



                        "31Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."


                        "5The eyes of the LORD are toward the righteous And His ears are open to their cry."


                        Those two should do you can read the other passages as well if you'd like. However the 2nd point is God doesn't hear the prayers of the unrightous or those of sinners... I think based upon these passages we can agree upon that.


                        So how do we get this avenue of prayer so we can ask for forgivness of sins that we mentioned in part1 up top?


                        Part 3 to get there we must obey the gospel and do what God requires of us. Obviously we have to hear the word Rom 10:14-17 states that...


                        Note vs 17 "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God."


                        We have to believe that which we have heard if we don't have faith we can't be pleasing unto God. Heb 11:6


                        "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."


                        We can't be pleasing unto God without faith.


                        We must confess Christ as Lord... Rom 10:10; Matt 10:32



                        "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."


                        "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven."


                        We must repent Acts 17:30, 2nd Peter 3:9


                        "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"


                        "...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."


                        So far we can see we have to hear the word, believe it, confess Christ, and repent. The last phase would be to be baptized.


                        1st Peter 3:20-21


                        "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"


                        We see baptism saves us... just like confession (...confession is made unto salvation...) and its not just getting wet etc its answering God with a good conscience.


                        Also note Acts 22:16 "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."


                        We see here that Paul is told to be baptized and wash his sins away confessing Christ.



                        So what does this do once we hear the word believe it and obey it with confession, repentance, and baptism?


                        We are made a new creature Rom 6:1-8 we see that we that when we are baptized we kill out old man of sinfulness and unrightousness that God wouldn't hear in part to. Into newness of life, we are a new creature if you will a Christian. Our old man of sin is gone at this point according to the Paul here in Rom 6. We have put on Christ as stated in Gal 3:27 and are a new creature 2nd Cor 5:16-18 once again we kill the old man and are a new creature our old life of sin passes away.


                        So at this point if we sin and fall short we no longer need water to cleanse of our sins through the blood of Christ. We have the avenue of prayer for that now.


                        Once again look at Acts 8:13-ff we see Simon obeyed believed and was baptized... but then he fell short... and what did the aposltes tell him to do? Be baptized again? No... to pray for forgiveness... however before you have that avenue of prayer we are first forgiven by obeying the gospel of Christ.
                        Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

                        I use Linux because I don't like Windows

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by reformedct View Post
                          In this thread WE WILL ASSUME THAT WATER BAPTISM IS THE MEANS THROUGH WHICH CHRISTIANS RECIEVE INITIAL FORGIVENESS OF SINS.(if you would like to argue wether water baptism is the means through which forgiveness is given please vist the other thread open on that subject)

                          now, if forgiveness of sins is had upon water baptism, should we get water baptised everytime we sin afterwards, or simply confess sins. please use Scripture to support either position. if we can be forgiven afterward withoutw water what does that say about the water?
                          Baptism is a one-time event at conversion - after conversion if we continue to walk in the light we have cleansing in His blood...
                          But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
                          What the NT says of baptism in water is that it is a burial – the old man of sin goes into the water a sinner and through the operation of the Holy Spirit the sins of the old man are remitted by the blood of Christ. The new born man rises up out of the water a new creature in Christ Jesus - the body of sin destroyed. After baptism the new born man in Christ continues to “walk in the light as he is in the light” and the blood of Christ cleanses him of ALL SIN.
                          Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6:3-6 (KJV)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            How is their forgivenss?

                            Doesn't the Bible state that without the 'shedding' of Blood.. there will be no 'forgiveness'

                            Whose Blood was shed on Calvary?

                            isn't Forgivenss granted thru the Shed Blood of Jesus the Christ..

                            or have we made the 'forgiveness of sins' linked to and based on sacramental works...

                            Baptism done by a born again believer from Above will be done thru Obedience to the Word...

                            Forgiveness comes thru His Shed Blood and the Sprinkling of it ......
                            Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
                            ------------------------------------------------
                            Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
                            ------------------------------------------------
                            The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
                            Jeremiah 31:3

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by losthorizon View Post
                              Baptism is a one-time event at conversion - after conversion if we continue to walk in the light we have cleansing in His blood...
                              But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
                              What the NT says of baptism in water is that it is a burial – the old man of sin goes into the water a sinner and through the operation of the Holy Spirit the sins of the old man are remitted by the blood of Christ. The new born man rises up out of the water a new creature in Christ Jesus - the body of sin destroyed. After baptism the new born man in Christ continues to “walk in the light as he is in the light” and the blood of Christ cleanses him of ALL SIN.
                              Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6:3-6 (KJV)
                              RIGHT ON!!!

                              The 1 John1:7 passage in the Greek indicates this a continual cleansing as long as one "walks in the light".

                              But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

                              Though some have the theology that baptism is not "required" for forgiveness, we cannot ignore what the Scripture says about it. Notably it is God Who forgives, as we walkout the faith (which includes baptism) we have in Jesus, our Messiah.

                              Blessings,
                              BHS

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