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  • married life in the resurrection

    Since the first month that I became a Christ follower, I was taught that when I was given my resurrected body, I would no longer be married to my wife. I was told that instead, we'd all be one, and we'd all be married to Jesus, because we are corporately His bride. And when I responded that this teaching simply didn't ring true in my spirit (that everyone would then be one with my wife), and that it certainly didn't make me happy, I was told to think about two things: 1) that I had said in my vows, "until death do we part", and 2) to read Matt. 22:23-33. Well, having read that passage and thought about the words of our wedding vow, I still hated that I would no longer be married to my wife, but that everyone would have with her what I alone have with her now (they were by no means talking about anything sexual, but still a one-ness that only she and I share). I thought that Jesus taught that whatever God joined together was never to be separated (Matt. 19:6)? I was distraught and confused, being very unsettled about this entire issue for quite some time. That is, until just a few weeks ago...

    A teacher and friend of mine gave me a new perspective on Matt. 22:23-33, and I'd like to see what you all think about it...

    Matthew 22 (NKJV)
    23 ...the Sadducees, who say that there is no resurrection [they also do not believe in angels - see v.30; Luke 20:36], came to (Jesus) and asked Him, 24 saying: "Teacher, Moses said that if a man dies, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up offspring for his brother.

    "25 Now there were with us seven brothers. The first died after he had married, and having no offspring, left his wife to his brother. 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, even to the seventh. 27 Last of all the woman died also.

    "28 Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had her."

    29 Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. (The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage - Luke 20:34) 30 [But] in the resurrection they (who are counted worthy to attain that age - Luke 20:35) neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven (nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection - Luke 20:36).

    "31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read (in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage - Mark 12:26) what was spoken to you by God [they also believed that only the Pentateuch was inspired of God], saying, '32 I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (for all live to Him - Luke 20:38)."

    33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at His teaching...

    Okay, so, what exactly is going on here? A group of people who do not believe in the resurrection, asks Jesus a question about the resurrection, but for what reason? Are they looking for Jesus to give them a teaching on the resurrection? No! - Jesus would have responded much differently had Peter, James, and John approached Him with this question. So can we say that He answered their question, seeing as how they only asked it in order to "entangle Him in His talk" (v.15)? Perhaps... I think that He did (my teacher / friend does not think so, but I find it hard to believe that Jesus may have misled the multitudes who heard this by not actually answering).

    This is what I now think Jesus was really saying here about marriage and the resurrection (we must keep it in context with the surrounding story): What exactly is said will not happen in the resurrection? Is there any mention of those who are already married? No! (This is the new perspective I was talking about.) And what exactly is the question Jesus is answering? A man, married to a woman, dies, and gives his wife in marriage to his brother, and they are married. This is what Jesus says will not happen in the resurrection (v.30)!



    Do you see what this means?! I (and I alone) will still be married to my wife for all of eternity! Yeah! Hallelujah! Granted, I'm not so sure that He answered the question that I now have, which is their question (but asked sincerely), "will she be married to all seven, or just the first, since all had sexual relations with her?", and other similar questions, but it may have something to do with it being a law of Moses' "because of the hardness of their hearts" (Matt. 19:8)...? I don't know - all I know is that my wife will forever be my wife, and that gives me such a joy that I just had to share this with you all!

    If you disagree, please, by all means, talk with me! What are your reactions to what I've presented here?

    - Lk.11
    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

    *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

  • #2
    Adam was separated into Adam and Eve.
    Yet, they were a part of Jesus from the beginning.

    They will yet again be one flesh (joined together again), and still in Jesus.

    Seeing the trees for the forest - or the forest through the trees.
    That is what it takes to understand.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Duane Morse View Post
      Adam was separated into Adam and Eve.
      Yet, they were a part of Jesus from the beginning.

      They will yet again be one flesh (joined together again), and still in Jesus.
      Wha...? I am way confused by what you mean here. Adam came from the dust, and Eve came from Adam. Adam wasn't "separated" into two persons. And, in my case, being married, I wasn't separated into two persons either... And Christ isn't divided... What exactly are you saying, and how does this relate to Matt. 22:23-33?

      Originally posted by Duane Morse View Post
      Seeing the trees for the forest - or the forest through the trees.
      That is what it takes to understand.
      Well "that", and some sort of a decoding device to understand what you mean by "that".
      analyze. synthesize. repeat.

      *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

      Comment


      • #4
        The marriage relationship between a husband and a woman is a type of the relationship between Christ and the church:
        Eph 5:28-32
        28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
        Because marriage is a type of the relationship of Christ and the church, there will be no more marriage in the resurrection. We will have and experience the fulfillment of the type. We will have the substance of the shadow. The husband is a symbol of Christ, and the wife is a symbol of the church.

        It isn't that everyone is going to have an intimate relationship with your wife. You are rightly jealous of that relationship. But in the resurrection, things will be different. Don't worry about it! Enjoy your wife. Enjoy your marriage. Keep Christ in the center of it. And I pray that the Lord will give you peace about it in time.
        Love In Christ,
        Tanya






        Comment


        • #5
          I'm not quite sure how you came to your opinion from the reading to be honest.

          What you state at the beginning still rings true to me, that the one-ness, the closeness we only have with our spouses in this life, we will have with everyone in heaven through Jesus. We will 'know' each other completely. Intimacy in the terms we understand it will not really exist, but we will all be 'as one' with each other.
          Call to Me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known. Jeremiah 33:3
          You put the stars in the sky and you know them by name, You see the depths of my heart and You love me the same, You are amazing, God.
          I do not 'hope' I am saved and I do not 'think' I am saved, I know it with an absolute conviction. I know that I am saved just as I know that I think and I know that I feel. I am purchased and sealed, His possession.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
            The marriage relationship between a husband and a woman is a type of the relationship between Christ and the church:
            Eph 5:28-32
            28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
            Because marriage is a type of the relationship of Christ and the church, there will be no more marriage in the resurrection. We will have and experience the fulfillment of the type. We will have the substance of the shadow. The husband is a symbol of Christ, and the wife is a symbol of the church.
            When types are fulfilled, are the types then abolished...? Not necessarily, because then the fulfillment would also have to have an end. And no, because we still have marriage today, even though we're also married to Jesus today. What I mean is, is that if my marriage is a picture of Christ and His church, then if my marriage ends, then Jesus' marriage to His church is not eternal either. See what I mean?

            Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
            It isn't that everyone is going to have an intimate relationship with your wife. You are rightly jealous of that relationship. But in the resurrection, things will be different. Don't worry about it! Enjoy your wife. Enjoy your marriage. Keep Christ in the center of it. And I pray that the Lord will give you peace about it in time.
            I do have a peace about it (finally!), because I now understand Matt. 22:23-33 rightly! My marriage to my wife continues in the resurrection - it never ends! We've all been reading this passage incorrectly! He's not saying that marriage ends, but rather quite the opposite! In Luke's account it is made much more plain: we live to God now, because God is the God of the living - a believer, married, who falls asleep, remains married to his / her spouse because he / she is not truly dead (otherwise God is not their God, as He is not the God of the dead); therefore, in the resurrection, we will neither marry nor will we be given in marriage to our sleeping saint's sibling(s) upon their falling asleep, as the sons of the resurrection can not die! I am a son of the resurrection today, because I have the Holy Spirit! Ha ha! God is so good to us! Amen?

            - Lk.11
            analyze. synthesize. repeat.

            *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ImmenseDisciple View Post
              I'm not quite sure how you came to your opinion from the reading to be honest.

              What you state at the beginning still rings true to me, that the one-ness, the closeness we only have with our spouses in this life, we will have with everyone in heaven through Jesus. We will 'know' each other completely. Intimacy in the terms we understand it will not really exist, but we will all be 'as one' with each other.
              Sure, but you're not going to be married to my wife - only I will be. I'll still have a special bond with her that no one else can have; a marriage covenant with her. And what is the consummation of marriage...? Will we be sexless in our resurrected bodies? Of course not! Jesus is and will forever be a Man, as will I! My wife and I, if resurrected bodies sleep (which, I'm inclined to think that we will), the two of us will still sleep in the same bed; a bed of our own. And we will still consummate our marriage - I doubt in order for child birth (though, being a new father and loving it, I'm not fully settled about that either), but surely to ever bring fulfillment to our marriage... God made sex to be within the confines of marriage and He called it good: I don't know how else to say it.

              I really love talking about this! What are everyone's thoughts? - Lk.11
              analyze. synthesize. repeat.

              *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

              Comment


              • #8
                And if you two are one again - one?
                In mind, soul, and body?

                No more twain, but joined as one - mentally, spiritually, emotionally, physically... ONE! ???


                There would be no more a physical interaction between you two - because you two would be joined in and as the same physical entity.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I see what you mean, but this is exactly what Jesus was talking about. The Sadducees asked Jesus whose wife the woman would be in the resurrection, if she had had 7 husbands in her lifetime. They of course didn't believe in the resurrection. Jesus tells them that in the resurrection, there is no marriage. People will be like the angels. If marriage remained in the resurrection, then would a woman who is widowed and remarried have two husbands in the resurrection? If you are dissatisfied with Jesus' answer, what is your answer to the Sadducees' question? Whose wife would the woman be, since she had 7 husbands?

                  I don't agree that it necessarily follows that if marriage ends, it means our relationship with Christ is not eternal. The types are not exact representations of every aspect of the thing they represent. They are just types and shadows.

                  I now understand Matt. 22:23-33 rightly! My marriage to my wife continues in the resurrection - it never ends! We've all been reading this passage incorrectly! He's not saying that marriage ends, but rather quite the opposite!
                  Sometimes our emotions get in the way of rightly dividing the word of truth.

                  In Luke's account it is made much more plain: we live to God now, because God is the God of the living - a believer, married, who falls asleep, remains married to his / her spouse because he / she is not truly dead (otherwise God is not their God, as He is not the God of the dead); therefore, in the resurrection, we will neither marry nor will we be given in marriage to our sleeping saint's sibling(s) upon their falling asleep, as the sons of the resurrection can not die! I am a son of the resurrection today, because I have the Holy Spirit! Ha ha! God is so good to us! Amen?
                  I agree that God is good to us, but I cannot "amen" your comments. If you were correct, and if one or the other of you were to die young, and the other remarried, then they would be committing adultery. But it is not adultery for a widowed person to remarry. The reason is that the law binds husband and wife together until death. Physical death, even though spiritually the believer has not died, still separates husband and wife and releases the surviving spouse from the marriage, freeing them to marry again.
                  Rom 7:1-3

                  Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband . 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
                  Love In Christ,
                  Tanya






                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Duane Morse View Post
                    And if you two are one again - one?
                    In mind, soul, and body?

                    No more twain, but joined as one - mentally, spiritually, emotionally, physically... ONE! ???


                    There would be no more a physical interaction between you two - because you two would be joined in and as the same physical entity.
                    I've never heard anyone say such a thing. No. I will forever be myself, and she will forever be herself. What is your biblical evidence? How far would that go? Will we all share one body, even with Jesus? And what about those who take part in the resurrection of the unjust - will they all be one body as well? This just doesn't make any sense, nor is this desirable! Then Jesus wouldn't be Jesus anymore, and we'd all be God. No. I see your heart and I can kind of see your logic, but your logic is flawed. God loves me. Heck, I love me! I just can't see what you're saying in Scripture, as it is not a desire of God's. Marriage (sexual intimacy) between a man and a woman tells us what biblical one-ness is - never does Jesus or anyone else in the Bible talk about one-ness in the way that you have. And so I have to reject that idea, and I suggest that you do as well. - Lk.11
                    analyze. synthesize. repeat.

                    *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Death is a valid end to a marriage, otherwise Paul wouldn't have recommended that younger widows re-marry. But just b/c death ends a marriage doesn't mean there won't be a special intimacy with your former spouse in eternity. Why wouldn't there be? I'm not of the persuasion that our memories are wiped clean. We'll still have a history of love with that person and a special commitment. Our relationship with that person will certainly be heightened in comparison to that person's relationship with the rest of mankind in eternity. I expect we'll still have deeper relationships with our spouse, our family, our church family, etc.
                      The Matthew Never Knew
                      The Knew Kingdom

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by astrongerthanhe View Post
                        Sure, but you're not going to be married to my wife - only I will be. I'll still have a special bond with her that no one else can have; a marriage covenant with her. And what is the consummation of marriage...? Will we be sexless in our resurrected bodies? Of course not! Jesus is and will forever be a Man, as will I! My wife and I, if resurrected bodies sleep (which, I'm inclined to think that we will), the two of us will still sleep in the same bed; a bed of our own. And we will still consummate our marriage - I doubt in order for child birth (though, being a new father and loving it, I'm not fully settled about that either), but surely to ever bring fulfillment to our marriage... God made sex to be within the confines of marriage and He called it good: I don't know how else to say it.

                        I really love talking about this! What are everyone's thoughts? - Lk.11
                        Interesting

                        Forgive my (inevitable & frequent) ignorance, but- where do we get the marriage vows from? Is there a biblical source for "until death us do part" or not?

                        Because of course, the main issue is when God considers the marriage to end. If it ended at death, that would rather suggest a marriage exclusively of the flesh, which seems to go against what he wants for us... Hmm...
                        Call to Me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known. Jeremiah 33:3
                        You put the stars in the sky and you know them by name, You see the depths of my heart and You love me the same, You are amazing, God.
                        I do not 'hope' I am saved and I do not 'think' I am saved, I know it with an absolute conviction. I know that I am saved just as I know that I think and I know that I feel. I am purchased and sealed, His possession.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Rejoice! You will be with your wife for eternity! Just not as it is down here.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ImmenseDisciple View Post
                            Is there a biblical source for "until death us do part" or not?

                            Because of course, the main issue is when God considers the marriage to end. If it ended at death, that would rather suggest a marriage exclusively of the flesh, which seems to go against what he wants for us... Hmm...
                            I agree that this is the main issue. I think the Bible is the basis for the 'till death' clause (not in terms of specific wording, but in terms of principle).

                            1 Timothy 5:14
                            So I counsel younger widows to marry

                            Romans 7:1-3
                            1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
                            The Matthew Never Knew
                            The Knew Kingdom

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                              I see what you mean, but this is exactly what Jesus was talking about. The Sadducees asked Jesus whose wife the woman would be in the resurrection, if she had had 7 husbands in her lifetime. They of course didn't believe in the resurrection.
                              The Sadducees were attempting, in their craftiness, to catch Jesus in His words, that they might show Him before the people to be false, that the people would turn against Him. They did not have a legitimate concern about this probable situation - they were ultimately seeking to kill Jesus. The Sadducees were afraid of the resurrection, and with all their strength squelched the teaching of the resurrection from the dead (as did the Romans), because the teaching was that the lowly would be put in power, and those in power now would then be made to be slaves - Luke 1:50-53 (and because if an army could raise the dead, they would be an unstoppable force). Jesus was saying here that they would have no place in His kingdom, and the crowd, being mostly the poor, marveled at His teaching.

                              Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                              Jesus tells them that in the resurrection, there is no marriage.
                              Is that what He says? No. He's answering a specific question. What's the question? The question entails a woman who is given in marriage and becomes married to her dead husband's siblings. Jesus says that this will not happen in the resurrection, because there will be no death in the resurrection.

                              Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                              People will be like the angels.
                              And what does He mean here? Do you have some insight into angelic life that no one else has, such as them being sexless or perhaps celibate? Rather, Jesus tells them what He means by that (Luke 20:36) - that the sons of the resurrection are sons of God, just like the elect angels, and can no longer die. Us being like the angels has nothing to do with marriage, but is about eternal life and son-ship.

                              Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                              If marriage remained in the resurrection, then would a woman who is widowed and remarried have two husbands in the resurrection? If you are dissatisfied with Jesus' answer, what is your answer to the Sadducees' question? Whose wife would the woman be, since she had 7 husbands?
                              Jesus' answer is not that no one will be married in the resurrection! His answer is this: "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God" (Matt. 22:29)! That's His answer! I don't get it and I don't have an answer, though I've been praying and thinking about this hard. I mean, Solomon had seven hundred wives! All those mentioned in this passage but Isaac had more than one wife: Moses (Ex. 2:21; Num. 12:1), Abraham (Gen. 11:29; 16:3; 25:1), and Jacob (Gen. 29:23; 29:28), which I find very interesting...

                              Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                              Sometimes our emotions get in the way of rightly dividing the word of truth.
                              True. Check yourself as well.

                              Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                              I agree that God is good to us, but I cannot "amen" your comments. If you were correct, and if one or the other of you were to die young, and the other remarried, then they would be committing adultery. But it is not adultery for a widowed person to remarry. The reason is that the law binds husband and wife together until death. Physical death, even though spiritually the believer has not died, still separates husband and wife and releases the surviving spouse from the marriage, freeing them to marry again.
                              Rom 7:1-3

                              Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband . 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
                              Why'd you leave off verse 4...? "Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another - to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God." I don't see the phrase "that you may instead be married to another", do you? Who says that it's adultery to remarry when our spouse passes away (or even to have more than one wife at a time, as witnessed in the lives of the patriarchs - though now we are not encouraged to do this; 1 Cor. 7:2)? Not me, and not Rom. 7:3 (which actually says that she will not be an adulteress). And what is "the law of her husband" (v.2), in context to the passage at large? Remember, Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it, and we are to fulfill the law too, by loving our neighbors as ourselves, and loving God with our everything... So what is Paul talking about here? When he says "husband", he is talking about the law; when he says "wife", he is talking about all people; and when he says "dies", he is talking about our belief in the cross. So it's not "until death parts you", because we are told in v.3 that she has married another man (in addition to her first). We are to keep the law, because all sin is lawlessness. Is this clear?

                              - Lk.11
                              analyze. synthesize. repeat.

                              *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

                              Comment

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