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  • Tongues/Filled with the Holy Spirit

    Hi.

    I would like to bring up the rather controversial topics of ‘speaking in tongues’ and being ‘filled with the spirit’.

    I have an open mind on both matters.

    Some say tongues were a gift only for the early church. Can someone explain why this is believed to be correct? (Scriptural references would be helpful). I cannot see anywhere where such a limit would be placed on the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but would welcome input from all sides on this one. I understand that many feel pressure to ‘speak in tongues’ and may therefore speak whatever comes in to their heads, and relevant arguments regarding hypnosis, but I am interested in the scriptural basis for talking in tongues for the present day and not other side issues.

    In relation to being filled with the spirit, I would like to ask if there are any who believe that this ‘filling’ is spiritual, psychological, hypnosis or something truly from God.
    There is a lot of grey area here. Feelings of euphoria of this nature can apparently be replicated in ‘the lab’, unconnected with religious experience.
    My question here is twofold. Firstly, the scriptural basis for ongoing filling of this nature and secondly, is this hypnotherapy or God.

    I have chosen the bible chat area of the forum, as I would like to base replies in scripture, but would welcome information on independent studies of such matters.

    Can whoever replies try to check their own prejudices regarding such matters and deal in facts and scripture only.
    I want to avoid a heated argument or any disrespect for opposing views. Ie discuss the topic showing respect to all views in this matter.

    Ulp!!!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Open View Post
    Hi.

    I would like to bring up the rather controversial topics of ‘speaking in tongues’ and being ‘filled with the spirit’.

    I have an open mind on both matters.

    Some say tongues were a gift only for the early church. Can someone explain why this is believed to be correct? (Scriptural references would be helpful). I cannot see anywhere where such a limit would be placed on the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but would welcome input from all sides on this one. I understand that many feel pressure to ‘speak in tongues’ and may therefore speak whatever comes in to their heads, and relevant arguments regarding hypnosis, but I am interested in the scriptural basis for talking in tongues for the present day and not other side issues.

    In relation to being filled with the spirit, I would like to ask if there are any who believe that this ‘filling’ is spiritual, psychological, hypnosis or something truly from God.
    There is a lot of grey area here. Feelings of euphoria of this nature can apparently be replicated in ‘the lab’, unconnected with religious experience.
    My question here is twofold. Firstly, the scriptural basis for ongoing filling of this nature and secondly, is this hypnotherapy or God.

    I have chosen the bible chat area of the forum, as I would like to base replies in scripture, but would welcome information on independent studies of such matters.

    Can whoever replies try to check their own prejudices regarding such matters and deal in facts and scripture only.
    I want to avoid a heated argument or any disrespect for opposing views. Ie discuss the topic showing respect to all views in this matter.

    Ulp!!!
    Mark 16:17, And thses signs WILL follow those who believe:In my name they WILL cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues.
    Joel 2:28-29, 1 Cor 12.
    Here is what i believe based on scripture, unless God specifically says that it will or has ceased in the Bible, it still is available.
    As far as the baptism of the Holy Spirit it still happens and the power that comes along with it cannot be imitated in a lab. You are filled for a purpose, it is not a feeling, that is our emotions, now i am not denying that emotions sometimes cannot be involved when it happens, but it is a noticeable and visible and a verifiable change in a person nature and demeanor. But with this topic there are gonna a hundred post debating the original greek and hebrew language.
    Matthew 7:7-8, Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

    Comment


    • #3
      Speaking in tongues is the evidence the Bible uses for one being filled with (baptised in) the Holy Spirit
      Acts 2:4
      Acts 10:46
      Acts 19:6
      Jesus is the One who baptises believers in the Holy Spirit
      John 1:33
      He called this baptism "the promise of the Father"
      Acts 1:5
      Peter said that this promise was for all of us...
      Acts 2:39
      When we are given details of someones baptism in the Spirit in the Bible-tongues are always there.
      Acts 2:4
      Acts 10:46
      Acts 19:6
      Jesus is the same forever
      Hebrews 13:8
      this is NOT the gift of tongues-the gifts are for the church gathered
      1 Corinthians 14:4
      Most tongues are for speaking to God-not man.
      1 Corinthians 14:2
      They are for the building up of our faith.
      1 Corinthians 14:4
      when they are spoken forth as a Spiritual gift-they are accompained by the gift of interpretation so that the church can be edified-built up.
      1 Corinthians 14:4
      Not all are used in the Spiritual gift of tongues (for public use)
      1 Corithians 12:30
      Tongues will cease when Jesus returns and we know as we are known
      1 Corinthians 13:8

      Comment


      • #4
        Call me one who believes that speaking in tongues is still around. However, I also do not believe it is a gift given to everyone.

        Personally, I hold to the verse in acts that says when the holy spirit has come upon you, you will have power to be my witnesses. Power is the sign of filling of the Holy Spirit and that is sometimes accompanied with speaking in tongues.
        Matt 9:13
        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
        NASU

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
          Call me one who believes that speaking in tongues is still around. However, I also do not believe it is a gift given to everyone.

          Personally, I hold to the verse in acts that says when the holy spirit has come upon you, you will have power to be my witnesses. Power is the sign of filling of the Holy Spirit and that is sometimes accompanied with speaking in tongues.
          Acts 1:8 great verse. Would you agree that the gift of tongues is available to everyone who seeks it though? In my own experience i had received the baptism before without speaking in tongues. But about a year later i started speaking in tongues after i had prayed for it. I was one of those ones where God had to literally hand deliver the gift to me you know what i mean, big flashing neon signs and such. And since in prayer life i have noticed a monumental change.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by cross crusader View Post
            Acts 1:8 great verse. Would you agree that the gift of tongues is available to everyone who seeks it though? In my own experience i had received the baptism before without speaking in tongues. But about a year later i started speaking in tongues after i had prayed for it. I was one of those ones where God had to literally hand deliver the gift to me you know what i mean, big flashing neon signs and such.
            I hear you! I think all can be filled/baptized with the holy Spirit. But I can't get by Acts 1 that tells us exactly what the sign of being baptized is and I can't get the verse in Corinthians that says "not all speak with tongues" when referring to gifts.

            Having said that, I will not be one to break fellowship over such a doctrine either.

            And yes, I know what you mean about the neon sign thing. God can shout if he has to.
            Matt 9:13
            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
            NASU

            Comment


            • #7
              I believe in speaking in tongues and other gifts of the Holy Spirit. I think that godsgirl pretty much covered any of the verses I would've posted.

              1Cor 13:9-10

              9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

              Some people believe that the above verse is an indication that the "which is perfect has come" is refering to the bible. I believe that it is actually talking about Jesus. When Jesus comes again, there will be no need for the gifts. When He left, He sent us the Holy Spirit (along with the gifts of the Spirit.) When He returns, those gifts will then cease.

              The only other verse I'd like to add is 1Cor14:39 (added emphasis mine.)

              39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.

              As for being filled with the Holy Spirit, I agree with cross crusader. It can be emotional, but it was a spiritual life changing event for me. My walk with Christ before I was filled with the Holy Spirit doesn't even hold a candle to what it is now.

              May He guide you in your journey to the Truth.

              Blessings,
              Tami (always learning, continually growing, constantly seeking)

              Revelation 19:13 "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Open View Post
                Hi.

                I would like to bring up the rather controversial topics of ‘speaking in tongues’ and being ‘filled with the spirit’.

                I have an open mind on both matters.

                Some say tongues were a gift only for the early church. Can someone explain why this is believed to be correct? (Scriptural references would be helpful). I cannot see anywhere where such a limit would be placed on the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but would welcome input from all sides on this one. I understand that many feel pressure to ‘speak in tongues’ and may therefore speak whatever comes in to their heads, and relevant arguments regarding hypnosis, but I am interested in the scriptural basis for talking in tongues for the present day and not other side issues.

                In relation to being filled with the spirit, I would like to ask if there are any who believe that this ‘filling’ is spiritual, psychological, hypnosis or something truly from God.
                There is a lot of grey area here. Feelings of euphoria of this nature can apparently be replicated in ‘the lab’, unconnected with religious experience.
                My question here is twofold. Firstly, the scriptural basis for ongoing filling of this nature and secondly, is this hypnotherapy or God.

                I have chosen the bible chat area of the forum, as I would like to base replies in scripture, but would welcome information on independent studies of such matters.

                Can whoever replies try to check their own prejudices regarding such matters and deal in facts and scripture only.
                I want to avoid a heated argument or any disrespect for opposing views. Ie discuss the topic showing respect to all views in this matter.

                Ulp!!!
                Greetings,

                The following link is to an excellent article by James Frye. I hope it will be beneficial for you. Blessings, RW

                http://www.mydoctrine.com/Tongues.HTM

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just to make this thread interesting and post something that's going to be used eventually anyway . . .

                  1 Corinthians 13:8
                  Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.



                  Take that you bunch of charismatics!!!
                  "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                  -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
                    Just make this thread interesting and post something that's going to be used eventually anyway . . .






                    Take that you bunch of charismatics!!!
                    LOL! It's already been used in the article posted above. But I am still waiting for that which is perfect to come before that prophesy is fulfilled.
                    Matt 9:13
                    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                    NASU

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Open,

                      May I ask questions? I believe in the speaking of tongues, but taking a step back and overlooking its use today has raised alot of questions.

                      Isn't it true that when they spoke in tongues the first time, they were declaring the wonderful works of God in foreign languages?

                      Isn't it also true that speaking in tongues was a sign for the unbelievers, not for believers?

                      Isn't it true that when one speaks in tongues, there are to be two or three and an interpreter while others judge what was given?

                      Isn't it true that when speaking in tongues with an interpretor is done properly, it is so that the whole body may profit withal from the knowledge of Jesus shared so that our love may abound yet more and more?

                      Isn't it also true that in present day use of speaking in tongues, nothing has been shared to edify the body of believers in the knowledge of Jesus? I have not heard nor seen any collections of reports of tongues with an interpretor done properly being handed out to all the churches.

                      Isn't it also true that if finally some church steps up to the plate to published the continuance of the New Testament, would what be shared not be found already in the New Testament?

                      Is it also true that prophesying was to be sought more than speaking in tongues? Why are believers seeking speaking in tongues more than anything else?

                      I find it so odd that for all those churches that claim to have speaking in tongues, none were alerted to the apostasy of the Promise Keepers' movement nor the "holy laughter" movement that swept the nation in 1994, and yet I had to find discernment in the scriptures to expose them as such.

                      Anyway, my voiced skepticism on the use of speaking in tongues today.

                      As far as the filling of the Spirit, I believe it is a one time event as promised for all those that come to Jesus and not continual. People that do this type of seeking are changing the way they worship after a rudiment of the world in how the world seek to receive another spirit by seeing it.

                      What do the scriptures say?

                      John 6: 35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

                      And yet when people seek after the Holy Spirit, I have heard that they have a hunger for more of God.. for more of that experience, and yet that goes against the promise for all those that come to Jesus.

                      Are we not a new creature in Christ?

                      2 Corinthians 5: 17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

                      Would that not give meaning to the verse below?

                      Matthew 9: 17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

                      Thus we are sealed as His thus saved.

                      How is one born of the Spirit? Does it have to be with the way it was in the book of Acts when it served to bear witness of new believers after hearing the Gospel thus unbelievers would consider or marvel? What did Jesus say?

                      John 3: 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

                      Galatians 3: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

                      Hebrews 11: 1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

                      We receive the Spirit by obeying the commandment which are Jesus' invitations to Himself. Do note verse 17 in how the world receive other spirits.

                      John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

                      I honestly don't know how anyone cannot see this continual filling as preaching another spirit other than the one we had already received.

                      2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

                      I believe in the one time filling of the Holy Spirit which is the promise for all those that come to Jesus.

                      Ephesians 1: 12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

                      Anyway, I find the use of speaking in tongues as wanting as it never seems to muster the way it was being used in the early churches.

                      And the filling? One time event or else how can anyone say they are resting in Jesus or not hungering anymore for coming to Him?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'll answer your first few questions now, maybe the others later poor.

                        May I ask questions? I believe in the speaking of tongues, but taking a step back and overlooking its use today has raised alot of questions.

                        Isn't it true that when they spoke in tongues the first time, they were declaring the wonderful works of God in foreign languages?

                        Tis is true, BUT it doesn't say that they were speaking in the languages of the people in the street-it DOES say, that they all spoke at once-and that those around them HEARD them each in their own language.

                        Isn't it also true that speaking in tongues was a sign for the unbelievers, not for believers?

                        That's one purpose of tongues, but according to scripture it isn't the ONLY purpose. They are also used as prayer in the spirit-and as a message from God to the church.

                        Isn't it true that when one speaks in tongues, there are to be two or three and an interpreter while others judge what was given?

                        When one speaks out in a tongue (the gift of tongues) yes, there is to be the gift of interpretation-this though, is also a supernatural gift-it isn't merely understanding in the natural what it said.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                          I hear you! I think all can be filled/baptized with the holy Spirit. But I can't get by Acts 1 that tells us exactly what the sign of being baptized is and I can't get the verse in Corinthians that says "not all speak with tongues" when referring to gifts.

                          Having said that, I will not be one to break fellowship over such a doctrine either.

                          And yes, I know what you mean about the neon sign thing. God can shout if he has to.

                          The baptism in the Spirit is for power-but the Bible still shows that the way we know we've received is the ability to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enables us to speak.

                          How did the Jewish believers know that the gentiles had received-it wasn't because they began have power (and how would you know that anyway)-it was "for we heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God" Acts 10:46

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
                            The baptism in the Spirit is for power-but the Bible still shows that the way we know we've received is the ability to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enables us to speak.

                            How did the Jewish believers know that the gentiles had received-it wasn't because they began have power (and how would you know that anyway)-it was "for we heard them speaking in tongues and glorifying God" Acts 10:46
                            Right. But tongues can be a sign of power. However, every time Peter was filled, he did not speak in tongues. But every time he was filled, he did have power.
                            Matt 9:13
                            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                            NASU

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks RogerW for providing the link on an article by James Frye. It pretty much confirmed my suspicions on the use of tongues today.

                              Comment

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