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  • Hero or criminal? Shooting in Texas.

    This happened in Pasadena, Texas. Joe Horn called 911 and told the operator that two men were burglarizing his neighbor's house. Horn informed the operator that he had a shotgun. The operator repeatedly told him not to go outside. As the men came back out of the neighbor's house and began to leave Horn told the operator that he was going outside to confront the men. He goes outside, says "Boom. You're dead," and three shots are fired.

    The end result is that the two burglars are dead. Now, there is an uproar in Houston over whether this guy is a murderer or a hero. The two men who were shot were black and Horn is white so this has become a racial issue. Predictably whites have lined up to support Horn, blacks have lined up to support the burglars, and Texas ends up looking like a state filled with morons running around stealing things and shooting people. Being a Texan myself I hate to say that.

    For more details you can read about the story here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...=mostpop_story

    and listen to the entire audio of the 911 call here: Edited out link

    I first heard the audio and then read a story on it. When I read the story there was one sentence toward the end that said Horn was unlikely to be charged. My jaw just about hit the floor. But, I seem to be in the minority in thinking that charges should be brought.

    So, what I want to know is, was Horn right or wrong in what he did?

    I think he was wrong because he confronted the criminals after five minutes of the operator telling him to stay inside and don't do anything. Like I said, I seem to be in the minority so I certainly welcome other opinions.
    Last edited by JenniferBerry; Dec 7th 2007, 08:44 PM. Reason: Commet section of link violation of forum rule
    Woodrow Call: For all you know it invites people to rob us.
    Gus McCrae: Well the first man comes along that can read Latin is welcome to rob us, far as I'm concerned. I'd like a chance t' shoot at a educated man once in my life.


    If I find,
    If I find my own way,
    How much will I find?
    -- Joseph Arthur, In the Sun

  • #2
    Originally posted by Matthew View Post
    This happened in Pasadena, Texas. Joe Horn called 911 and told the operator that two men were burglarizing his neighbor's house. Horn informed the operator that he had a shotgun. The operator repeatedly told him not to go outside. As the men came back out of the neighbor's house and began to leave Horn told the operator that he was going outside to confront the men. He goes outside, says "Boom. You're dead," and three shots are fired.
    You answered a couple of my questions and I'm very sorry to say you did so much sooner than i was hoping for. In my mind I questioned how long before someone brought this uo and then would put their own spin on the matter, both are answered.

    He did not say 'boom,' Joe said, "Move and your dead!. Both of the illegal immigrants with forged papers stating they were from Mexico, they were from Colombia, and the Texas DPS was investigating both of them for Organized Crime, and their Texas Driver's License was illegally obtained.

    That the 911 operator warned him not to go outside is true, they were worried about Joe's safety. After Joe told those two criminally enmgaged illegal immigrants that they were under citizen's arrest, "Move and your dead," they both moved toward him. He did not shoot them in the back you know.
    [quote]
    The end result is that the two burglars are dead. Now, there is an uproar in Houston over whether this guy is a murderer or a hero.[quote]
    The people getting the press do so on a very regular basis, we see them in the news almost daily trying to make crime legal and a normal way of life. They are Farracan's (sp?0 stool pidgins and that makes them radical Black Muslims. The DA, the Grand Jury, and all six branches of the Texas Police Forces are in complete support of Joe.[quote]

    The two men who were shot were black and Horn is white so this has become a racial issue.

    And I repeat, they were Columbian gangsters and they were not black. People of color? Yes, but I'm half native American so just like the black man, the brown man and the white man, we are all colored. 99% of the racial strife in southeast Texas is generated by Yankee Unions trying to get enough strife generated to get a foothold in this 'right to work' state.
    Predictably whites have lined up to support Horn, blacks have lined up to support the burglars, and Texas ends up looking like a state filled with morons running around stealing things and shooting people. Being a Texan myself I hate to say that.
    If you are a Texan, I find it very hard to brlieve that you have put a spin on this story and the investigation that is being so publicly transparent is not even finished at this point.

    For more details you can read about the story here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...=mostpop_story

    and listen to the entire audio of the 911 call here: Edited link

    I first heard the audio and then read a story on it. When I read the story there was one sentence toward the end that said Horn was unlikely to be charged. My jaw just about hit the floor. But, I seem to be in the minority in thinking that charges should be brought.

    So, what I want to know is, was Horn right or wrong in what he did?

    I think he was wrong because he confronted the criminals after five minutes of the operator telling him to stay inside and don't do anything. Like I said, I seem to be in the minority so I certainly welcome other opinions.
    Look, I volunteered to go to war in Vietnam 3 times in four years so I expect you already know my answer. Just the same, what Joe did was foolish, he could easily been murdered right there in his front yard where the two illegal criminals died. Yes, he shot them in his yard unless more evidence is found that says otherwise. But in the end I went to Vietnam to help a group of people that I love to this very day find freedom and Joe went forward to protect his neighbor's and his own property.

    Carried to it's logical conclusion, there is no reason to believe his house was not their next target.
    Last edited by JenniferBerry; Dec 7th 2007, 09:36 PM. Reason: Edited link in quote

    Comment


    • #3
      Joe is a criminal.

      That being said, good lord, who can blame him?

      He called 911, and the police don't show up for almost 10 minutes. In the meantime these (possibly armed) robbers are just making off with his neighbor's property.

      Had the police arrived in time and arrested these two punks, they would have been released from jail shortly thereafter, and they would have resumed their life of crime. They were illegals with a criminal history.


      I can't say that what Joe Horn did was right. But I'm not sure I can say that what he did was wrong either. Homeowners have the right to protect ourselves and our property from criminals.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by th1bill View Post
        [COLOR=Blue][SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia]You answered a couple of my questions and I'm very sorry to say you did so much sooner than i was hoping for. In my mind I questioned how long before someone brought this uo and then would put their own spin on the matter, both are answered.
        Whoa, there's no spin here. I briefly summed up what happened and provided a link to a CBS article and the full audio for everyone to listen to.

        He did not say 'boom,' Joe said, "Move and your dead!. Both of the illegal immigrants with forged papers stating they were from Mexico, they were from Colombia, and the Texas DPS was investigating both of them for Organized Crime, and their Texas Driver's License was illegally obtained.
        "Move and your dead!" seems much more logical to me, but the CBS article says that he said "Boom. You're dead." The audio seems to confirm this. Either way though, it does not change my position.

        Illegals or not seems irrelevant given that Mr. Horn didn't have any knowledge about who they were.

        That the 911 operator warned him not to go outside is true, they were worried about Joe's safety. After Joe told those two criminally enmgaged illegal immigrants that they were under citizen's arrest, "Move and your dead," they both moved toward him. He did not shoot them in the back you know.
        Quannel X seems to think they were shot in the back. Given that he's part of the New Black Panther Party I'll reserve judgment on this issue. I'll check for other sources about where they were shot.


        The people getting the press do so on a very regular basis, we see them in the news almost daily trying to make crime legal and a normal way of life. They are Farracan's (sp?0 stool pidgins and that makes them radical Black Muslims. The DA, the Grand Jury, and all six branches of the Texas Police Forces are in complete support of Joe.
        I suppose we'll see who's on Joe's side. I certainly will not be surprised if you are 100% correct, even though I think he should be charged with something.


        Look, I volunteered to go to war in Vietnam 3 times in four years so I expect you already know my answer. Just the same, what Joe did was foolish, he could easily been murdered right there in his front yard where the two illegal criminals died. Yes, he shot them in his yard unless more evidence is found that says otherwise. But in the end I went to Vietnam to help a group of people that I love to this very day find freedom and Joe went forward to protect his neighbor's and his own property.

        Carried to it's logical conclusion, there is no reason to believe his house was not their next target.
        I think Mr. Horn's own words about them "getting away" is pretty strong evidence that his house was not next.


        EDIT: I found another source that says Mr. Horn said "Move, you're dead." I think that's more likely.
        http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3880630
        Last edited by Matthew; Dec 6th 2007, 02:56 AM.
        Woodrow Call: For all you know it invites people to rob us.
        Gus McCrae: Well the first man comes along that can read Latin is welcome to rob us, far as I'm concerned. I'd like a chance t' shoot at a educated man once in my life.


        If I find,
        If I find my own way,
        How much will I find?
        -- Joseph Arthur, In the Sun

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jeffreys View Post
          Joe is a criminal.

          That being said, good lord, who can blame him?

          He called 911, and the police don't show up for almost 10 minutes. In the meantime these (possibly armed) robbers are just making off with his neighbor's property.

          Had the police arrived in time and arrested these two punks, they would have been released from jail shortly thereafter, and they would have resumed their life of crime. They were illegals with a criminal history.


          I can't say that what Joe Horn did was right. But I'm not sure I can say that what he did was wrong either. Homeowners have the right to protect ourselves and our property from criminals.
          I think the police were there pretty quickly. I do hate to blame a guy that only wanted to help protect his neighbor's property. I wish he had listened to the operator though.
          Woodrow Call: For all you know it invites people to rob us.
          Gus McCrae: Well the first man comes along that can read Latin is welcome to rob us, far as I'm concerned. I'd like a chance t' shoot at a educated man once in my life.


          If I find,
          If I find my own way,
          How much will I find?
          -- Joseph Arthur, In the Sun

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Matthew View Post
            I think the police were there pretty quickly. I do hate to blame a guy that only wanted to help protect his neighbor's property. I wish he had listened to the operator though.
            One thought... Over a phone the phrase, "Move & you're dead!" could probably sound like, "Boom, you're dead!" But I don't know if that's what was said.

            Even so, I just have very mixed feelings about this one. I cannot condone what he did. But there is a deep-in-the-gut visceral part of me that almost can't help but say, "You know, if a whole lot more criminals got shot and killed as they were burglarizing homes, maybe would-be criminals would THINK before they did the deed."

            I know, I know... It's just that sometimes I get pretty angry about some of this stupid criminal activity!

            Comment


            • #7
              I heard the audio on CNN or Fox can't remember which. But you know, I could see this guy trying to protect his own stuff, and the people in his house, but they were next door, outside, and his neigbor was not home. The only thing at risk, were the material things.

              He was told not to go over there. Repeatedly. But he really wanted to, so much, he ignored the warnings not to. He had it mind to do so from the beginning. He was very much gung-ho about it. And 2 lives are gone now. Yes they were thefts. But now, we will never know if they would have ever repented of it, and followed Jesus.

              Sometimes it takes more than a few minutes to get from one side of a town to the other, as well. Perhaps what the man could have done, was get a description of the men, and watched which direction they were going in, and how they were leaving.

              We can always buy a new TV, radio......I heard the audio, and the man wanted to use the gun. He desired to do so. He was blatant to the authority. In other words he disrespected the rules. He was no better than the thefts! Now dead men!

              Galatians 2: 20
              I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry, these other points didn't show up when I quoted your text.

                Originally posted by th1bill
                And I repeat, they were Columbian gangsters and they were not black. People of color? Yes, but I'm half native American so just like the black man, the brown man and the white man, we are all colored. 99% of the racial strife in southeast Texas is generated by Yankee Unions trying to get enough strife generated to get a foothold in this 'right to work' state.
                I'm sure there are black Columbians just like black Americans. Whether they were black, brown, green, or polka-dotted the result has been "protests" where blacks and whites are lined up on opposite sides. I hate to see that.


                Originally posted by th1bill
                If you are a Texan, I find it very hard to brlieve that you have put a spin on this story and the investigation that is being so publicly transparent is not even finished at this point.
                There's no "if" I'm a Texan. I was born here, have always lived here, and will probably die here. There's no spin in my post either. I supported my post with sources and will be glad to explain myself and correct anything that is incorrect.

                New information could certainly come to light and I would be glad to change my position accordingly. I have no personal stake here. I just seemed to be in the minority and wanted other opinions.
                Woodrow Call: For all you know it invites people to rob us.
                Gus McCrae: Well the first man comes along that can read Latin is welcome to rob us, far as I'm concerned. I'd like a chance t' shoot at a educated man once in my life.


                If I find,
                If I find my own way,
                How much will I find?
                -- Joseph Arthur, In the Sun

                Comment


                • #9
                  My neighbors would have given the thieves a place to hide out after burglarizing my home, and I envy having a neighborhood were the residents look out for each other.

                  Truthfully, if people are prepared to do the wrong thing, they need to be prepared for consequences. Saying that Horn shouldn't have interferred because it was his neighbor's property is disgusting, especially when we pretend to have that whole neighborly love type deal going on, I guess it doesn't apply when there is rough work to be done, huh?

                  It might have been excessive, but I can't say for sure because I wasn't there, however, confronting criminals is a scary thing and if they're willing to break in to someone's home, I bet they're willing to kill anyone who stands in their way.

                  *edit*
                  For those who live a life of comfort cut off from any type of daily struggle, Horn's actions seem way excessive, for those who understand and have lived through struggle, his actions are justified.
                  The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
                  In the ranks of death ye will find him;
                  His father's sword he hath girded on,
                  And his wild harp slung behind him;
                  "Land of Song!" said the warrior bard,
                  "Tho' all the world betray thee,
                  One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
                  One faithful harp shall praise thee!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I can't get much sympathy together for the burglars. When you break into someone's house in Texas, you pretty much take your chances; it's likely the occupant has a gun and will shoot you.

                    On the other hand, when the operator told him to stay in his house, he was obligated to do that. The police (and the operator has the authority of a LEO) have the right and responsibility to give orders and we are obligated to obey them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by macarnett View Post
                      I can't get much sympathy together for the burglars. When you break into someone's house in Texas, you pretty much take your chances; it's likely the occupant has a gun and will shoot you.
                      Living in Texas myself I agree with what you wrote above. A majority of us living here not only have firearms in the house you would be surprised to discover how many of us have the license to carry a concealed weapon.
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                      • #12
                        Living in a neighbor hood thats had seveal drivebys; and often still hearing shots fired; honest to God; I'd have to say that I would of done the same thing. I dont know what people have or dont have; what could or couldnt happen; my family; and my life is important; important enough to protect at all costs; even to the extent of someone elses lives.
                        xPurity Through Resistancex

                        Straight Edge


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What does a man profit if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?

                          The guy did not have the authority of the government to protect his neighbor's property with deadly force. If Texas has a law on the books saying that he can do so, then he is clear. If the law says he was wrong, then he is a criminal and should be punished as such.

                          Still, is a man's material wealth worth another man's life?

                          If a man came in my house, I would run out of there as fast as I could. If he came in and I had a wife or children at home, I wouldn't hesitate to kill him. As the authority of the home, it is my responsibility to protect those within it. Both God and government agree on that principle. But if no one is at home, let them have the material stuff and let the police deal with them.
                          Matt 9:13
                          13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                          NASU

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                          • #14
                            Th1Bill makes some excellent points

                            To me he is a hero. He is what men used to be in this nation. Brave, honorable, wanting to do right...not afraid to react.

                            Now, let me say...I do not condone cold blooded murder...but when we as American Citizens allow criminals to think they can do anything they want, becuase we are to scared to stand up...we are in trouble as a nation.

                            I have heard how people have ignored screams or knew a rape was taking place.....but just didn't know what to do.

                            Well I say good for this guy...he was prepared and knew what to do.

                            As an older neighbors of mine says..we have become a nations of cowards.

                            I know that we watch our neigbors property and they keep an eye on ours.

                            The bottom line is by the time you call 911, the crooks are gone or your dead...

                            Maybe I have that 'country" mentalilty and always have.....all I know is things are getting better and easier for the criminals and more innocent people are becoming victims.

                            I know what I would do....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Living in Texas myself I agree with what you wrote above. A majority of us living here not only have firearms in the house you would be surprised to discover how many of us have the license to carry a concealed weapon.
                              I wonder what the burglary rates are in Dallas, as opposed to Boston. Might be interesting to find out. Granted, criminals tend to be a rather dull-witted lot, but I doubt if they are that stupid.

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