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Some facts regarding the NU in the NKJV

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  • Some facts regarding the NU in the NKJV

    By BD Sounds like you must be right. I tried to search it out and could not find any sites that gave a direct link.

    But the key is recognizing that they are both Bible translation and distribution organizations. And the Greek text used by the UBS, and promoted to be used by translators around the world, is the N-A Greek text, but packaged differently - for Bible translators. The ABS has only been behind the Today's English Version and the Contemporary English Version. It is not attempting to bring Christians together under one umbrella. It is all about getting the Word into people's hands.
    I want to start out by saying the UBS has many loving Christians who have devoted their life to Christ, who done many good works, and have helped spread the gospel. That being said, it does not hurt to examine the leadership and what they have been doing. BD you have said the ABS and the UBS are autonomous, but if the President of the ABS is also the chairman of the UBS Executive committee, and the address for the UBS is the office of the ABS in New York, how much autonomy is that. The following came from the UBS web-site.(“Welcoming the agreement by VBI, ABS President Dr Eugene Habecker, Chairman of the UBS Executive Committee, said,”)

    The ABS produced the Good News Bible, and the UBS has been translating the Good News Bible into other languages and selling it. What I fail to understand is why they are translating the Good News Bible, instead of the NU. I don’t know if they did translate the NU into other languages, but it didn’t show up in a word search of their web site. Can you imagine if this work had been done 1800 years ago how much more confusion there would be when we started to find all of these Good News Bible Translations all over the world?

    And even if it were, so what? What does that have to do with the quality of work done not by the UBS but by Nestle and Aland? The UBS did not develop the Greek text they use - it is the NA Greek text.
    Kurt Aland worked for the UBS while he worked as co-editor of the Nestle- Aland through the associate Wurttembergische Bible Institute, later changed to German Bible Society.

    "The third edition of the United Bible Societies text was altered in more than 500 places from the first edition (see Aland Black Metzger Wikren 1966), most of the changes being made at the suggestion of Kurt Aland. Since 1952 Aland had been co-editor of the "Nestle-Aland" editions of the Württembergische BibelanstaltNestle 1927), and he appears to have been the dominant member of the UBS committee from the start." along with Erwin Nestle"

    The publisher of this text, United Bible Societies (UBS), is an association of Bible societies from five countries: The American Bible Society, The National Bible Society of Scotland, the Württemberg Bible Institute (now called the German Bible Society), the Netherlands Bible Society, and the British and Foreign Bible Society. The association was created in 1955 for the purpose of producing this text, and it now manages international Bible publication and distribution operations which in the past had been performed chiefly by the British and Foreign Bible Society.

    You can say the UBS is not ecumenical, but they produce Catholic Bibles.
    This edition presents a modest revision of the text of the first UBS edition (see Aland Black Metzger Wikren 1966). Worthy of note is the fact that for this edition a Roman Catholic scholar, Carlo Martini, has been added to the editorial committee.


    “We are working more and more closely with the Bible Society,” he says. “Our Cardinal is one of the patrons of the Bible Society, we are represented on the translation committees and on boards – all this has psychologically put the Bible Society in a better perspective for us.”


    The UBS launched a program to replace the King James with the Good News Bible.
    Resistance in churches

    However, there is greater resistance to the change in the churches than in the schools. Mr Stewart cites an example:
    “One pastor tried to get his church to change from the King James and someone said, ‘Listen, this [version] was here before you and will be here after you. So take your Bible and go, we are happy with what we have.’”
    The Bible Society is not discouraged, and has launched a massive marketing campaign to gain acceptance for the new Bible.



    The GNB was not chosen simply because it was produced by UBS, he notes. With the help of Opportunity 21, the cost is being kept the same as the KJV.

    And this organizations Bible is stamped on almost every page of the NKJV.

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    • #3
      [quote]
      Originally posted by apothanein kerdos View Post


      "There is nothing more ugly than a Christian orthodoxy without understanding or without compassion." - Francis Schaeffer(The God Who is There)
      I see you have seen a picture of me.

      A humanist's idea of compassion is that God will let no one go to Hell.

      Terrell





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      • #4
        We can find fault with every English translation of the Bible in existence. I do not remember all the details, because it did not in the least interest me when it was taught (and still does not), but I remember from Bible college one of the professors attacking the motives behind and some of the people involved in the translation of the 1611 KJV. Let us be realistic, no group of Bible translators is perfect. I honestly do not care if Athiests translate the Bible so long as they do it correctly. In all honesty, they probably would render a more accurate translation because they would be absent of theological bias.
        I personally prefer to use the KJV. Unfortunately, I have seen from a practical ministry standpoint that the KJV limits the ministry. In an ideal world, the schools would still be providing a classical education to our children. They would be able to read the classics and comprehend them. Unfortunately, most can not even read the comic strip in the news paper and comprehend it. Even though I love the King James, I would much rather have someone actually read and understand a modern translation, that stare at their KJV on the night stand gathering dust because they can neither read nor understand it.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Reynolds357 View Post
          We can find fault with every English translation of the Bible in existence. I do not remember all the details, because it did not in the least interest me when it was taught (and still does not), but I remember from Bible college one of the professors attacking the motives behind and some of the people involved in the translation of the 1611 KJV. Let us be realistic, no group of Bible translators is perfect. I honestly do not care if Athiests translate the Bible so long as they do it correctly. In all honesty, they probably would render a more accurate translation because they would be absent of theological bias.
          I personally prefer to use the KJV. Unfortunately, I have seen from a practical ministry standpoint that the KJV limits the ministry. In an ideal world, the schools would still be providing a classical education to our children. They would be able to read the classics and comprehend them. Unfortunately, most can not even read the comic strip in the news paper and comprehend it. Even though I love the King James, I would much rather have someone actually read and understand a modern translation, that stare at their KJV on the night stand gathering dust because they can neither read nor understand it.
          God did not make the Bible easy to be understood. Even the writers did not understand all they wrote. Do you think the Jews who put the blood of a lamb over the lentil had any understanding of what that meant.

          God desires seekers of truth, seekers of Him. God sent the twelve out, but said, leave those in the dust, that do not have a desire to hear. God desires to reveal himself through the Spirit of Truth.

          I hardly think God wants people to think the lamb of God was actually a rooster, as some have done with their Dynamic Equivalence Translation.

          If it makes you feel good, you should do it, is the philosophy of the day.

          God said to speak to the Rock, to do anything otherwise was inappropriate. Moses did what he thought was appropriate, in consideration of the circumstances he found himself in. Because he didn't follow instructions, he found himself placed outside the promised land. Moses had reason in his own mind to strike the Rock, after all, God had told him previously to strike the Rock to obtain water.

          "And you Solomon my son, know thou the God of your father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts: if you seek him, he will be found of you; but if you forsake him, he will cast you off for ever." (1 Chronicles 28:9)

          Today, almost all the work done by Bible translators is Dynamic Equivalence, transferring God's thoughts to man's thought's. How does man transfer God's thoughts to his, when God's thoughts are so much higher than his.

          "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord." (Isaiah 55:8)

          "And again, The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain." (1 Corinthians 3:20)

          The Greek word for wise, "sophos", has the connotation of being skilled in letters.

          Peace in Jesus Christ, Terrell

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          • #6
            Tgallison,

            How fluent are you in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek?

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            • #7
              Hey! I'm still struggling with English!

              Seriously, my NASB gives way sometimes NKJV. At least the KJV highlights the commentary.
              Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by apothanein kerdos View Post
                Tgallison,

                How fluent are you in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek?
                Can't say that I am familiar with any of them, but I do have a relationship with my Father, and I know the voice of my shepherd.

                "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" (1 Corinthians 1:19-20)

                "For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty:" (1 Corinthians 1 26-27)

                Again the Greek word for wise found in this scripture has the connotation of a translator.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tgallison View Post
                  Can't say that I am familiar with any of them, but I do have a relationship with my Father, and I know the voice of my shepherd.

                  "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" (1 Corinthians 1:19-20)

                  "For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty:" (1 Corinthians 1 26-27)

                  Again the Greek word for wise found in this scripture has the connotation of a translator.
                  Then if you don't know any of those languages, how do you know you're actually reading the Word of God? I mean, EVERYTHING you read has to be a translation because you can't read those languages. Since translations are bad, I guess that means you've never read His Word...

                  Furthermore, how do you know sophos means "translator?" Which, by the way, it doesn't. The passage is talking about the Sophists...but hey...since you're not familiar with Greek, but feel you can translate it anyway, who am I to tell you what it means?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tgallison View Post
                    God did not make the Bible easy to be understood. Even the writers did not understand all they wrote. Do you think the Jews who put the blood of a lamb over the lentil had any understanding of what that meant.

                    God desires seekers of truth, seekers of Him. God sent the twelve out, but said, leave those in the dust, that do not have a desire to hear. God desires to reveal himself through the Spirit of Truth.

                    I hardly think God wants people to think the lamb of God was actually a rooster, as some have done with their Dynamic Equivalence Translation.

                    If it makes you feel good, you should do it, is the philosophy of the day.

                    God said to speak to the Rock, to do anything otherwise was inappropriate. Moses did what he thought was appropriate, in consideration of the circumstances he found himself in. Because he didn't follow instructions, he found himself placed outside the promised land. Moses had reason in his own mind to strike the Rock, after all, God had told him previously to strike the Rock to obtain water.

                    "And you Solomon my son, know thou the God of your father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts: if you seek him, he will be found of you; but if you forsake him, he will cast you off for ever." (1 Chronicles 28:9)

                    Today, almost all the work done by Bible translators is Dynamic Equivalence, transferring God's thoughts to man's thought's. How does man transfer God's thoughts to his, when God's thoughts are so much higher than his.

                    "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord." (Isaiah 55:8)

                    "And again, The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain." (1 Corinthians 3:20)

                    The Greek word for wise, "sophos", has the connotation of being skilled in letters.

                    Peace in Jesus Christ, Terrell
                    If the Bible is supposed to be hard to understand, why not just stare at the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts? I gave up on learning Greek long ago. I never have tried to learn the other two. I leared enough about the Greek language to know that I should leave translation of Greek to true scholars. I have vast amounts of reference material that true experts have written that tell me what the orig. Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic say. What I find interesting is that especially when dealing with Hebrew, the best experts totally disagree on how a phrase or group of phrases should be traslated. So, if you want hard to understand, just read the Bible in its native languages.

                    The Bible was not meat to be hard to understand. It is the Living word of God. It speaks to me. However, if I tried to read it in a language or form of language that I do not understand, it would not speak very much.

                    Please tell me which translation says the Lamb of God is a "rooster." I am not doubting you, I just want to see that one. I never said all translations are good. There are some bad ones out there, but there are also some very good modern translations out there. In my opinion, there are some that are every bit as good and possibly more accurate than KJV. Dynamic equivelance is not "transferring God's thoughts to man's thoughts." It is translating the full meaning of a passage in one language to the identical meaning of the same passage in another.

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                    • #11
                      [quote]
                      Originally posted by apothanein kerdos View Post
                      Then if you don't know any of those languages, how do you know you're actually reading the Word of God? I mean, EVERYTHING you read has to be a translation because you can't read those languages. Since translations are bad, I guess that means you've never read His Word...
                      God spoke to me before I knew the scripture. The only thing I knew was that Jesus was called the Son of God. Has God spoken to you?

                      Furthermore, how do you know sophos means "translator?" Which, by the way, it doesn't. The passage is talking about the Sophists...but hey...since you're not familiar with Greek, but feel you can translate it anyway, who am I to tell you what it means?
                      You want to limit the word to the Greeks only but it is speaking of all wise men. All scribes are "sophos", but all that are "sophos" are not scribes. This is the problem with Dynamic Equivalence translating, for it restricts meanings to the thoughts of the translator.

                      Remember I qualified my statement with the word connotation.

                      Terrell

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                      • #12
                        God spoke to me before I knew the scripture. The only thing I knew was that Jesus was called the Son of God. Has God spoken to you?
                        By your standards, no, He hasn't. Guess I'm going to hell.

                        Thankfully, your standards aren't the Biblical standards.
                        You want to limit the word to the Greeks only but it is speaking of all wise men. All scribes are "sophos", but all that are "sophos" are not scribes. This is the problem with Dynamic Equivalence translating, for it restricts meanings to the thoughts of the translator.
                        No, it doesn't mean that. That's like saying, "The English word 'love' can mean 'bacon.'"

                        It can't - unless the person saying so is crazy. Likewise, sophos in this context is referring to the Sophists. You don't know Greek (you said it, not me), so how could you possibly know what else it can mean? If you say "God told you," I'll contend that it wasn't God, or He doesn't know Greek, so that defense isn't going to work. Just letting you know.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by keck553 View Post
                          Hey! I'm still struggling with English!

                          Seriously, my NASB gives way sometimes NKJV. At least the KJV highlights the commentary.
                          Exactly my point.

                          No one on this board is fluent in any of those languages. In fact, there's less than 500 people in the United States that are fluent in all three of those languages. So if we can't trust our English translations, then the only other alternative is to know those languages.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Reynolds357 View Post
                            If the Bible is supposed to be hard to understand, why not just stare at the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts? I gave up on learning Greek long ago. I never have tried to learn the other two. I leared enough about the Greek language to know that I should leave translation of Greek to true scholars. I have vast amounts of reference material that true experts have written that tell me what the orig. Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic say. What I find interesting is that especially when dealing with Hebrew, the best experts totally disagree on how a phrase or group of phrases should be traslated. So, if you want hard to understand, just read the Bible in its native languages.

                            The Bible was not meat to be hard to understand. It is the Living word of God. It speaks to me. However, if I tried to read it in a language or form of language that I do not understand, it would not speak very much.

                            Please tell me which translation says the Lamb of God is a "rooster." I am not doubting you, I just want to see that one. I never said all translations are good. There are some bad ones out there, but there are also some very good modern translations out there. In my opinion, there are some that are every bit as good and possibly more accurate than KJV. Dynamic equivelance is not "transferring God's thoughts to man's thoughts." It is translating the full meaning of a passage in one language to the identical meaning of the same passage in another.
                            http://www.wayoflife.org/database/dynamic.html

                            A man working on the translation of a dynamic equivalency version of the Bible into a tribal language spoken in northeast India has reasoned as follows: This tribe has never sacrificed lambs, but they have sacrificed roosters (cocks) to their gods in days past. Therefore, we must translate John’s testimony as follows: “Behold the Cock of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” Evangelist Maken Sanglir of Nagaland gave us this illustration of Bible translation work in northeast India.

                            Terrell

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                            • #15
                              [QUOTE]
                              Originally posted by apothanein kerdos View Post
                              By your standards, no, He hasn't. Guess I'm going to hell.
                              Perhaps I should clarify my statement. I was seeking God, and I cried out to him night after night and had no peace. I could not understand how it all could be fair. The world did not seem just to me. I was wrestling with God. And one night he answered me in a wonderful way. He overwhelmed me with the goodness of his Son in my soul. At that moment I understood that Jesus is all that is good in this world. That He could do no wrong. That Spirit that came into my soul has always been with me. I know my master's voice.

                              Thankfully, your standards aren't the Biblical standards.
                              No, it doesn't mean that. That's like saying, "The English word 'love' can mean 'bacon.'"

                              It can't - unless the person saying so is crazy. Likewise, sophos in this context is referring to the Sophists. You don't know Greek (you said it, not me), so how could you possibly know what else it can mean? If you say "God told you," I'll contend that it wasn't God, or He doesn't know Greek, so that defense isn't going to work. Just letting you know.
                              "sophos" was derived from the Sophists and means wise. It can be applied in the negative or the positive. It was applied to God. You want to apply it to the Greeks only, in a narrow way, and that is the problem with Dynamic Equivalence. The definition is as narrow as the thoughts of the translator.

                              Transliteration

                              sophos

                              Pronunciation

                              so-fo's (Key)

                              Part of Speech

                              adjective


                              Root Word (Etymology)

                              akin to saphes (clear)
                              TDNT Reference


                              Vines


                              Outline of Biblical Usage
                              1) wise
                              a) skilled, expert: of artificers
                              b) wise, skilled in letters, cultivated, learned
                              1) of the Greek philosophers and orators
                              2) of Jewish theologians
                              3) of Christian teachers
                              c) forming the best plans and using the best means for their execution

                              Terrell

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