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  • glorifying violence and death

    How do we stop glorifying violence and death? Seems one way or another we continue to do this in some form or another.
    Or is it just the perception of people which brings this about? For instance we encourage strength, which can lead to violence or at least aggressiveness. Or when people die for what we believe to be a just cause we glorify it to further motivate others to follow suit.

    I'm in a conflict about this. Whether it be Christians or those who are not Christians. I believe we are doing something wrong.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Teke View Post
    How do we stop glorifying violence and death? Seems one way or another we continue to do this in some form or another.
    Or is it just the perception of people which brings this about? For instance we encourage strength, which can lead to violence or at least aggressiveness. Or when people die for what we believe to be a just cause we glorify it to further motivate others to follow suit.

    I'm in a conflict about this. Whether it be Christians or those who are not Christians. I believe we are doing something wrong.
    In my opinion people who are deeply conscious of their own mortality are less likely to glorify violence and death (compare the soldier with many years on the battlefield to the new recruit).

    The glorification of violence and death goes hand in hand with a basic implicit belief that "I" am never going to die. I mean this in the sense that younger people take risks because they basically don't believe anything is going to happen to them. Older people stop taking those risks because death is more real to them.

    If you really want to stop the glorification of that, you really have to instill in people a deep sense of their own mortality.

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    • #3
      Video games! Make sure they don't make any violent ones!

      OK, in all seriousness I feel that western society today is much less violent than it was in the past, and I attribute the change in attitude to Christianity. That doesn't mean that we might have some time periods when violence is on the uptick, but on the whole we are much more civilized than we used to be.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by punk View Post
        In my opinion people who are deeply conscious of their own mortality are less likely to glorify violence and death (compare the soldier with many years on the battlefield to the new recruit).

        The glorification of violence and death goes hand in hand with a basic implicit belief that "I" am never going to die. I mean this in the sense that younger people take risks because they basically don't believe anything is going to happen to them. Older people stop taking those risks because death is more real to them.

        If you really want to stop the glorification of that, you really have to instill in people a deep sense of their own mortality.
        What you've posted also answered another question that in the past I hadn't thought about. The curriculum for children of the Eastern Orthodox Church includes a psychological chart for growth. When going over it once, I noticed for 3 and 4 yr olds it stated this is the age they become aware of death at. And I wondered how they came to this conclusion.

        One day, during the course of everyday life, when my 3 yr old grandson was visiting, he took a rock and killed a lizard with it (of course he had no idea what he was doing). I recall he was perplexed why the lizard didn't get up and run away afterward. And I remember trying to explain to him the reason.

        Can a deep sense of mortality be instilled, or would it be more likely degrees depending on the individual and circumstances.
        For instance, it would seem likely that those who live where much violence and death occur would be well aware of their mortality. Yet the glory of death seems greater than the preservation of life.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Fenris View Post
          Video games! Make sure they don't make any violent ones!

          OK, in all seriousness I feel that western society today is much less violent than it was in the past, and I attribute the change in attitude to Christianity. That doesn't mean that we might have some time periods when violence is on the uptick, but on the whole we are much more civilized than we used to be.
          What TV can do before they are even old enough for video games is just as bad.

          Then you think the more civilized the less violent. If by civilized you mean respective of others, I can see how that would help.

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          • #6
            If you really want to stop the glorification of that, you really have to instill in people a deep sense of their own mortality.[/quote]
            Powerful statement

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            • #7
              There are violent cultures on this earth that embrace death.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Teke View Post
                What you've posted also answered another question that in the past I hadn't thought about. The curriculum for children of the Eastern Orthodox Church includes a psychological chart for growth. When going over it once, I noticed for 3 and 4 yr olds it stated this is the age they become aware of death at. And I wondered how they came to this conclusion.

                One day, during the course of everyday life, when my 3 yr old grandson was visiting, he took a rock and killed a lizard with it (of course he had no idea what he was doing). I recall he was perplexed why the lizard didn't get up and run away afterward. And I remember trying to explain to him the reason.

                Can a deep sense of mortality be instilled, or would it be more likely degrees depending on the individual and circumstances.
                For instance, it would seem likely that those who live where much violence and death occur would be well aware of their mortality. Yet the glory of death seems greater than the preservation of life.
                I think there are different levels of awareness of death.

                First there is the level of realizing that other things die (so you kill the lizard and it doesn't come back).

                Second there is a sort of factual awareness that you yourself are going to die (but the genuine reality of death hasn't quite hit home)

                Third there is the awareness of the fact that you yourself are going to die (with the full existential import of that being realized).

                Most people at two will still be glorifying violence, it is getting to 3 that puts violence in a different light.

                Unfortunately a lot of this really amounts to life experience, so it isn't exactly something you are going to teach.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                  There are violent cultures on this earth that embrace death.
                  Well there is something healthy about being able to embrace death as just part of life and mitigating the fear of it to some extent.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by punk View Post
                    Well there is something healthy about being able to embrace death as just part of life and mitigating the fear of it to some extent.
                    Like Christian martyrs as role models.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by punk View Post
                      Well there is something healthy about being able to embrace death as just part of life and mitigating the fear of it to some extent.
                      Right, no argument. But these people look forward to death, provided they can kill some of the enemy with them.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                        Right, no argument. But these people look forward to death, provided they can kill some of the enemy with them.
                        Well any good soldier is prepared to die, and an effective tactic is an effective tactic...

                        Besides, I have a certain admiration for the kamikaze, so why not for the people you are referring to?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Teke View Post
                          Like Christian martyrs as role models.
                          Unfortunately martyrdom doesn't exactly go well with the blessings from God most contemporary churches promise believers.

                          If you want your church to grow, saying things like: "Join us and our God will make your life a lot worse!" doesn't help.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by punk View Post
                            Besides, I have a certain admiration for the kamikaze, so why not for the people you are referring to?
                            Kamikazes attacked hard targets- warships.

                            Suicide bombers go for soft targets- unarmed civilians.

                            To me it looks like a major difference.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Fenris View Post
                              Kamikazes attacked hard targets- warships.

                              Suicide bombers go for soft targets- unarmed civilians.

                              To me it looks like a major difference.
                              It seems to me that since the US and UK conducted mass bombing raids against cities in Germany and Japan, civilians have been perfectly good targets.

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