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How does a person come to Christ?

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  • #16
    In polls like this, it's best to have an "other" category. I hold to the necessity of the Spirit in drawing us to Him, and I selected the 3rd option. But I hold to election and free will at the same time. I suspect many others do as well.

    Nice idea for a poll.

    BD
    3 John 4 - "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my [spiritual] children walk in the truth.

    BadDog!

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    • #17
      It's the catch 22 of the faith that: to know the Lord he has to reveal Himself to you, yet one cannot do so unwillingly....but....when he does reveal Himself, its impossibly not to be willing.
      "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
      -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

      "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

      Watch This! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA - Christian Artist Lecrae

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Revinius View Post
        It's the catch 22 of the faith that: to know the Lord he has to reveal Himself to you, yet one cannot do so unwillingly....but....when he does reveal Himself, its impossibly not to be willing.
        Well, that's the Reformed position... and it is a catch 22. But there are other positions, including the Arminian position, in which we cooperate with the Spirit.

        IMO we cannot come to Christ unless the Spirit draws us, but it is not irresistible - we have a choice and the ability to choose.

        BD
        3 John 4 - "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my [spiritual] children walk in the truth.

        BadDog!

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        • #19
          But the sovereignty of God dictates election, when his true nature is revealed you cant help but want it.

          Arminianism is a heresy imho, but whatever you wish to believe is up to you.
          "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
          -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

          "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

          Watch This! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA - Christian Artist Lecrae

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Revinius View Post
            But the sovereignty of God dictates election, when his true nature is revealed you cant help but want it.

            Arminianism is a heresy imho, but whatever you wish to believe is up to you.
            I am not Arminian, FWIW. I hold to eternal security and election. (Not just corporate election, but individual - God choosing us.)

            I also agree completely with free will. There is no conflict with our choosing God - cooperation. Many people hold to election and free will at the same time, FYI.

            Many who are Reformed tend to think that if you do not hold to at least 4 of the 5 points of the TULIP you are Arminian. That is far from true. You need to hold to the 5 Remonstrances, and I don't agree with a couple of them, just as I do not accept all 5 of the TULIP points.

            The only way I could not help but want God's salvation is if I have already been regenerated, and even then we rebel. We then get into the ordo salutis (order of salvation), to which I hold an Arminian stance. (We trust in Christ first, which results [logically] in our justification & regeneration.)

            As I see it, God does truly choose me, and if He did not, I would not, could not come to Him. He draws me to Himself through the work of the Spirit. (John 6:44, 45 in context, and John 16:8-11) Unless the Spirit drew me I would not seek Him. But the Spirit does draw me, and I can respond. John 6 does not say that I WILL respond but that I will NOT respond unless the Father draws me to the Son. I still have a choice. I can resist the work of the Spirit in wooing me. That is where my view of election differs from the Calvinistic view - it is not "irresistible."

            Thx,

            BD
            3 John 4 - "No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my [spiritual] children walk in the truth.

            BadDog!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by BadDog View Post
              The only way I could not help but want God's salvation is if I have already been regenerated, and even then we rebel.
              I dont think thats the case, there is a minute apart of us that is made for worship and has the law written in our hearts (even if we wilfully choose to go against it). When that object of which we were made for worship appears we cannot help but be in awe of it. Just like on the last day when EVERY knee will bow, all will acknowledge the authority of the Lord regardless of whether they have accepted His sons sacrifice.
              "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
              -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

              "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

              Watch This! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA - Christian Artist Lecrae

              Comment

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