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  • Jesus reigns for one thousand years on earth

    Hi guys,

    John is told to measure the temple in Revelation so if he is measuring the temple does that not mean there is a temple built in Jerusalem and the Lord will reign from the seat of David.

    Revelation 11:1-3
    1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God,the altar, and those who worship there. 2But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

    So if this temple does not exist then the two witnesses don't exist and they won't be there witnessing for one thousand two hundred and sixty days before the Lord returns.

    The Lord comes back with His armies in Revelation 19:14-16 these armies are not earthly armies they are heavenly. These armies are the saints who have been washed clean in the blood of the Lamb.

    The Lord reigns from Jerusalem it is written there in black and white, we can not say He will not reign from Jerusalem. It is written in so many places in the bible that the Lord will return to Jerusalem and reign from there, God says it is His holy word and faithful and true,

    Zechariah 14:8
    8 And in that day it shall be
    That living waters shall flow from
    Jerusalem,
    Half of them toward the eastern sea
    And half of them toward the western sea;
    In both summer and winter it shall occur.

    9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth.
    In that day it shall be—
    “ The LORD is one,”
    And His name one.


    Amos 9:11-15
    11 “ On that day I will raise up
    The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down,
    And repair its damages;
    I will raise up its ruins,
    And rebuild it as in the days of old;
    12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,
    And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
    Says the LORD who does this thing.
    13 “ Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD,

    “ When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
    And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
    The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
    And all the hills shall flow with it.
    14 I will bring back the captives of My people
    Israel;
    They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;
    They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
    They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
    15 I will plant them in their land,
    And no longer shall they be pulled up
    From the land I have given them,”
    Says the LORD your God.


    Zechariah 8:23
    23 “Thus says the LORD of hosts: ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’”


    Micah 4:1
    1Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
    That the mountain of the LORD’s house
    Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
    And shall be exalted above the hills;
    And peoples shall flow to it.
    2 Many nations shall come and say,

    “ Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
    To the house of the God of Jacob;
    He will teach us His ways,
    And we shall walk in His paths.”
    For out of
    Zion the law shall go forth,
    And the word of the LORD from
    Jerusalem.
    3 He shall judge between many peoples,
    And rebuke strong nations afar off;
    They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
    And their spears into pruning hooks;
    Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
    Neither shall they learn war anymore.
    4 But everyone shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree,
    And no one shall make them afraid;
    For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.


    Acts 15:13-18
    13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:
    16 ‘ After this I will return
    And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
    I will rebuild its ruins,
    And I will set it up;
    17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD,
    Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
    Says the LORD who does all these things.’

    18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works.


    Joel 2:26,27
    26 You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied,
    And praise the name of the LORD your God,
    Who has dealt wondrously with you;
    And My people shall never be put to shame.
    27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of
    Israel:
    I am the LORD your God
    And there is no other.
    My people shall never be put to shame.


    How many verse do we need to show us that the Lord will reign from Jerusalem for 1000yrs, it is a physical reign, then after the thousand years He hands the kingdom over to His Father.
    Last edited by quiet dove; Nov 23rd 2007, 04:18 PM. Reason: iffy comments removed
    John 8:31-32



    31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


    Dizzy

  • #2
    New Jerusalem

    Would you agree that from the following scriptures that The Jerusalem that Jesus reigns from is the New Jerusalem?

    Zech 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

    Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


    Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

    Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

    Is 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

    Is 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

    2 Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven And a new earth: for the first heaven And the first earth were passed away; And there was no more sea.
    Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


    Do we believe Gods promise?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DIZZY View Post
      Hi guys,

      John is told to measure the temple in Revelation so if he is measuring the temple does that not mean there is a temple built in Jerusalem and the Lord will reign from the seat of David.

      Revelation 11:1-3
      1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God,the altar, and those who worship there. 2But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

      So if this temple does not exist then the two witnesses don't exist and they won't be there witnessing for one thousand two hundred and sixty days before the Lord returns.
      How many illustrations from the OT temple and services etc. can you spot being used in the book of Revelation to show us the truth symbolically?

      Do you really think that all of the Christians whose lives measure up to the standard of the rod of the angel, will fit in a stone temple in Jerusalem??

      To be outside of the Holy Place at that time (as worshippers of God) is to be trampled under foot as worthless salt, and it will not be only in Jerusalem either according to the 5th and 6th trumpet of Rev.9.



      The Lord comes back with His armies in Revelation 19:14-16 these armies are not earthly armies they are heavenly. These armies are the saints who have been washed clean in the blood of the Lamb.

      The Lord reigns from Jerusalem it is written there in black and white, we can not say He will not reign from Jerusalem. It is written in so many places in the bible that the Lord will return to Jerusalem and reign from there, so are we to ignore what is written when God says it is His holy word and faithful and true, to ignore the truth is to turn your back on the truth of God's word.
      We must be discerning as to which Jerusalem Christ will reign from, but yes His reign starts from there in the middle east.

      God has already set His King upon His Throne in His Holy Hill and according to Psalm 2 it has been accomplished before the nations decide to rebel against it.--

      Rev 3:21 The one overcoming, I will give to him to sit with Me in My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father in His throne.
      Psa 2:4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; the Lord shall mock at them.
      Psa 2:5 Then He will speak to them in His anger, and He will terrify them in His wrath;
      Psa 2:6 Yea, I have set My king on My holy mount on Zion.
      Zechariah 14:8
      8 And in that day it shall be
      That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
      Half of them toward the eastern sea
      And half of them toward the western sea;
      In both summer and winter it shall occur.
      9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth.
      In that day it shall be—
      “ The LORD is one,”
      And His name one.
      This Jerusalem is the Holy Mountain of God, the New Jerusalem from above which comes down --

      Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, coming forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
      Rev 22:2 In the midst of its street and of the river, from here and from there, was a tree of life producing twelve fruits: according to one month each yielding its fruit. And the leaves of the tree were for healing of the nations.
      Rev 22:3 And every curse will no longer be. And the throne of God and the Lamb will be in it; and His slaves will serve Him.
      Rev 22:4 And they will see His face; (only in the New Jerusalem)
      and His name will be on their foreheads.

      Amos 9:11-15
      11 “ On that day I will raise up
      The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down,
      And repair its damages;
      I will raise up its ruins,
      And rebuild it as in the days of old;
      12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
      Says the LORD who does this thing.
      13 “ Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD,
      God had restored the Tabernacle of David when He provided His Presence to dwell among His people and they meet Him in it as David did today, BEFORE Solomons Temple as the House of the Lord was established which DOES speak of the completed House of the Lord at the resurrection of all saints.

      “ When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
      And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
      The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
      And all the hills shall flow with it.
      14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
      They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;
      They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
      They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
      15 I will plant them in their land,
      And no longer shall they be pulled up
      From the land I have given them,”
      Says the LORD your God.
      This speaks of the children of the Bride of Christ who is the Heavenly Zion at the end of this age called to inhabit the millennium mortaly Rev.7 Is 49.

      Zechariah 8:23
      23 “Thus says the LORD of hosts: ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’”
      The true Jew is the sanctified Christian, whether Jew or Gentile of the flesh.

      Micah 4:
      1Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
      That the mountain of the LORD’s house
      Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
      And shall be exalted above the hills;
      And peoples shall flow to it.
      2 Many nations shall come and say,

      “ Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
      To the house of the God of Jacob;
      He will teach us His ways,
      And we shall walk in His paths.”
      For out of Zion the law shall go forth,
      And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
      3 He shall judge between many peoples,
      And rebuke strong nations afar off;
      They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
      And their spears into pruning hooks;
      Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
      Neither shall they learn war anymore.
      4 But everyone shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree,
      And no one shall make them afraid;
      For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.
      The rulership of the resurrected saints will not be restricted to the area of old Jerusalem--

      Zep 3:19 Behold, at that time I will deal with all those who afflict you. And I will save her who is lame, and gather her who was thrust out. And I will give them for a praise and for a name in all the land of their shame.
      Zep 3:20 In that time I will bring you, even in the time I gather you. For I will give you for a name and for a praise among all the peoples of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, says Jehovah.


      .

      Joel 2:26,27
      26 You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied,
      And praise the name of the LORD your God,
      Who has dealt wondrously with you;
      And My people shall never be put to shame.
      27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel:
      I am the LORD your God
      And there is no other.
      My people shall never be put to shame.
      Gods people are all believers in Christ regardless of race. 1 Peter ch 2.

      How many verse do we need to show us that the Lord will reign from
      Jerusalem for 1000yrs, it is a physical reign, then after the thousand years He hands the kingdom over to His Father.
      If you mean by hands on by resurrected people then I would agree but men are presently killing one another thinking that they can inherit Gods promises by it, and by this they will inherit exactly nothing from God except their own banishment --

      Gen 9:6 Whoever sheds man's blood, his blood shall be shed by man. For He made man in the image of God.
      Rev 13:10 If anyone gathers captivity, into captivity he goes. If anyone will kill by a sword, by a sword he must be killed. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

      Rev 18:24
      And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all the ones having been slain on the earth.

      Merton.
      One can know a lot about the Bible and still not live righteously. Mat ch 23.

      A little knowledge lived rightly is better that much knowledge lived wrongly.

      Comment


      • #4
        Measuring is done when one is to be built again.

        The pattens for the holy things are given first.

        Such as the holy things that Moses made and David.

        Ezekiel wrote as to seeing one with a reed measuring for a pattern of a new temple. He was to show the house to the house of Israel.
        let them measure the pattern

        Ezekiel 40 and 43:10
        http://prophecyinsights.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
          Would you agree that from the following scriptures that The Jerusalem that Jesus reigns from is the New Jerusalem?

          Zech 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

          Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


          Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

          Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

          Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

          Is 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

          Is 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

          2 Pet 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

          Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven And a new earth: for the first heaven And the first earth were passed away; And there was no more sea.
          Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


          Do we believe Gods promise?
          Yes I believe God's promise. it helps if we put the verses where they belong the first two verses are talking about and earthly Jerusalem where e sets up the earthly temple and the latter verses are talking about the New Jeruslem when the new heavens and the new earth have been created and yes He reigns from both.
          John 8:31-32



          31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


          Dizzy

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DIZZY View Post
            Yes I believe God's promise. it helps if we put the verses where they belong the first two verses are talking about and earthly Jerusalem where e sets up the earthly temple and the latter verses are talking about the New Jeruslem when the new heavens and the new earth have been created and yes He reigns from both.
            Are there two rivers of life?

            Are there two thrones of God?

            Why would we reign from two Jerusalems, since it will only be those that belong to God that dwell there?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
              Are there two rivers of life?

              Are there two thrones of God?

              Why would we reign from two Jerusalems, since it will only be those that belong to God that dwell there?
              I don't think it is both at the same time but one before the other. At least that is how I understand it.


              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by vinsight4u8 View Post
                Measuring is done when one is to be built again.

                The pattens for the holy things are given first.

                Such as the holy things that Moses made and David.

                Ezekiel wrote as to seeing one with a reed measuring for a pattern of a new temple. He was to show the house to the house of Israel.
                let them measure the pattern

                Ezekiel 40 and 43:10
                Hi vinsight4u8,
                Measurement was also used for judgment and owner ship. God measures out judgment and He also has Jerusalem measured out showing that He owns the area and He is leaving the outer court to the Gentiles.
                John 8:31-32



                31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


                Dizzy

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Bible does not say Jesus will reign for one thousand years. The Bible says the saints who take part in the resurrection will reign with Christ for a thousand years. Jesus, on the other hand, has an eternal reign.

                  The Bible also never says Jesus will set up a third temple. Jesus prophecied the destruction of the second temple, being the temple that was standing in His day (the temple He was standing outside of when He made the prophecy), but nothing mentions Him building a third temple, since He is the "third" temple.

                  Responses to the quotes from the OP (in order):

                  The passage from Revelation that is quoted says nothing in regards to Jesus' reign, and it says nothing in regards to the thousand years.

                  The passage from Zechariah is taken out of context. Zechariah 14 says nothing of a limited rule. In fact, it says that after the day of the LORD the survivors of the enemies of Jerusalem will come back each year to pay homage to God. The one-thousand-year rule of Jesus that is being proposed is suspecting that each and every enemy of God is destroyed from the earth, but such an idea contradicts what Zechariah says, if Zechariah 14 can be applied to the "day of the Lord" that we see near the end of the Revelation book.

                  If the prophecy of Amos is referring to a rebuilding of a temple as a result of Jesus, remember how Jesus said "Tear down this temple and I will rebuild it in three days"? Jesus was referring to Himself as the temple. Jesus became our "third" temple. As a result, Amos, considering he was a prophet before the time of the exile to Babylon, either spoke of the future destruction and rebuilding of Solomon's Temple, the first temple, or else his words could be seen as prophecies of Jesus' words that He is the temple.

                  The small verse taken from Zechariah 8 has nothing directly to do with a thousand-year reign of Christ. So people grab a Jew by the arm and say "God is with you"? Read Judges, where the Angel of the LORD tells Gideon that God is with him. He wasn't speaking of God physically being with Gideon, but rather that God was with him, for him, allied to him, so that Gideon and the Israelites would have God with them when they fought the Midianites.

                  Micah speaks of "the latter days." Other OT prophets speak of "the last days" or "the latter days." In Acts 2, when Peter speaks to the people, defending the Holy Spirit that had just been poured upon Jesus' disciples, Peter outright quotes the prophet Joel, saying "In the last days God will pour out His Spirit on all people." Peter was declaring that those days, the days that the disciples of Jesus received the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, were the last days does that mean the Revelation began in the days of the disciples? I'm one who believes so.

                  Acts 15, which quotes the above passage from Amos, can definitely be seen as referring to Jesus being the "fallen tent" or "ruins" that was to be rebuilt, in that by rebuilding "it" the Gentiles would come to seek God, which pretty much only really happened after Jesus' ministry. It has nothing directly to do with a thousand year reign.

                  The passage from Joel that was quoted says nothing directly about the thousand year reign, but interestingly it immediately precedes the section that Peter quoted in Acts 2, the passage that Peter said had come to pass in his day.

                  Most of the verses quoted in the OP have almost nothing to say about a thousand year reign, and none of them mention a physical rule of Christ. Some (but not all) mention God ruling as King, but none of them say anything about God physically being with the people.
                  To This Day

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                    Are there two rivers of life?

                    Are there two thrones of God?

                    Why would we reign from two Jerusalems, since it will only be those that belong to God that dwell there?
                    Technically Jesus Christ is the living waters so where He is the river will flow, whether here on earth or in heaven, so to answer your question in regards to the river of life. There is only one river of life and that is Christ and whoever drinks from Him shall have eternal life.

                    Jeremiah 17:13
                    O LORD, the hope of Israel, all who forsake you will be put to shame. Those who turn away from you will be written in the dust because they have forsaken the LORD, the spring of living water.

                    Zechariah 14:8
                    On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter.

                    John 4:10
                    Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

                    Revelation 7:17
                    For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

                    Revelation 21:6
                    6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

                    While Christ reigns from the earth His throne is there, the throne shows that He is King, He has all authority in heaven and on earth. Spiritually speaking whereever Christ is reigning from yes His throne is there.

                    The Bible says He will reign over His people in Jerusalem in the millennial reign, which means He is King over the earth. Therefore if He is King does that not mean He would have a throne to rule from.

                    Zechariah 14:16
                    16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

                    Isaiah 9:7
                    Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.

                    Isaiah 16:5
                    5 In love a throne will be established; in faithfulness a man will sit on it— one from the house of David— one who in judging seeks justice and speeds the cause of righteousness.

                    Matthew 19:28
                    Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

                    We are told when Christ renews the earth He will sit on His glorious throne and rule over Israel and the nations.

                    Luke 1:31-33
                    31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

                    The Lord because He is the Son of Man will also rule over the earthly kingdom for it was promised to Him before He was born. Christ will reign from Jerusalem from David's throne.

                    Then when all is destroyed and there is a new heaven, a new earth and a new Jerusalem the Lord God and the Lamb will dwell with us and there will be no night. The Lord God shall be our light and the Lamb shall be a lamp to us.

                    Revelation 21:22-25
                    22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.

                    Why would we reign from two Jerusalems, since it will only be those that belong to God that dwell there?
                    I believe we will be reigning with Christ from Jerusalem in the Millennial reign (1000yr). I have not found scripture as yet that says we will reign from the new Jerusalem, most of the scripture I have looked at speaks of us reigning from earth which I believe is in the Millennial reign.

                    So in answer to your question. No we only reign from the earthly Jerusalem during the Millennial reign. We do not reign from the heavenly Jerusalem, we will be serving the Lord God and the Lamb.
                    John 8:31-32



                    31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


                    Dizzy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DIZZY View Post
                      Technically Jesus Christ is the living waters so where He is the river will flow, whether here on earth or in heaven, so to answer your question in regards to the river of life. There is only one river of life and that is Christ and whoever drinks from Him shall have eternal life.

                      Jeremiah 17:13
                      O LORD, the hope of Israel, all who forsake you will be put to shame. Those who turn away from you will be written in the dust because they have forsaken the LORD, the spring of living water.

                      Zechariah 14:8
                      On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter.

                      John 4:10
                      Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

                      Revelation 7:17
                      For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

                      Revelation 21:6
                      6He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

                      While Christ reigns from the earth His throne is there, the throne shows that He is King, He has all authority in heaven and on earth. Spiritually speaking whereever Christ is reigning from yes His throne is there.

                      The Bible says He will reign over His people in Jerusalem in the millennial reign, which means He is King over the earth. Therefore if He is King does that not mean He would have a throne to rule from.

                      Zechariah 14:16
                      16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

                      Isaiah 9:7
                      Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.

                      Isaiah 16:5
                      5 In love a throne will be established; in faithfulness a man will sit on it— one from the house of David— one who in judging seeks justice and speeds the cause of righteousness.

                      Matthew 19:28
                      Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

                      We are told when Christ renews the earth He will sit on His glorious throne and rule over Israel and the nations.

                      Luke 1:31-33
                      31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

                      The Lord because He is the Son of Man will also rule over the earthly kingdom for it was promised to Him before He was born. Christ will reign from Jerusalem from David's throne.

                      Then when all is destroyed and there is a new heaven, a new earth and a new Jerusalem the Lord God and the Lamb will dwell with us and there will be no night. The Lord God shall be our light and the Lamb shall be a lamp to us.

                      Revelation 21:22-25
                      22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.



                      I believe we will be reigning with Christ from Jerusalem in the Millennial reign (1000yr). I have not found scripture as yet that says we will reign from the new Jerusalem, most of the scripture I have looked at speaks of us reigning from earth which I believe is in the Millennial reign.

                      So in answer to your question. No we only reign from the earthly Jerusalem during the Millennial reign. We do not reign from the heavenly Jerusalem, we will be serving the Lord God and the Lamb.
                      From the following scripture, who is it that reigns from the heavenly Jerusalem?

                      King James Version Revelation 22

                      1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

                      2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

                      3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

                      4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

                      5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

                      According to the following which kingdom will the saints posses after the return of Christ and judgment?

                      Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

                      Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

                      Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

                      Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

                      We know as it is written that this earth shall be no more when Christ returns, so if he reigns in Jerusalem on this present earth with his saints and not in the New Jerusalem, does that agree with the word of God?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [quote=Firstfruits;1450217]From the following scripture, who is it that reigns from the heavenly Jerusalem?

                        King James Version Revelation 22

                        1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

                        2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

                        3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

                        4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

                        5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
                        I believe it says that God and the Lamb shall be on the throne and His servants serve Him. It is possible that we will be more than servants we will reign with Him in the New Jerusalem.

                        These verses above can not be paired with the verses below for they speak of two different subjects. The above one speaks of the Heavenly Jerusalem. The below verses speak of the earthly Jerusalem.


                        According to the following which kingdom will the saints posses after the return of Christ and judgment?
                        In answer to this question I believe the saints will posses the earthly Kingdom after Christ judges the nations. I am not talking about His bride (The Churvh), I am talking about those saints that were alive when Christ returned. Those who survived the Great Tribulation AKA the Israelites, the tribe of Judah who put their faith and trust in the Lord they will posses the land. They will serve the Lord as witnesses to the nations. Only those Gentiles who put their faith and trust in the lord will survive and live in the Millennial kingdom with the above mentioned people.

                        Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

                        Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

                        Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

                        Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

                        We know as it is written that this earth shall be no more when Christ returns, so if he reigns in Jerusalem on this present earth with his saints and not in the New Jerusalem, does that agree with the word of God?
                        Yes it does agree with God for He will reign from this earth for 1000yrs and then He will destroy this earth and create a New Heaven and a New Earth and a New Jerusalem and He will reign over all.

                        What we must realizing is that Christ will physically reign from Jerusalem on this earth in the Millennial reign, and His saints will reign with Him physically in their new improved bodies.

                        Then there is the heavenly Jerusalem where Christ the Lamb and the Lord God will reign once agin I believe we might be reigning with Christ in the New Jerusalem aswell.

                        Revelation is speaking of the heavenly reign, while Daniel is speaking of the earthly reign.
                        John 8:31-32



                        31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


                        Dizzy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DIZZY View Post
                          Revelation is speaking of the heavenly reign, while Daniel is speaking of the earthly reign.
                          Daniel doesn't speak of a temporal thousand yr. kingdom or a temporal thousand yr. reign. But he speaks of an eternal kingdom and an eternal reign:

                          Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

                          Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

                          Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.


                          Shirley

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ShirleyFord View Post
                            Daniel doesn't speak of a temporal thousand yr. kingdom or a temporal thousand yr. reign. But he speaks of an eternal kingdom and an eternal reign:

                            Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

                            Dan 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

                            Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.


                            Shirley
                            We can not just pick out verses and make them to suit our beliefs, we must look at them in context. Daniel had a vision and the vision was about the end of times and the beast that persecutes the saints and blasphems the God.


                            Daniel 7:
                            11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
                            13 “ I was watching in the night visions,
                            And behold, One like the Son of Man,
                            Coming with the clouds of heaven!
                            He came to the Ancient of Days,
                            And they brought Him near before Him.
                            14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
                            His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
                            Which shall not pass away,
                            And His kingdom the one
                            Which shall not be destroyed
                            .

                            This earthly kingdom shall be destroyed, but the Lord's dominion is everlasting, His eternal kingdom shall never be destroyed.
                            Daniel’s Visions Interpreted

                            15 “I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things: 17 ‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four kingswhich arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’

                            This is a kingdom that the saints will posses forever it will never return
                            into the hands of the wicked.

                            19 “Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.
                            21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

                            This is the earthly kingdom that the saints inherit. Yes their eternal kingdom is everlasting but this verse is speaking about the earthly kingdom.

                            23 “Thus he said:


                            ‘ The fourth beast shall be
                            A fourth kingdom on earth,

                            Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
                            And shall devour the whole earth,
                            Trample it and break it in pieces.
                            24 The ten horns are ten kings
                            Who shall arise from this kingdom.
                            And another shall rise after them;
                            He shall be different from the first ones,
                            And shall subdue three kings.
                            25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
                            Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
                            And shall intend to change times and law.
                            Then the saints shall be given into his hand
                            For a time and times and half a time.


                            The Lord returns and gives the kingdoms (meaning all the lands of the earth shall be given) to the saints.

                            26 ‘ But the court shall be seated,
                            And they shall take away his dominion,
                            To consume and destroy it forever.
                            27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
                            And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
                            Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
                            His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
                            And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’


                            This is where every thing under the whole heaven is handed over to the saints. They once again will witness to the nations that remain after Christ destroys the beast and his followers. We must realize there will be gentile nations going into the Millennial kingdom, the Israelites will lead the peoples to their God. Zech 8:23


                            28 “This is the end of the account. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly troubled me, and my countenance changed; but I kept the matter in my heart.”

                            Daniel was troubled ny the vision He saw, He saw a vision of the end times and the destruction of the beast and all that followed him. This is why it was so troubling to Daniel. He knew if God has given him this vision then that is what will happen, he had experienced this many times when he interpreted dreams for others.
                            John 8:31-32



                            31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


                            Dizzy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DIZZY View Post
                              We can not just pick out verses and make them to suit our beliefs, we must look at them in context. Daniel had a vision and the vision was about the end of times and the beast that persecutes the saints and blasphems the God.


                              Daniel 7:
                              11 “I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
                              13 “ I was watching in the night visions,
                              And behold, One like the Son of Man,
                              Coming with the clouds of heaven!
                              He came to the Ancient of Days,
                              And they brought Him near before Him.
                              14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
                              His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
                              Which shall not pass away,
                              And His kingdom the one
                              Which shall not be destroyed.

                              This earthly kingdom shall be destroyed, but the Lord's dominion is everlasting, His eternal kingdom shall never be destroyed.
                              Daniel’s Visions Interpreted

                              15 “I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things: 17 ‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four kingswhich arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’

                              This is a kingdom that the saints will posses forever it will never return
                              into the hands of the wicked.

                              19 “Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.
                              21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

                              This is the earthly kingdom that the saints inherit. Yes their eternal kingdom is everlasting but this verse is speaking about the earthly kingdom.

                              23 “Thus he said:


                              ‘ The fourth beast shall be
                              A fourth kingdom on earth,
                              Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
                              And shall devour the whole earth,
                              Trample it and break it in pieces.
                              24 The ten horns are ten kings
                              Who shall arise from this kingdom.
                              And another shall rise after them;
                              He shall be different from the first ones,
                              And shall subdue three kings.
                              25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
                              Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
                              And shall intend to change times and law.
                              Then the saints shall be given into his hand
                              For a time and times and half a time.

                              The Lord returns and gives the kingdoms (meaning all the lands of the earth shall be given) to the saints.

                              26 ‘ But the court shall be seated,
                              And they shall take away his dominion,
                              To consume and destroy it forever.
                              27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
                              And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
                              Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
                              His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
                              And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’

                              This is where every thing under the whole heaven is handed over to the saints. They once again will witness to the nations that remain after Christ destroys the beast and his followers. We must realize there will be gentile nations going into the Millennial kingdom, the Israelites will lead the peoples to their God. Zech 8:23


                              28 “This is the end of the account. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly troubled me, and my countenance changed; but I kept the matter in my heart.”

                              Daniel was troubled ny the vision He saw, He saw a vision of the end times and the destruction of the beast and all that followed him. This is why it was so troubling to Daniel. He knew if God has given him this vision then that is what will happen, he had experienced this many times when he interpreted dreams for others.
                              None of these Scriptures you presented, Dizzy, speaks of an earthly millennial kingdom after the Second Coming of Christ.

                              Daniel 7 like Daniel 2 reveals to Israel the timing of the Coming of Israel's Messiah, which was at the First Coming of Christ.

                              Daniel 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.

                              32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,

                              1. Babylonian Kingdom - Head - Fine Gold
                              2. Mede-Persian Kingdom - Breast and Arms - Silver
                              3. Greecian Kingdom - Belly and Thighs - Brass

                              33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

                              4. Roman Kingdom - Legs and Feet - Iron and Clay



                              34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

                              5. The Kingdom of the Lord - A Stone that became a Mountain in the time of the 4th kingdom, the Roman Empire.

                              36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

                              37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.

                              38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. (Babylonian Kingdom)

                              39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee (Mede-Persian Kingdom), and another third kingdom of brass (Greecian Kingdom), which shall bear rule over all the earth.

                              40 And the fourth kingdom (The Roman Empire) shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
                              41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
                              42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
                              43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

                              Jesus sets up His Kingdom, the 5th Kingdom, during the Roman Empire when it is being ruled by its different kings:

                              44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

                              45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

                              In Daniel 7 we find the same 4 kingdoms plus the 5th kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ.

                              Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

                              4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

                              5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

                              6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

                              7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

                              16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.

                              17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

                              1. Babylonian Kingdom - Head - Fine Gold - Lion
                              2. Mede-Persian Kingdom - Breast and Arms - Silver - Bear
                              3. Greecian Kingdom - Belly and Thighs - Brass - Leopard
                              4. Roman Kingdom - Legs and Feet - Iron and Clay

                              Jesus received His kingdom, the fifth kingdom at His ascension in the days of the Roman Empire:

                              Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
                              14 And there (in heaven) was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.





                              Shirley

                              Comment

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