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  • Speaking the truth about sin...

    There seems to be a lot of people willing to speak about others sin. This would be a very long post if I named off all the verses that concern this habit. Instead, I thought I would quote a few and then see where it goes.

    1 Peter 2:1-3

    2 Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander, 2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, 3 if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.
    NASU

    The KJV translate "evil speakings" where the NASB translates it as "slander".

    One of my favorite verses concerning judging is in Matt about the speck and log. Until we truly have the log out of our eye concerning that brother/sister, we should refrain from "helping".
    Another interesting passage is that love covers a multitude of sin. Is it OK to go around and name the sins of others? Oh, if God calls something a sin, then by all means let us call it that too! We definitely need to call a spade a spade.

    I suppose where we can get down to the nitty gritty... if a preacher's lifestyle doesn't set well with us, do we have a right to say anything at all about that life style? Now, if scripture speaks against that life style, can we then say something about? Yes. But I see a lot of gray areas concerning the issue of lifestyle that others do not.

    Anyway, one last verse to think on...

    James 3:10-12
    10 Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. 11 Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? 12 Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.
    NKJV

    When we speak ill of another brother, we are cursing them. When we speak well of them, we are blessing them. Let us not curse and bless because from the abundance of the heart do these things come.

    When another's sin is pointed out, we should know that except for the grace of God, there go I.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  • #2
    Some people like how the act of doing this makes them feel not so bad about their own sin. They do not like the idea that someone maybe more like Christ, closer to Christ, or more mature in Christ than they are. They even get offended at anyone that can do more than they can in Christ's name. So they tare them down to keep them on a level playing field instead of praying that they go even further in their faith.

    They cannot reach the goal that they want, so they blame those around them for it. And become bitter about their faith and teach others to do the same thing.

    In spiritual warfare, these actions open the door for Satan to work in a Christian's life. It also invites several spirits of oppression to work with their attitude of destruction of others. It also opens their life to be subject to reaping what they have sown unto others. And God will not allow a Christian to grow in the body of Christ when their intent is the destruction, and tare down of the others within it.

    So they complain and refuse to see the error of their own ways. And they are quick to point fingers at others but are quick to hide if someone points out things about their lifestyle, and their secret sins. They use their own personal justification for sins they like to commit, but are quick to judge another for their sins and claim there is no justification for them.

    They walk around with information memorized in their heads about others in the body of Christ whom they disapprove of. And they can re site this information like a computer and twist it as they add their own opinions for more effect. They do not care that their attempts to tare down others also make some fall away. Only that their message is loud and clear. They must be heard, in their minds. And their destruction of others is justified by saying that their sins are worse than anything they ever did.

    They will even go as far as to say or imply that others in the body of Christ work for Satan. And claim that any gift they have is demonic, even though they refuse to see that any demonic gift can never produce fruit of the kingdom. For can Satan work against Satan and his kingdom still stand?

    mt 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

    mk 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

    lk 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

    And what did Christ say about judging a ministry and those who run it?

    mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    The standard in which we are judging others, are we also willing to apply this to our own lives?

    Where we seem to draw the line about what we think a ministry to do, may not be the same place where God draws the line. Why? We are not perfect, so God has to leave leeway. And if our leeway does not match God's leeway, then we are destroying what God is trying to use.

    Example: If God is using a ministry to bring thousands to the kingdom. And His leeway allows it. But we have a more strict leeway, and speak bad things in an attempt to tare it down. Who are we working against when God's leeway allows it?

    This is why God says: mt 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    A ministry not approved by God, through His leeway for us because of our imperfection, cannot produce "any" fruit of the kingdom. And ministries that cannot produce fruit because God does not approve (because they go beyond His leeway), will try and counterfeit the fruit of the kingdom by making themselves as gods. This is when a ministry turns into a cult, and basically does the work of Satan.

    So if you judge by the fruit a ministry produces, then you are in-line with God's leeway because the fruit of the kingdom is God's approval. And if you allow your own thoughts of right and wrong to do the judging, then you replace God as the righteous judge, and work against God. For when we get to heaven, will there be a judgement throne for you? I think not. So why are we judging people as if we are the righteous judge, when God never gave us that authority?

    Now some may ask: Why does God allow what I deem as deception in a ministry? Because faith, the confession of it, and grace is all that is needed for salvation.

    Why do you think the thousand year reign Christ will rule with a rod? The rod is the correction of what we thought was truth, but is not. And it will take a thousand years to straighten us out. So the correction for truth of where a ministry errs, and people err concerning truth about the word of God, will be corrected by Christ in the thousand year reign. Not by us, because we are not supposed to take that task. For did Christ give us the rod of correction of others in the body of Christ? Nope.

    When we become shepherds, we tend our sheep. The sheep is our congregation, and our correction is upon them and no other. Taring down other shepherds is also taring down what God has allowed to be an authoritative figure. To what verse do we say that God has given us such power to work against what He has appointed?

    Well they preach against some things I believe: So what. Can you be 100% sure that what you believe is correct? And can you name any other person, besides Christ, that can preach a perfect sermon every time?

    Example: What if God judged all preachers by your standards? And then judged you with those same standards. Would you fare any better? Your hope is that God will have mercy upon you on judgement day, but are not willing to extend that same mercy to others who can err just as you do. So what is it that makes us want to judge another by a standard we refuse to place upon ourselves?

    Are we really that much better than the ones we condemn and tare down?
    Note: By request I can only post and see the tech section of this forum. So don't respond to my posts in the other sections because I cannot see them so I cannot respond. You can PM me if you need to.
    My site: http://www.yecheadquarters.org/

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    • #3
      I wonder why this thread is dead?
      Note: By request I can only post and see the tech section of this forum. So don't respond to my posts in the other sections because I cannot see them so I cannot respond. You can PM me if you need to.
      My site: http://www.yecheadquarters.org/

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      • #4
        I don't know. Perhaps my initial post was too long.
        Matt 9:13
        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
        NASU

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        • #5
          I agree with both of you. I think you may have given people much to think about.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
            I don't know. Perhaps my initial post was too long.
            LOL. I highly doubt that. I think it's the salt that you brought. Thank you for it though. Salt may sting, but it also brings healing.
            Tami (always learning, continually growing, constantly seeking)

            Revelation 19:13 "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

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            • #7
              I suppose if one thinks that another 1000 years is going to be given to "straighten us out" that they might not see the reason to point to those who are trying to lead them astray. However if that 1000 yr period of time is NOW, then straighten we must!
              Robin

              Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
              And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
              Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
              Those who compromise with Christís enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mograce2U View Post
                I suppose if one thinks that another 1000 years is going to be given to "straighten us out" that they might not see the reason to point to those who are trying to lead them astray. However if that 1000 yr period of time is NOW, then straighten we must!
                Oh, we are not called to straighten them out! Now, if we are in relationship with someone, and are more spiritual, and see them overcome in a fault, then in humility, we try and restore them. In private first as scripture commands.

                God will clean up his church.
                Matt 9:13
                13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                NASU

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                  Oh, we are not called to straighten them out! Now, if we are in relationship with someone, and are more spiritual, and see them overcome in a fault, then in humility, we try and restore them. In private first as scripture commands.

                  God will clean up his church.
                  Have you noticed how He intends to do that? See the church at Thyatira.
                  Robin

                  Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
                  And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
                  Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
                  Those who compromise with Christís enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mograce2U View Post
                    Have you noticed how He intends to do that? See the church at Thyatira.
                    The way he always has done it.
                    Matt 9:13
                    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                    NASU

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mograce2U View Post
                      I suppose if one thinks that another 1000 years is going to be given to "straighten us out" that they might not see the reason to point to those who are trying to lead them astray. However if that 1000 yr period of time is NOW, then straighten we must!
                      And if God is trying to show them the error of their ways, and has granted them time in which to see it. And we tare them down while God works with them. Then their sin becomes our sin because we won't grant them time, and help out God's work with prayer.

                      For what will we say when the behind the curtain works of what God was trying to do in this person's life is revealed, then we find that we totally messed that up? What will we say?

                      Is it a sin to pray for those who err?
                      Note: By request I can only post and see the tech section of this forum. So don't respond to my posts in the other sections because I cannot see them so I cannot respond. You can PM me if you need to.
                      My site: http://www.yecheadquarters.org/

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ikester7579 View Post
                        And if God is trying to show them the error of their ways, and has granted them time in which to see it. And we tare them down while God works with them. Then their sin becomes our sin because we won't grant them time, and help out God's work with prayer.

                        For what will we say when the behind the curtain works of what God was trying to do in this person's life is revealed, then we find that we totally messed that up? What will we say?

                        Is it a sin to pray for those who err?
                        It was Jezebel who was given space to repent which she did not. So who was supposed to tell her children about her errors to warn them? John was given this task. And in fact the judgment given against her & her children, would be a warning to all the churches as it was the thing by which they would know the Lord had done it. So I see that we also ought to warn those caught up in such things and pray for judgment upon those who try to seduce others to evil. The goal being to help them overcome evil with good.
                        Robin

                        Truth is so obscure in these times and falsehood so established that, unless one loves the truth, he cannot know it. - Blaise Pascal
                        And Jesus saith unto him [Thomas], I am the way the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6
                        Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford
                        Those who compromise with Christís enemies may be reckoned with them. - C.H. Spurgeon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          How about praying for mercy for them, forgiving them, and that God will lead them to the truth? I see lots of pointing out sin, but it is being done without love. If not for God's mercy, I know I would have gone to you know where a long time ago. Seems many on this board have forgotten where they came from.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lyndie View Post
                            How about praying for mercy for them, forgiving them, and that God will lead them to the truth? I see lots of pointing out sin, but it is being done without love. If not for God's mercy, I know I would have gone to you know where a long time ago. Seems many on this board have forgotten where they came from.
                            Amen to that. Some people like to believe that they are somehow smarter or more discerning than their neighbor because they believe they are saved. My friends,if you are truly saved, it is because the Holy Spirit opened your eyes to the truth and drew you to him. It had nothing to do with your intelligence or discernment. Just thank God he chose to open your eyes and save you. You had nothing to do with it. We humans are all alike..far away from God and choosing to sin. We only come because HE DRAWS US. So

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mograce2U View Post
                              It was Jezebel who was given space to repent which she did not. So who was supposed to tell her children about her errors to warn them? John was given this task. And in fact the judgment given against her & her children, would be a warning to all the churches as it was the thing by which they would know the Lord had done it. So I see that we also ought to warn those caught up in such things and pray for judgment upon those who try to seduce others to evil. The goal being to help them overcome evil with good.
                              Can you explain how the so called evil ministries can produce the fruit of the kingdom?

                              Also why was Jezebel given space to repent? Was not this an example of how God works?

                              Also, pray for judgement upon those who seduce others to evil?

                              I believe in no-osas. I'm not sure what you believe, and this is an example not a debate. But what if I deem all osas people as evil who seduce others to evil and apply what you just said to that? Would that seem fair as I pray that judgement come upon about 60% of this forum because "I" deem osas as evil and "refuse" to pray for them to find truth?

                              And what if God starts to bring this judgement and many people suffer? What did I accomplish? Nothing, right?

                              But, both sides whether right or wrong do bring people to salvation, correct? So they both produce fruit of the kingdom, correct? So even if I disagree with osas, I'm not going to pray for judgement to come upon them because I can see God is allowing souls to be saved through it.

                              So what does that say? That the osas and no-osas is not a big enough deal that God would pull his blessing away from either of them.

                              So the word of faith believes something weird about the baptisms. God is allowing souls to be saved through those ministries. So the baptism misconception is not big deal to God, or He would have pulled His blessings away from them

                              So if I pray, as you suggest, and my prayer is out of order to God's will because I'm to high and mighty to see it. Then I can actually bring myself to be under the rath of God for allowing myself to do an action that is not fitting of a Christian to do.

                              It's like the issue about whether women should preach. If God is not in it because of disaproval, then how would they produce the fruit of the kingdom, without God?

                              Name one verse in God's word that says that Satan can:

                              1) Bless someone.
                              2) Bring someone to salvation.
                              3) Do the will of God.
                              4) Cause people to be healed.
                              etc...

                              Because if Satan cannot do it, then who do you think is? God cannot work through evil.
                              Note: By request I can only post and see the tech section of this forum. So don't respond to my posts in the other sections because I cannot see them so I cannot respond. You can PM me if you need to.
                              My site: http://www.yecheadquarters.org/

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