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  • Feel like my head is going to explode...

    I don't know what to do. I've been praying about it for hours and days and weeks. I've fasted, even for three days straight. My mind is in turmoil. All my life I've been a Christian, I've been saved since 1991, baptised in 1992, and have been living for Jesus every minute of every day.

    Until now.

    My work requires me to use and maintain many sophisticated electronic instruments. A few months ago, I had a particularly difficult time with a GPS (Global Positioning System) device which seemed to be working, but just wasn't producing the correct results. Eventually I began studying the principles on which this device operates. I thought I knew - You're simply triangulating the positions of a herd of satellites from the GPS antenna. That's correct, but it is far deeper than that. Special relativity plays a part, and once I started looking into relativity (and it was heavy going in the beginning) a whole new world of wonder opened up to me in a way I'd never experienced before.

    I'd studied sciences. I made it through high school and college for a tertiary qualification, but then, it was just formulas and rules without any life of their own. I'm seeing science in a completely different way, an exciting way that just makes me want to study more and more, but my pursuit is taking me further and further from my Bible.

    I've still got faith, and that is not in doubt. It's what I believe now that is worrying me. Relativity has taken me on a journey into cosmology (the study of the stars, space, and time) and almost all cosmologists don't believe in God at all. I was shocked to read about how they deny our Heavenly Father's authority, but their arguments about how space and matter and energy 'works' is so obvious, so alluring, that I can't get it out of my head! It collides head-on with Genesis, and they can't both be right. Either Science is false, or Genesis is false, or both are false. Every cell of my body screams out that the Bible can't be false, but I can no longer believe it. I can't feel it as truth any longer.

    It's driving me insane! What can I do?

  • #2
    I understand that, many years ago Billy Graham was talking to God, he held up his Bible, and said to God something like "I can't get my head around some of the things written in Your Word, but I have decided to believe it anyway, inspite of what others may say." and then refused to trouble his head about the issues again.

    I suggest you do the same as Billy did . . .

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey Sammy, the year before you got saved, in the summer of 1990, I got married in Glendale Ca. For reasons I won't go into right now for lack of time and because this is about your problem and not mine, I'll just tell you that both my wife and I became backsliders, and it wasn't till recently that we both rededicated our lives to The Lord after being brought to the brink of ending our marriage of 17 years.

      During that falling away period, I came to not just walk away from God, but to "deny" His existence and to settle for living a completely secular lifestyle, after having convinced myself that there was no Heaven or Hell, and that we have to make our own "Paradise" on this earth as best we can.

      Well that was all fine and dandy with my wife, though she tells me now she still had faith in God and thought all my talk about God not being real was just "crazy talk". Cut to me about five months ago, as I wondered about life and how to be "happy" I began to dabble into reading Horoscopes, to see if there was something to the belief that the movement of the stars and the planets in the "Cosmos", had a direct effect on our lives as it relates to the dates we were born at. And I was surprised to learn that even though I didn't quite believe in that stuff, it seemed that "The Universe" was speaking to me directly and in a way bringing me a message, which eventually caused me to get right with God and back into fellowship with Him.

      Now I'm not saying I endorse horoscopes or astrology or divination or any of that stuff, because I know that the Bible strictly prohibits "dabbling" into any of that. But what I'm saying is that in my case God used that stuff, among other things like nightmares, to call me out of my unbelieving state and to let me know He is not only real, but He loves us and cares for us and will use any means available to Him to reach-out to us.

      I believe what I learned then is that He is Lord over the Universe because He created it, He is in control of the planets and the stars, He's mind created the sciences that the so called "Scientists" claim to master, so they are only aware of the things He has allowed them to become aware of, and that's because their brains are way too small to be able to comprehend the myriads of calculations and computations that are "child's play" to the mind of God.

      I know that because He was able to arrange the stars and the planets that the people who write horoscopes interpret to tell me, at the precise time that He knew I would be looking at those readings, that I needed to get back into His fold, and that I had played "the fool" long enough. And it takes a Mighty, awesome, and most of all wise and loving God to be able to do that, because I'm convinced what happened to me was no coincidence, and it didn't happen by chance.

      I tell you one thing though, I now have only one source that I go to to hear what God has to tell me everyday, and that is the most reliable source we have because it was inspired by His own voice, and that is The Bible, the word of God. And though many don't think it's true, and even want to claim is full of lies and inconsistencies when compared to scientific facts, I have found enough truths in it and practical relevance to my daily life, that I just know they are wrong and it is right, and only when we get to know all things when we get to His presence and He blesses us with new bodies and bigger brains, we'll be able to comprehend how right and accurate the Bible really is, and nobody in this earth can convince me otherwise no matter how many degrees and certificates they wave at me.

      I'm sorry for the long post, but it's actually much shorter that I should have made it to tell you how Great and Real and Awesome the God we serve really is, and how reliable and trustworthy His Word really is.
      Give my good Reps to Him, Tell Him about my bad ones!

      Comment


      • #4
        Question, are you reading what the scientists tell you and accepting it as fact because they are scientists? A great deal of evolutionary theory is presented as fact when the reality is, it would be next to impossible (and in some cases I believe completely impossible) to have ever happened the way they tell you it did.

        What exactly are your sources and what are they telling you that's so troubling?

        Comment


        • #5
          You mentioned almost all cosmologists were non-believers. What do the rest say? Or have you read their defenses for the faith and found them unconvincing? I would'nt go much farther till I got their side.

          It seems to me one reason the these sciences are so populated with sceptics is because they started out with pride and an unconscious, sinful motive to find meaning outside of the Bible they'd already dismissed for personal reasons. In a field so abstract as this one, could it be that it's been skewed with their prejudices so much that those prejudices aren't recognizable anymore?

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you all for responding.
            Most of you think I'm speaking of deep theories. I'm not even going near evolution or big-bang theories. I'm just talking about simple science anyone can do.
            Two of my problems: The behavior of light, and the rotation of the earth.
            I can't express myself very well, but I'll try to explain.

            The earth's rotation: The Bible teaches us about a earth-centred universe. Reading Genesis 1 leaves one in no doubt that the earth is the centre of the universe. Gen 1:14-16 puts the sun and the moon 'up there' to give us day and night. Now I can see that it does not go into the specifics of how the relative movements make it appear that the sun and the moon chase each other around the planet, but the image I get from the writing is clear to me.

            Here's the wonder to me: The earth rotates once on its axis in 24 hours. The circumference is around 25000 miles give or take a hundred or so. That means that standing on the equator an observer will be travelling east at over 1000 miles per hour! Everything seems stationary because everything else is also travelling at the same speed - Sand, rocks, cars, buildings, and even the sea.

            Here's my problem. We rotate once every day to give the illusion that the sun has gone around us, but that isn't so. How can the sun stand still? We'd have to stop the rotation of the earth. Intertia says that if we did that we'd create a tsunami travelling at over 1000 miles per hour going east, a tsunami that would wipe out anything near the west coasts of continents completely. We're still travelling at 1000 miles per hour. When a car, travelling at 30 miles per hour hits a wall, the occupants continue moving at 30miles per hour until they hit something to stop them. Nobody wears seatbelts while walking around - If the earth stopped rotating, there'd be a worldwide cataclysm that would make Noah's flood look like Noah's paddle-pool.

            Joshua 10:13 which quotes something from the "book of Jasher" has to be hearsay, and can have no truth to it.

            A less well-known verse is found in 2 kings 20:9-11 -
            2 Kings 20:9 *And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees?
            10 *And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees.
            11 *And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.
            Here, clearly, the sun went BACKWARDS for Isaiah. That implies stopping the arth and accelerating backwards, which would have created an even worse planet-wide disaster.

            Clearly to me, these guys were indulging in fantasy and hyperbole to get their points across, and were certainly not describing FACTS.

            And that leaves me wondering about so much else - Axe-heads floating in rivers, talking donkeys, sticks turning into snakes - All too much for me to take 'on faith'.

            This is already long, so I'll describe my 'light' problem later.

            -Sam

            Comment


            • #7
              Dear Sam,
              Welcome to Bibleforums!
              It's great to have you here!

              Thanks also for your sincere faith and questions! I realize that you are in an agonizing position, and are struggling with challenging issues as faithfully as you know how. I really appreciate how you are laboring to stay faithful.

              About your questions, and my reply

              I want to say two sets of things, closely related, in reply, to try to address the concerns that you have.

              One thing has to do with the nature of the Bible, and the revelation it gives us, and perhaps with what kind of understanding it is possible for us to have of deep truths. Briefly, I want to argue that one can accept what scientific investigation and reasoning shows us, entirely, without giving up anything essential to Biblical revelation.

              The second thing has to with what Christians believe, now and historically. Briefly, I want to argue that there is a very large number of genuine, bible-believing, conservative Christians -- people who hold the historic, biblical Christian faith, who trust and obey the bible fully, who believe that Christ died and rose for our sins, and that He is God (the God who created all things) together with the Father and the Holy Spirit -- who also have no trouble with what scientific enterprise has come up with.

              Plainly, the first thing -- what is it possible to believe, logically speaking -- is primary, from a logical point of view, and the second -- what do many Christian people actually believe -- secondary. That is because what is at issue is truth. Is it possible, logically justifyable, to believe God, to believe the biblical revelation, without rejecting scientific findings? (I think it is!) The second thing is saying, so to speak, that many many Christians think so. What people think is a second-order thing; what is logical and true is primary, and what people think is logical and true ultimately depends on it. Obviously, that's a derivative matter: it says that quite a few people have come to the conclusion that one can without logical contradiction hold the historic Christian faith and scientific truth. However, I'm going to start with the second point, about what many Christians believe, because I think it helps one come to the first point.

              Many Christians see no contradiction between Biblical Revelation and Science

              Examples of Scientists
              You say that "most cosmologists" don't believe in a creator. But there are other voices, and generally they are much more informed voices. Not more informed about cosmology, but more informed about the relationship of the findings of science to what one might believe religiously.

              One example would be Owen Gingerich. Prof. Gingerich is Professor of Astronomy, Cosmology, and the History of Science, at Harvard University. He's a famous and distinguished scholar. Actually, as it happens, I heard him speak last week, discussing some of the issues you raised. He has books about these topics (I'll get back to you with the titles). Gingerich is a working scientist, an astronomer and cosmologist, and has recognition from scientists as a distinguished professional. That's why he's a prof -- a prof in the sciences -- at Harvard. Yet he's a believing Christian. Furthermore (this is not unimportant!) he's also a recognized scholar in the history and philosophy of science. That's to say, he thinks and writes about what the relationship of scientific findings is to the history of science and to what the implications of those findings are for philosophic and religious conclusions.

              Another example would be Francis Collins. Collins is the head of the human genome project, a very distinguished biologist and geneticist. Collins became a scientist long before he was a Christian. Later, after he already had a distinguished scientific career, his thinking turned to religion, and, influenced by the writing of people like the Christian apologist (and Oxford and Cambridge professor of literature) C.S. Lewis, became a strong Chistian believer. Without giving up anything of his scientific work, Collins also has spoken about Christ, giving testimony to Him, and explaining how he (Collins) came to believe, and why he thinks the Christian faith is true. He also has written at least one book about this matter.

              Another example would be Sir John Polikinghorn, a physicist and a member of the Royal Society (the highest scientific recognition Britain gives), and also a member of the clergy. Polkinghorn also has a distinguished scientific career and was knighted for his scientific contributions (another way Britain honors people); however for the past 20 years or so his main concern has been the relationship of science and the Christian faith. He has quite a number of books out. Polkinghorn is interested (inter alia) is the way in which indeterminacy -- both in quantum theory and in chaos theory -- expresses fundamental properties of the universe as it is constituted (the Creation) which build in to its mechanism a propensity to undetermined expression which is allows for human free will. Generally, Polikinghorn is a distinguished philosopher of science as well as a distinguished physical scientist. (This kind of career path happens to a number of eminent scientists, such as the physical chemist and philosopher of science Michael Polanyi.)

              The examples I have given you are of specific world-class figures, well known and well published on these topics. But they are not isolated examples. I myself know evangelical bible-believing Christians who are working scientists at major research universities, such as Yale, Harvard, major state universities and so on; serious, tenured research scientists, aware of all the matters you raised in your post, who do not see those matters as any serious infringement of biblical authority and reliability, and who continue as faithful believing Christians. Some of these people are close friends.

              The Christian Community: Background On Perceived Conflicts of Science and Religion
              There are lots of evangelical Christians -- many parts of the Christian community in the US, especially -- who see a kind of rivalry or incompatibility between sceince and religion, or science and Christian faith; and there are not a few atheistic scientists or populizers (many of them dishonest) who play up what they see as an incompatibility. And of course the main bases of information and intellecdtual power in our society -- the media, lots of parts of the universities, and so on -- are hostile to Christianity (without good reasons, and in a very prejudiced and uninformed way, IMO). This leads lots of biblical Christians to be wary of, or hostile toward, the process of scientific investigation, and the people who do it. Typically that hostility or wariness is expressed by some as a conflict between "Science" and faith, or a conspiratorial view about various scientific projects and enterprises. As you know, of course, this is most the case when it comes to evolution.

              The Christian Community: students and faculty
              But in fact at the vast majority of Christian educational institutions, and among intellectually serious Christian youth who go there, it's taken for granted that Christianity does not conflict with the scientific enterprise. I've known and worked with people from Wheaton, Calvin, Gordon, Messian, Hope, and other such Christian colleges all my professional life. Faculty there are serious Christians, who pray for their students, who are strong members at faithful evangelical churches, who defend the faith and often pay a price professionally for doing so, and who want more than anything else to help form those students as mature Christian men and women who will proclaim the gospel, believe the Christian faith, and walk closely with God and with the Lord Jesus Christ. Yet almost every faculty member -- in Bible and theology departments, in science departments, and in other departments -- has thought through the matter of what the Bible teaches and how that stacks up against scientific findings and theories and sees no incompatibility. The same would be true for the substantial majority -- probably almost all, but I don't know as many people from this group as well so I can't say for sure -- at many conservative theological seminaries: Gordon Conwell, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, Wheaton, and many denominational seminaries.

              The same is true for serious Christians who go, as students, to major educational institutions, and for the student groups that work with such students (Intervarsity, Campus Crusade, IFES -- the International Fellowship of Evangelical Students, which is the counterpart of Intervarsity overseas, and so on). Again, these are people I've worked with all my professional life; and I've worked with students -- both at Christian institutions and at secular instistutions -- for decades. There are lots of strong, conservative, biblically-faithful students who go to secular institutions, and not a few non-Christian or culturally Christian students who come to a strong, biblical faith which orients their entire lives toward Christ. Yet these are very serious academic students, who are serious and enthusiastic about their studies, undergraduate and graduate students, in the sciences, as well as in philosophy and theology and biblical studies and other fields. But generally these students work through their faith understandings in the time they are at college in a way that helps them see that there is no necessary incompatibility between Christian faith -- biblical, conservative, orthodox, historic Christian faith which affirms that God made all things and that his only son Jesus Christ became human, died for our sins, and rose from the dead -- and the findings of modern science. Again, only this week I was at a conference where I spoke with a good number of these students who are starting Christian campus magazines on their campuses (Harvard, Darmouth, and other less known schools).

              About Points of View on this Differing From Mine: A Caveat (spoken not to Sam but to those upset with my answer)
              Nothing that is said here is meant to take sides, nor to indicate any disrespect for those who hold to a view of the Bible which thinks that all passages must be interpreted "literally". I'm not arguing against that view. I'm not being unfriendly toward that view and those who hold it, nor do I feel such unfriendliness. I'm not criticizing it. I'm not suggesting that those who hold such views are lesser in any respect than those who do not. I'm not saying that those issues are unimportant.

              But I am rather concerned that those people, like Sam, who come to a position where they are unable to deny the accuracy of scientific findings which from a particular ("everything in the Bible must be literal") interpretive standpoint are able to see that there are other interpretive standpoints -- consistent, logical, and held by very many strong, biblically faithful Christians -- from which there are not contradictions that are destructive of Christian belief, although those who hold them may accept standard scientific findings. There are very many Christian people who come to understand and accept the findings, and the deep theoretical logic, of all aspects of modern science, though many with less deep study than Sam has. There are many people who initially adhere to those scientific points of view, and who then come to consider the claims of Christ and the Biblical revelation. My only concern here is to assure such people that there need be no fundamental problem in becoming, or remaining, a Christian while holding standard scientific views.



              Many Christians see no contradiction
              between Biblical Revelation and Science: Summary

              I have argued that many Christians -- including a great number of college students and professors who are Christians, and including a number of distinguished scientists, among whom are evolutionary biologists, astronomers, cosmologists, historians and philosophers of science, theologians and biblical scholars -- see no necessary contradiction between the findings of science (as accepted in the standard way, in universities and scientific publications) and faithful, biblical, robust Christian belief, which accepts miracles, and the resurrection of Christ from the dead, and which understands that God (the One God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) made all things and sustains them in being.

              It is entirely possible to believe the Christian truth revealed in the Bible while still adhering to the discoveries of modern science. That is what many, many serious Christian students, profs, scientists, philosophers, biblical scholars, and theologians think. We are not talking here about semi-Christian, explain-it-away, namby-pamby syncretistic, semi-Christians (of which mainline denominational seminaries produce all too many, and whose doctrine I detest), but about people who believe and proclaim the truth.
              The Christian truth is that God (the One God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) made all things, and that humankind fell and ruined our nature, alienating ourselves from God in sin, and that we have been saved by this, and this only: that God sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to take on human nature, and as a man to live and die and rise from the dead, so that by His death and resurrection we might be freed from sin and reconciled to God. Glory be to God, forever and ever. Amen.
              This is the truth that saves. It is the fundamental truth of the universe. It is the most interesting and beautiful thing in all the world, or in any possible world. It is the thing that gives us life within, and saves us from our sins. It is the truth that draws us to God and into the very life of God. I praise His holy name!! Glory be to God, and to His Only and Eternal Son Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, forever and ever! Amen!

              And, as I have stated, there is no contradiction, no serious tension, between Christian truth and the Biblical revelation and the findings of science. This is not just my idea. I have argued in detail, thus far, that many serious and distinguished scientists, many Christians (including many Christian students and profs, bible scholars, and theologians), having thought through these matters thoroughly, see no contradiction. But I have not yet presented in detail why many do not see a contradiction here. That was my first point, which I have yet to set forth in detailed and logical form. That is, I have yet to present a first-order argument about why it is that there is, as I have shown many to think, there is no contradiction I shall (as soon as I get time) do that next.

              Signing off until tomorrow

              Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until tomorrow, or possibly the day after, to finish my remarks. My apologies. A combo of work and personal responsibilities don't give me time to go on right now; but I will post more later.

              May God be with you, Sam, and guard your heart and mind in all you do! :hug"

              In friendship,
              Scruffy Kid
              Last edited by Scruffy Kid; Dec 16th 2007, 09:01 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you, Scruffy Kid.
                You are obviously very learned and I take courage from your post that there may well be light at the end of the tunnel for me.

                It's just that since some parts of the Bible contradict what I can SEE is not so makes me wonder how much else is false, or at least allegorical. And I can feel that thinking and dwelling on these things is sinful and bad and is pulling me away from the Love of our Savior.

                I look forward to the rest of your posts because I can see you really know your stuff!

                Regards,
                Sam

                Comment


                • #9
                  Right this minute I wish very much that I had more to offer...

                  Have you heard of "M" Theory (String) Theory? Here is a link that should enable you to learn more about it.
                  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/

                  Hearing about "M" Theory helped me.

                  I wish that I was intelligent enough about it to go into a lot of detail here. But, sadly, I am not.

                  It seems to me that I have heard Stephen Hawkings make comments that led me to think that he believes in a "higher power." And, am I right in thinking that Einstein did also?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey Sam,

                    By definition, a miracle overrides the laws of nature and physics.

                    Each believer's faith will be tested, and it would seem that yours is being tested. What is in your heart will be revealed to you through this process. If you look for reasons to believe, you will find them. If you look for reasons not to believe, you will find them.

                    I pray that the Lord will guide you in the truth.
                    Love In Christ,
                    Tanya






                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Saved! View Post
                      Right this minute I wish very much that I had more to offer...

                      Have you heard of "M" Theory (String) Theory? Here is a link that should enable you to learn more about it.
                      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/

                      Hearing about "M" Theory helped me.

                      I wish that I was intelligent enough about it to go into a lot of detail here. But, sadly, I am not.

                      It seems to me that I have heard Stephen Hawkings make comments that led me to think that he believes in a "higher power." And, am I right in thinking that Einstein did also?
                      Yeah, I've read briefly about String and 'M' theories and quite frankly, I think they are tying themselves up in knots.

                      As for Einstein and Hawking... I'm not sure what Hawking believes, but in his "Brief History Of Time", I don't think his "Knowing the Mind of God" was meant spiritually at all.
                      Also, I know that Einstein was definitely not Christian (or any other specific religion, for that matter.) I reckon he believed in some Higher Power, but not at a personal level like we know our Father. Every time I see fellow Christians quote his "God does not play dice" I cringe, because that argument does us no favors.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Scruffy Kid View Post
                        Dear Sam,
                        Welcome to Bibleforums!

                        Examples of Scientists
                        You say that "most cosmologists" don't believe in a creator. But there are other voices, and generally they are much more informed voices. Not more informed about cosmology, but more informed about the relationship of the findings of science to what one might believe religiously.

                        One example would be Owen Gingerich. Prof. Gingerich is Professor of Astronomy, Cosmology, and the History of Science, at Harvard University. He's a famous and distinguished scholar.

                        Another example would be Francis Collins. Collins is the head of the human genome project, a very distinguished biologist and geneticist.

                        Another example would be Sir John Polkinghorne, a physicist and a member of the Royal Society (the highest scientific recognition Britain gives), and also a member of the clergy.
                        May God be with you, Sam, and guard your heart and mind in all you do! :hug"

                        In friendship,
                        Scruffy Kid
                        So I went and looked for these scientists on the 'net.
                        Owen Gingerich and Francis Collins both come with a lot of credentials to their names. They are both Evolutionists! From what I understand about evolution, it is directly contrary to the Word, both in terms of the Bible, and in terms of the Word in John 1:1. If God did not make man specially, if God did not breath into Adam to animate him, If death existed before Adam, then the entire doctrine of 'Original Sin' being the cause of earthly death falls flat. And if Original Sin falls flat, then so does the Atonement. If evolution is true, then Jesus died in vain. I can't accept that as truth.
                        I have a problem with some of the obvious scientific problems but not with the main doctrine. If the doctrine of Christianity is false, then what is TRUTH?

                        I'm sorry, man, you've just confused me and made me upset.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey Sam, I hope that you will consider seeing the movie Expelled when it comes out in February.

                          Also here's a creationist cosmologist that I know about:

                          D. Russell Humphreys
                          You can read of more Christian scientists. I would also recommend reading the ICR website. You can contact them through email and they will dialogue with you personally.
                          Love In Christ,
                          Tanya






                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sam Fisher View Post
                            My work requires me to use and maintain many sophisticated electronic instruments. A few months ago, I had a particularly difficult time with a GPS (Global Positioning System) device which seemed to be working, but just wasn't producing the correct results. Eventually I began studying the principles on which this device operates. I thought I knew - You're simply triangulating the positions of a herd of satellites from the GPS antenna. That's correct, but it is far deeper than that. Special relativity plays a part, and once I started looking into relativity (and it was heavy going in the beginning) a whole new world of wonder opened up to me in a way I'd never experienced before.

                            I've still got faith, and that is not in doubt. It's what I believe now that is worrying me. Relativity has taken me on a journey into cosmology (the study of the stars, space, and time) and almost all cosmologists don't believe in God at all. I was shocked to read about how they deny our Heavenly Father's authority, but their arguments about how space and matter and energy 'works' is so obvious, so alluring, that I can't get it out of my head! It collides head-on with Genesis, and they can't both be right. Either Science is false, or Genesis is false, or both are false. Every cell of my body screams out that the Bible can't be false, but I can no longer believe it. I can't feel it as truth any longer.

                            It's driving me insane! What can I do?
                            Only this afternoon I was talking with one of the guys at church about the origins of the Bible. I'm a scientist in terms of what I studied at school but I won't pretend to understand the extreme details of quantum physics. He's a physicist so has a better understanding of these things than I do. He also has a vastly deeper knowledge of the Bible than I do.

                            If we read the book of Genesis it had to be written in terms that we can understand now, and also that early man would understand. If the book of Genesis described how God took a strand of DNA from one creature, modified it and enhanced it and created another creature from it, the chances are somewhere along the line it would have been discarded because nobody understood what it was talking about.

                            Likewise if early man had read a description about how the earth revolved around the Sun and the details of relativity, nobody would have understood the writings so they would probably have been discarded. Compared to modern understanding the notion that gravitational attraction = GmM / R^2 is pretty simplistic, but imagine how utterly useless it would have been to someone in the time of Moses who probably assumed the earth was flat, because there was no reason to think anything else.

                            Incidentally the theory of relativity is exactly that, a theory. It seems to explain a lot but has yet to be promoted to a theorem.

                            Personally I find myself often wondering in amazement (and sometimes in doubt) at what I see and what I read, but if we are dealing with a God who is outside of space and time as we know them there seems to reason to doubt that God could have done all these things. Just as someone living in a two-dimensional world would struggle to comprehend the powers of a being who could move in a third dimension, so we live in a three-dimensional world (four if you count time, I suppose) and a God who moves in one more dimension can pull things out of the bag that baffle us. Perhaps they work in four dimensions but apparently not in three.

                            I remember reading years ago a comment about physics which is simplistic on the face of it, but an interesting idea. If we regard the laws of physics as the way God normally leaves things to work then miracles don't become quite so impossible. Normally God keeps things regular for our convenience - think of the chaos if gravity only worked some of the time, for example. But when it is required God can bend the rules for a time.

                            One final thought - you are studying how space, time, matter and energy work. What (or who) made them work that way?
                            24 August 2013 - I've decided to take a break from a number of internet forums, including this one, for my own reasons.
                            I expect to be back at some time in the future, although at present don't know when that will be.
                            I've been here just a few days shy of six years, and those six years have been greatly blessed.

                            ---

                            1Jn 4:1 NKJV Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
                            1Th 5:21-22 NKJV Test all things; hold fast what is good. (22) Abstain from every form of evil.



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                            • #15
                              Hi Sam. I just read through this thread. If God were going to stop the earth, don't you think he would also stop the water, seas, people, etc. and everything else on the earth too? He knows the laws of physics because he made them. So stopping the earth's rotation means he would stop everything on the earth as well. If he didn't do that, then a big catastrophe would have resulted as you already mentioned.
                              Matt 9:13
                              13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                              NASU

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