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Pastor says I'm not blessed for not tithing and giving seed...

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  • Pastor says I'm not blessed for not tithing and giving seed...

    On another forum, I had a huge conversation with other Christians about tithing and today. As you can imagine, there were many opinions and biblical discussions over the topic. Many of the more well known people on that board were saying that Malachi (the part about "robbing God by not giving tithes and offerings") was directly being spoken to the Levitical priests and not the people.

    This isn't about whether or not people should give tithes and especially offerings, or "seed offerings", but more about whether or not God requires such things before He chooses to bless a Christian. The "if you sow little, you'll reap little, if you sow abundantly, you will reap abundantly, and you reap what you sow...".

    So, I feel like I will never be blessed if I DON'T give tithes or if I DON'T "sow a seed" and that just seem like such a conditional thing. The way I see it, our own earthly fathers don't require us to do things for them, yet they are glad to supply us with all we need and then some, if they are able. And if they ARE able, they love us so much that they would give us as much as they could, within reason, of course. So what is it with the teaching that God doesn't bless people without us first giving a "seed of faith"?

    I stopped giving tithes after the other Christian forum chat because it started seeming more to me like a man initiated rule and not God's.

    As far as "receiving a blessing" when you tithe or give seed, many of you know my story of how my wife turned her back on God, on me and the marriage, and filed for divorce. Even though I was trusting God the whole time and tithing, I went from a 3 bedroom house in the suburbs to a single bedroom apartment in the center city. She received a ~$150K check from her dad's estate. . . . . . I didn't see any blessings. I have my pride, but it doesn't make purchases.

    What is your thoughts on this?

    Thanks!
    "Don't fret or worry. Instead of worrying, pray. Let petitions and praises shape your worries into prayers, letting God know your concerns. Before you know it, a sense of God's wholeness, everything coming together for good, will come and settle you down. It's wonderful what happens when Christ displaces worry at the center of your life." Philippians 4:6-7 (The Message)

  • #2
    This is the reason I left my church when I was back in America. My pastor taught about one thing and one thing only and that was tithing. He would say it was the only way to gurantee blessings and what not.

    I gave up tithing and now see it as an evil with some people. I truly believe you are not required to give now that we are not bound to the old testament. I will give to my future storehouse that teaches me and brings me closer to Christ out of Love for Christ not just for the "Blessings" that I am guranteed.

    ***Sorry not much of an anwswer, more of an added rant. Thanks for listening***
    I love you more than words could say.
    You're stuck with me again today!
    So wake up, silly sleepy head!
    It's time for you to get out of bed,
    Open your eyes, for goodness sake!
    I want to talk to my Dan-el cake!
    ~Becky~ aka Beckisted

    Comment


    • #3
      Just for discussion sake and it might be too personal and if so then don't answer. How much would you say that you give percentage wise?


      Visit our new website
      ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

      A.W. Tozer said,
      "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

      GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

      Comment


      • #4
        I see that ProjectPeter has already touched on what I want to say. So I'll say it anyway

        In the vary scripture that you brought up concerning, you sow little you reap little... it also says this:

        2 Cor 9:6-7

        6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

        Now, who is to say what a person can give generously. If your income barely pays all the bills, pays for all the necessary needs for life (food, shelter etc) and all that's left over is a dollar at the end of the month... just imagine how joyful God would be if you gave that final dollar to Him.

        Mark 12:41-43
        The Widow's Offering

        41Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins,[a]worth only a fraction of a penny.[b] 43Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others.


        This is what I mean by giving that final dollar.


        Granted tithes should be given to God first but if the situation that I generated in this post caused a person to buy less food for the family or not be able to pay for the water/electric/gas utilities... I can't imagine God "not" understanding a tithe that is less then 10%. Not many give a full 10% but what you give should be of a happy heart.


        That dollar in this situation is 100% of all that can be given back to God.


        Slug1--out

        ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Magnetic View Post
          What is your thoughts on this?

          Thanks!
          My thoughts... that more is going on here than just giving.

          He knows how you feel and why you feel the way you do. He can be trusted. He has good plans for your well being. One things about the fire, it often is intended to only burn that which binds us.
          Matt 9:13
          13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
          NASU

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
            Just for discussion sake and it might be too personal and if so then don't answer. How much would you say that you give percentage wise?
            Currently, I don't give any tithe (because of the discussion I mentioned). Not being under Old Testiment Law, that the tithe was an every 3 year thing for people, that their tithe should be brought and consumed by the tither.

            Now, I have given when I have felt moved to.

            And as far as my own finances, I COULD give it and it not hurt my ability to eat. It's more about whether it is a command to the church today. . . . and if, just by giving tithe or giving a "seed", God will bless you financially more because of your giving. My church reads testimony cards about how someone started tithing and was blessed somehow (usually financial, but not always), and also our church is in a building phase (because the youth have exploaded and they need room, which is a good reason to build),. . . . . but they'll read about how someone "planted a seed for more than they thought they could and how they either got a bonus, raise, or something else that allowed them to pay their seed". In other words, they sowed generously and then reaped generously.

            But this may be an exception and not the norm. I would say that most people, who make a seed promise, will not see any extra money come in, but will have to do away with some other thing that they would have spent their money on (which may not be a bad thing), movies, eating out, . . . . .or may find themselves figuring out how to pay the bills at the same time. Was their faith not as good as the person who got a raise/bonus?

            I will be honest. I'm being completely open and entirely human now. When I look at "giving the tithe", and I give on the before tax amount, when I figure up what that is at the end of the year, . . . . . it can be substantial. . . . . . . . . . but then, my church does help a lot of people and do outreaches to the community. . . . . . . . . .but then, the pastor does live in a gated community. . . . . . . . but he IS a good pastor and lived paycheck to paycheck in the past . . . and having a good living isn't wrong.........

            My brain is in overdrive on this issue, as you may very well tell.
            "Don't fret or worry. Instead of worrying, pray. Let petitions and praises shape your worries into prayers, letting God know your concerns. Before you know it, a sense of God's wholeness, everything coming together for good, will come and settle you down. It's wonderful what happens when Christ displaces worry at the center of your life." Philippians 4:6-7 (The Message)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Magnetic View Post
              My brain is in overdrive on this issue, as you may very well tell.
              IMO, you are so concerned about what's going on around you and with what you're money will be used for... that it's impossible for you to give with a happy heart. I don't expect anything in return, I don't care what the pastor does with the money... it's not my money any longer at this point. Granted I'd be upset if the money was abused in some way but that is between such a pastor and God and if the pastor didn't correct the abuse, I'd move onto a new church.

              That's just me though but this is what I get after reading this post (even though I didn't quote the whole thing). Let your heart guide you, not your brain. I've always said if it's from the heart, it's from God. If it's from the brain it's you on your own.
              Slug1--out

              ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~

              Comment


              • #8
                Another experience.

                I've both done it and have lived through situations where there simply wasn't enough money and it became a choice between eating and tithing(my weekly grocery budget at the time for a family of three was less than $20).
                Nothing bad ever happened because of it.
                The times I have been able to tithe has a been a question of participating in the church/community mission, nothing else that in the real world would apply other than being blessed as a particpant in the common good.
                Now, I am pentioned by disablility, the income derived from money already tithed from, my church doesn't require it, yet, when I got my lump sum, I thoroughly enjoyed spending money on them, getting them a new sound system, getting parts and accessories for my fellow musicians and finally giving away a guitar just yesterday.
                In good taste, I decided never to divulge the amount.
                I went out of my way to work behind the scenes, but, they find out anyway...
                The point to be made is that God won't ever punish you for not being able to. He will never punish you for something you don't believe in.
                The tithe is also described as the tithe of your offering, it will never be anything but voluntary.
                Your problem is not a conflict with scripture, you really don't have a problem, you have a situation that you will endure with God's help, believe it or not, it all ends at some point.
                When everything is said and done, if you ever decide on the issue, it will be a question of participating in the local church's mission, whichever church that might be...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Tithing was a way to care for the levite priests in the OT.Do a search on the word Tithe and read every verse . It will open your eyes.

                  We have a new covenant now, where we are led by the Holy Spirit. Paul talks about giving in the church...and I would not attend any church where tithing was required, or equated with blessing.

                  However, God expects all of us. 100% of our time, resources, talents, $ etc.......If we are obedient to the Holy Spirit, yes God will bless us. If we ignore or disobey what the Holy Spirit is telling us, God will not bless us.

                  Alaina

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Magnetic View Post
                    Currently, I don't give any tithe (because of the discussion I mentioned). Not being under Old Testiment Law, that the tithe was an every 3 year thing for people, that their tithe should be brought and consumed by the tither.

                    Now, I have given when I have felt moved to.

                    And as far as my own finances, I COULD give it and it not hurt my ability to eat. It's more about whether it is a command to the church today. . . . and if, just by giving tithe or giving a "seed", God will bless you financially more because of your giving. My church reads testimony cards about how someone started tithing and was blessed somehow (usually financial, but not always), and also our church is in a building phase (because the youth have exploaded and they need room, which is a good reason to build),. . . . . but they'll read about how someone "planted a seed for more than they thought they could and how they either got a bonus, raise, or something else that allowed them to pay their seed". In other words, they sowed generously and then reaped generously.

                    But this may be an exception and not the norm. I would say that most people, who make a seed promise, will not see any extra money come in, but will have to do away with some other thing that they would have spent their money on (which may not be a bad thing), movies, eating out, . . . . .or may find themselves figuring out how to pay the bills at the same time. Was their faith not as good as the person who got a raise/bonus?

                    I will be honest. I'm being completely open and entirely human now. When I look at "giving the tithe", and I give on the before tax amount, when I figure up what that is at the end of the year, . . . . . it can be substantial. . . . . . . . . . but then, my church does help a lot of people and do outreaches to the community. . . . . . . . . .but then, the pastor does live in a gated community. . . . . . . . but he IS a good pastor and lived paycheck to paycheck in the past . . . and having a good living isn't wrong.........

                    My brain is in overdrive on this issue, as you may very well tell.
                    My point with you though... if you were to just guestimate... how much do you give (percentage wise)? Not talking about tithe or anything else we could call ritualistic save the act of giving itself for giving sake.


                    Visit our new website
                    ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                    A.W. Tozer said,
                    "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

                    GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't give anything on a weekly basis. When I was giving tithes, it was just over 10% of Gross.
                      "Don't fret or worry. Instead of worrying, pray. Let petitions and praises shape your worries into prayers, letting God know your concerns. Before you know it, a sense of God's wholeness, everything coming together for good, will come and settle you down. It's wonderful what happens when Christ displaces worry at the center of your life." Philippians 4:6-7 (The Message)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Magnetic View Post
                        I don't give anything on a weekly basis. When I was giving tithes, it was just over 10% of Gross.
                        So then you give rarely now and less than even ten percent... and you expect to be blessed why? Just because you believe?


                        Visit our new website
                        ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                        A.W. Tozer said,
                        "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

                        GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Magnetic View Post
                          So, I feel like I will never be blessed if I DON'T give tithes or if I DON'T "sow a seed" and that just seem like such a conditional thing. The way I see it, our own earthly fathers don't require us to do things for them, yet they are glad to supply us with all we need and then some, if they are able. And if they ARE able, they love us so much that they would give us as much as they could, within reason, of course. So what is it with the teaching that God doesn't bless people without us first giving a "seed of faith"?
                          Mag,

                          To me this comes back to the whole Law/Gospel hermaneutic that I see running thru the whole of scripture.

                          In your above example of a father giving to his kids, I think what is missing from that example is the issue of maturity. My 4 boys range in ages and maturity levels, so my expectations of their responsibilities and my giving of "blessings" differs for each one because of that. My love, of course, is equal for each one regardless of maturity level or age.

                          Now, lets put that in practical terms.

                          I expect my youngest to not be able to handle the responsibilities that the oldest can handle nor the blessings, i.e. like driving a car, dating, etc.
                          They are at different maturity levels.

                          Now, what I hope to foster as they mature is that they will not handle their responsibilities just so I will bless them but because they know I love them and they love me and want to do kind things to bless me. IOW, out of simple love they will want to wash the dishes, do laundry, cut grass, whatever.
                          Not that they won't want to be blessed also (that's natural to an extent I think) but mostly because they want to be a blessing back to me.

                          I think that is how we should view giving also. I want to bless God, by blessing others, because of what He did for me in giving Jesus. Not so I can get some material blessing (though God knows my needs and my wants and He is a giver I have absolutely no doubt) but just because I'm already blessed and I am following my Father's example. He is a selfless giver and that motivates, empowers and encourages me to give also (much more than just money we are talking about here but of course included).

                          That's how I view it anyway.
                          WDJD - what DID Jesus do

                          He died on a cross for our sin and rose from the dead,
                          securing, for all who believe, eternal life and forgiveness of sin

                          Toolman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                            So then you give rarely now and less than even ten percent... and you expect to be blessed why? Just because you believe?

                            Well, that would mean that God only blesses if you do something first. A conditional response. If you . . . . , then I will. . . . .

                            I have no problems with blessing people, and I understand what you and Toolman are saying. And have been considering the tithe again.

                            I think that I will do so, not expecting anything in return, though, because I DON'T deserve any blessings.
                            "Don't fret or worry. Instead of worrying, pray. Let petitions and praises shape your worries into prayers, letting God know your concerns. Before you know it, a sense of God's wholeness, everything coming together for good, will come and settle you down. It's wonderful what happens when Christ displaces worry at the center of your life." Philippians 4:6-7 (The Message)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Magnetic View Post
                              Well, that would mean that God only blesses if you do something first. A conditional response. If you . . . . , then I will. . . . .
                              And to me that goes back to the Law/Gospel hermaneutic.

                              The Law says "if you... then I (God) will...."

                              Whereas the Gospel says "I (God) will... then you will..", i.e. God enables, empowers and encourages us, by His grace and love, to work the works that He has called us to by already blessing us with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
                              WDJD - what DID Jesus do

                              He died on a cross for our sin and rose from the dead,
                              securing, for all who believe, eternal life and forgiveness of sin

                              Toolman

                              Comment

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