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  • Millenium Reign - Where?

    First let us see who are in the first resurrection, and reign with Christ a thousand years.

    Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, And they sat upon them, And judgment was given unto them: And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, And for the word of God, And which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; And they lived And reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    Although this scripture does not say where they dwell with Christ but as we look at the following scriptures we will see where they shall dwell with Christ.

    So we know who are in the group, so let us have a look at the next scripture.

    Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: And them that had gotten the victory over the beast, And over his image, And over his mark, And over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

    Where is the sea of glass located?
    Is this the same group as the first?

    If it is the same group then how did they get there according to the following scripture.

    Revelation 13:14,15
    14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    Now have a look at these scriptures:

    Revelation 6:9-11
    9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
    10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
    11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Where is the alter?
    Where shall they be resting?

    Revelation 7:9-17.
    9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
    10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
    11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
    12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
    13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
    15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
    16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
    17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

    Is this group seen to be in heaven or on earth?

    Again where is the golden alter?

    2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
    3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
    4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

    If all groups mentioned are the same, then the millenium reign must be in heaven, according to the scriptures.

    Firstfruits

  • #2
    FF, I believe that all of those Scriptures refer to the same group as Revelation 20:4.

    Jesus reigns bodily now in heaven over His kingdom.

    He now has all power, all authority, in heaven and in earth.

    Jesus reigns spiritually on earth today through His body, the Church.

    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    When God saves us, we have part in the first resurrection, the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ and we are translated spiritually into His heavenly kingdom.

    Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


    When we have part in Christ's resurrection, we are made alive spiritually and yet live even when we die physically, as we see the case in Revelation 20:4 with those who have died. I believe that the "thousand years" is symbolic of the period of time from the time of the ascension of Christ until His Second Coming.


    Shriley

    Comment


    • #3
      Which Jerusalem does Christ reign from in the millennial kingdom

      Hi Firstfruits,
      Let's put this in order according to what the scriptures say.

      Revelation 6:9-11
      9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
      10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
      11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

      As we look at the above verse we must remember that the earth is going through tribulation at this point. These saints under the alter are asking God to avenge their blood that had been spilt, they where martyred saints who have already come out of the tribulation. God informes them they must wait until their fellow servants and brethren are killed the same way as them. So they wait patiently for their fellow servants and brethren who are martyrd just as they were.

      Revelation 7:9-17
      9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
      10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
      11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
      12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
      13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
      14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
      15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
      16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
      17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

      These before the throne are those who have come out from under the altar and the rest of their fellow servants who had been martyred in the Great Tribulation and they all stand together before the throne.

      Revelation 8:1-5
      1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. 5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake.

      The only thing mentioned about the saints in these verses are that an angle is taking a golden censer and he was given incense and offered the incense with the prayers of the saints and it became an offering on the golden altar before the throne. The aroma of the incense and the prayers of the saints ascended before God. Then the angel took the same censer and threw it to the erath, which caused more devestation on the earth.

      Revelation 13:14,15
      14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
      15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

      These are those souls you see under the altar and then before the throne, they were martyred because they would not bow down to the beast or his image.


      Rev 15:2
      And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: And them that had gotten the victory over the beast, And over his image, And over his mark, And over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

      Why were they on this sea of glass? Because they could not enter the temple in heaven. Why? Because the temple was full of smoke from the glory of God and His power. Once God had finished pouring out His wrath on the earth then the temple is opened so the saints can go in. This you will notice from the below verses.

      Revelation 15:5-8
      5 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. 6 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues, clothed in pure bright linen, and having their chests girded with golden bands. 7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever. 8 The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.

      Now that the saints are able to enter heaven they are given thrones to reign from with the Lamb. But these thrones they reign from for one thousand years. This is the millennial reign from Jerusalem. For they return to the earth with the Lamb.

      Revelation 19:7,8
      Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

      Revelation 19:11-16
      11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

      KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

      The Lord gathers His bride and the martyred saints and returns to the earth to destroy the wicked.

      Revelation 19:17-21
      17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
      19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

      Zechariah 14:5
      Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, And all the saints with You.

      So the Lord returns with the saints He detroys the wicked with the ord that proceeds out of His mouth and He reigns with the saints from Jerusalem. The Lord regenerates the earth to its former glory and begins His millennial reign.

      Matthew 19:28
      So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

      During the time of the regeneration of the earth a person that lives to be one hundred yes of age is considered to be a child.

      Isaiah 65:20,21
      “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
      They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

      We know this is the earth where the Lord and the saints are reigning from, as we look and read this verse it tells us there is death still accuring. In the new Heaven, the new earth and new Jerusalem there is no death or sorrow no one grows old and there are no sinners. But whilst in Isaiah 65 God tells His people He will retsore the earth He also tells them He will create a new heaven, new earth and a new Jerusalem but enjoy what I create now.

      Isaiah 65:17,18
      17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
      And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
      For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
      And her people a joy.

      Rev 20:4
      And I saw thrones, And they sat upon them, And judgment was given unto them: And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, And for the word of God, And which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; And they lived And reigned with Christ a thousand years.

      After regenerating the earth we shall reign with the Lord and the Israelites once again shall become priests to the nations fore they will lead the nations to their God.

      Zechariah 8:23
      23 “Thus says the LORD of hosts: ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’”
      John 8:31-32



      31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


      Dizzy

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ShirleyFord View Post
        FF, I believe that all of those Scriptures refer to the same group as Revelation 20:4.

        Jesus reigns bodily now in heaven over His kingdom.

        He now has all power, all authority, in heaven and in earth.

        Jesus reigns spiritually on earth today through His body, the Church.

        Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

        When God saves us, we have part in the first resurrection, the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ and we are translated spiritually into His heavenly kingdom.

        Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


        When we have part in Christ's resurrection, we are made alive spiritually and yet live even when we die physically, as we see the case in Revelation 20:4 with those who have died. I believe that the "thousand years" is symbolic of the period of time from the time of the ascension of Christ until His Second Coming.


        Shriley
        Thanks Shirley

        Just one or two points I would like you to clarify. If the thousand years is symbolic does that also mean that satan being bound for a thousand years, where he cannot tempt anyone until the thousand years is complete, does that not mean that we are not being tempted of the devil and cannot be until Christ returns as they happen at the same time?

        Also after the thousand years are over is the final resurrection and judgment, again is this not to be?

        FF

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by DIZZY View Post
          Hi Firstfruits,
          Let's put this in order according to what the scriptures say.

          Revelation 6:9-11
          9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
          10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
          11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

          As we look at the above verse we must remember that the earth is going through tribulation at this point. These saints under the alter are asking God to avenge their blood that had been spilt, they where martyred saints who have already come out of the tribulation. God informes them they must wait until their fellow servants and brethren are killed the same way as them. So they wait patiently for their fellow servants and brethren who are martyrd just as they were.

          Revelation 7:9-17
          9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
          10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
          11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
          12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
          13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
          14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
          15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
          16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
          17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

          These before the throne are those who have come out from under the altar and the rest of their fellow servants who had been martyred in the Great Tribulation and they all stand together before the throne.

          Revelation 8:1-5
          1 When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. 5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake.

          The only thing mentioned about the saints in these verses are that an angle is taking a golden censer and he was given incense and offered the incense with the prayers of the saints and it became an offering on the golden altar before the throne. The aroma of the incense and the prayers of the saints ascended before God. Then the angel took the same censer and threw it to the erath, which caused more devestation on the earth.

          Revelation 13:14,15
          14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
          15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

          These are those souls you see under the altar and then before the throne, they were martyred because they would not bow down to the beast or his image.


          Rev 15:2
          And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: And them that had gotten the victory over the beast, And over his image, And over his mark, And over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

          Why were they on this sea of glass? Because they could not enter the temple in heaven. Why? Because the temple was full of smoke from the glory of God and His power. Once God had finished pouring out His wrath on the earth then the temple is opened so the saints can go in. This you will notice from the below verses.

          Revelation 15:5-8
          5 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. 6 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues, clothed in pure bright linen, and having their chests girded with golden bands. 7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever. 8 The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.

          Now that the saints are able to enter heaven they are given thrones to reign from with the Lamb. But these thrones they reign from for one thousand years. This is the millennial reign from Jerusalem. For they return to the earth with the Lamb.

          Revelation 19:7,8
          Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

          Revelation 19:11-16
          11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

          KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

          The Lord gathers His bride and the martyred saints and returns to the earth to destroy the wicked.

          Revelation 19:17-21
          17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
          19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

          Zechariah 14:5
          Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, And all the saints with You.

          So the Lord returns with the saints He detroys the wicked with the ord that proceeds out of His mouth and He reigns with the saints from Jerusalem. The Lord regenerates the earth to its former glory and begins His millennial reign.

          Matthew 19:28
          So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

          During the time of the regeneration of the earth a person that lives to be one hundred yes of age is considered to be a child.

          Isaiah 65:20,21
          “ No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
          They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

          We know this is the earth where the Lord and the saints are reigning from, as we look and read this verse it tells us there is death still accuring. In the new Heaven, the new earth and new Jerusalem there is no death or sorrow no one grows old and there are no sinners. But whilst in Isaiah 65 God tells His people He will retsore the earth He also tells them He will create a new heaven, new earth and a new Jerusalem but enjoy what I create now.

          Isaiah 65:17,18
          17 “ For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
          And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
          For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
          And her people a joy.

          Rev 20:4
          And I saw thrones, And they sat upon them, And judgment was given unto them: And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, And for the word of God, And which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; And they lived And reigned with Christ a thousand years.

          After regenerating the earth we shall reign with the Lord and the Israelites once again shall become priests to the nations fore they will lead the nations to their God.

          Zechariah 8:23
          23 “Thus says the LORD of hosts: ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’”
          Are there any scriptures that state that once the have been seen in heaven that they then are taken away from before the throne of God, to dwell upon this earth and not remain in heaven?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
            Thanks Shirley

            Just one or two points I would like you to clarify. If the thousand years is symbolic does that also mean that satan being bound for a thousand years, where he cannot tempt anyone until the thousand years is complete, does that not mean that we are not being tempted of the devil and cannot be until Christ returns as they happen at the same time?
            FF, the purpose of the binding of Satan by Jesus at Calvary was not to prevent him from tempting anyone or to render him helpless. The purpose of Satan's binding was for the purpose of getting the gospel out to the nations, the Gentiles, who had sat in darkness without hope as they were in absolute deception of the devil being bound by the devil.

            Rev. 20:3 " ...that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled..."



            Matt 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

            13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:

            14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

            15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;

            16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

            17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

            Isaiah 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.

            2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

            Paul relates to King Agrippa how the Lord called him:




            Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

            16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

            17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

            18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.




            Also after the thousand years are over is the final resurrection and judgment, again is this not to be?

            FF

            Our spiritual resurrection at the time we are saved occurs before we die and before the Second Coming of Christ. Our final resurrection, our eternal physical resurrection and the general judgement before the throne of God is at the Second Coming of Christ.


            Shirley

            Comment


            • #7
              Good post, Shirley.

              That is how I view it, too.

              I do however see a huge "darkness" once again, before the Lord comes, through the "at the end of the thousand years, he shall be loosed, to go out to deceive the nations once again".

              I beleive this is done through the apostacy, that was even already at work in it's beginnings in the days of Paul, as the mystery of iniquity, that we read of..and, now, in our day it has so influenced the "church" through "religion" that now, it is hard to even know what the true gospel is anymore....accept of course, through prayer and sincere seeking.


              The gospel has been masked, in other words, by the leavening of the pharasee's.

              That is why Jesus warned of that to occur to begin with.

              That leavening is so thick these days, that is it is very hard to get to even the very MILK of the word.


              I believe that the event that we call "satan loosed" has already occurred....and, we now stand at the very door of Jesus return, wherein He will put an end to it once and for all.


              Just my thoughts....


              janet

              Comment


              • #8
                Janet,

                The time of Satan's loosening is after the thousand years have expired. I don't believe the millennium has expired yet.

                Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

                8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


                I believe that this is Satan's little season, His final tribulation of wrath on the true Church just before the Second Coming of Christ.

                I also believe that 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13 is speaking about that same time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Janet,

                  The time of Satan's loosening is after the thousand years have expired. I don't believe the millennium has expired yet.
                  Hi Shirley, been in lurk mode for about 9 months.

                  It appears REV 20 is speaking to different "thousand years", one pertaining to the saints reigning with Christ "a thousand years" and one where Satan is bound "a thousand years".

                  I don't believe scripture teaches that our reign with Christ ever expires, unless it occurs at the 2nd coming when the kingdom is delivered up to the Father (1 COR 15: 23-26), but the time Satan is bound in the pit does expire.

                  Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

                  Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

                  Satan is loosed and gathers an army that encompasses the camp of the saints, who are either still reigning with Christ or they're not.

                  The "thousand years ( long time)" that the saints reign with Christ must be a different time period in length than the "thousand years" Satan is bound.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ltanner09 View Post
                    Hi Shirley, been in lurk mode for about 9 months.

                    It appears REV 20 is speaking to different "thousand years", one pertaining to the saints reigning with Christ "a thousand years" and one where Satan is bound "a thousand years".

                    I don't believe scripture teaches that our reign with Christ ever expires, unless it occurs at the 2nd coming when the kingdom is delivered up to the Father (1 COR 15: 23-26), but the time Satan is bound in the pit does expire.

                    Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

                    Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

                    Satan is loosed and gathers an army that encompasses the camp of the saints, who are either still reigning with Christ or they're not.

                    The "thousand years ( long time)" that the saints reign with Christ must be a different time period in length than the "thousand years" Satan is bound.
                    Hi Len,

                    Great to see you brother!

                    You are correct. Christ's reign and our reign with Him is everlasting. It will never end.

                    The "thousand years" in Revelation 20:1-7 is limited to Satan's binding and not with the reign of Christ or our reign with Him.

                    Jesus reigns over His kingdom and we who are in Christ reign with Him during the "thousand yrs." symbolic period.

                    And Jesus still reigns during Satan's little season after he is loosed. And we will still be reigning with Jesus during that "little season" even in physical death.

                    Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

                    Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.


                    These are the same ones we find in the latter part of Revelation 20:4:

                    "...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."


                    Shirley

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Janet,

                      The time of Satan's loosening is after the thousand years have expired. I don't believe the millennium has expired yet.

                      Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

                      8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.


                      I believe that this is Satan's little season, His final tribulation of wrath on the true Church just before the Second Coming of Christ.

                      I also believe that 2 Thessalonians 2 and Revelation 13 is speaking about that same time.
                      Hi Shirley, I also believe that this symbolic time period that we call the "mill" has no end, too...(for those whom are truly in Christ), that is....those whom have entered the eternal rest of the Lord....time has already ceased for them. Time as we humans keep time, that is.

                      As I see it, satan has always been around trying to pervert the gospel of Christ, and that began even in the first century. As I see it, that gospel is really twisted already now...to the point where the very blood of Christ is being denied. This is the final apostacy, as I see it....and, it relates to the timeframe of him really being loosed, and all we now await is the furtherance of him going about leading this world to destruction, which I also believe is right around the corner.

                      The "frogs" that lead mankind to destruction, by gathering all nations together for armagheddon has already began as I see it...this world is about to reap what it has sowed.

                      This will culminate in the coming of the Lord, thank God.

                      At which time, we will still be reigning with Him, for even as His reign has no end, niether does that which we have already began, if we are truly in Him...but, satan's time is short, knowing that he has but a little time left.

                      I don't necessarily look for a literal man of sin...sitting in a stone temple, for I don't see that as the fulfillment, but evil men have been entering the true temple of God for a long time, proclaiming themselves as god, as they exalt their fleshly doctrines.


                      peaceandlove,


                      janet

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ltanner09 View Post
                        Hi Shirley, been in lurk mode for about 9 months. ...
                        Gee, Lt. You and Shirley close are you? This helps me bunches, since I already know your theology.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The bride and trib saints follow the Lamb

                          Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                          Are there any scriptures that state that once the have been seen in heaven that they then are taken away from before the throne of God, to dwell upon this earth and not remain in heaven?
                          Matthew 19:28
                          So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

                          Revelation 20:4
                          4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

                          We must remember we are reigning with the Lord over Israel and the nations that remain after the tribulation. In heaven we do not reign over Israel we reign with the Lord and Israel from the New Jerusalem.

                          Revelation 21:12-14
                          12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
                          14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.


                          We serve the Lord and reign with Him from the New Jerusalem.

                          Revelation 22:3-5
                          3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

                          I hope these verses help
                          May God bless all His dear children


                          Revelation 19:7,8
                          7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.


                          Revelation 19:11-16
                          11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

                          KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

                          These armies are made up of the bride and the tribulation saints. Together they follow the Lord back to the earth. I MUST STIPULATE THAT THEY DO NOT FIGHT IN THE BATTLE IT IS THE SWORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE LORD'S MOUTH THE STRIKES DOWN THE WICKED. (PS I am not yelling at you here.)
                          John 8:31-32



                          31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


                          Dizzy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                            Thanks Shirley

                            Just one or two points I would like you to clarify. If the thousand years is symbolic does that also mean that satan being bound for a thousand years, where he cannot tempt anyone until the thousand years is complete, does that not mean that we are not being tempted of the devil and cannot be until Christ returns as they happen at the same time?

                            Also after the thousand years are over is the final resurrection and judgment, again is this not to be?

                            FF
                            Hi FF,
                            I hope you don't mind if I say something here. Even though Satan is bound for the thousand years it is mans will that he turns against God. We can't say the devil made me do it. They have a choice to follow the Lord or to disobey. Even with Satan bound there are those who will reject the Lord as King.
                            John 8:31-32



                            31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”


                            Dizzy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ShirleyFord View Post
                              FF, the purpose of the binding of Satan by Jesus at Calvary was not to prevent him from tempting anyone or to render him helpless. The purpose of Satan's binding was for the purpose of getting the gospel out to the nations, the Gentiles, who had sat in darkness without hope as they were in absolute deception of the devil being bound by the devil.

                              Rev. 20:3 " ...that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled..."



                              Matt 4:12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

                              13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:

                              14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

                              15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;

                              16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

                              17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

                              Isaiah 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.

                              2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

                              Paul relates to King Agrippa how the Lord called him:




                              Acts 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

                              16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

                              17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

                              18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.







                              Our spiritual resurrection at the time we are saved occurs before we die and before the Second Coming of Christ. Our final resurrection, our eternal physical resurrection and the general judgement before the throne of God is at the Second Coming of Christ.


                              Shirley
                              With regard to the following when the thousand year begins satan cannot deceive until the thousand years are fulfilled;
                              Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

                              Remember also that when he is released he has a job to do.

                              Revelation 20:7,8.
                              7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
                              8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

                              As we can see this is quite specific, and takes place after the antichrist has done what is needed for those in the first resurrection to be be able to reign with Christ.

                              Comment

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