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Pondering Roe versus Wade

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  • Originally posted by jeffreys View Post
    You're right.

    My point is that Christians MUST do more than just protest abortion. If we're actually going to make a difference, we need to do what Jesus did - which is, get involved personally. I know that we can't fix everybody, but we can help some. And I know that there are immoral women (as well as men, obviously) who care nothing about illicit sex or life, but there are also women who are struggling with the decision, and may very well choose life if somebody helped them in that direction.
    As a body, yes. But each person in the body responds differently and may have a different assignment from the Lord.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

    Comment


    • I am not sure if someone has made this point already, since this topic has many post and I can't read them all.

      Using this thread's originator's logic, we should have let the holocaust happen, and that is just one example. In the Holocaust they murdered Jews, with abortion they murder babies. The Nazis saw killing Jews as Social Darwinism, and therefore it was alright. We forced our morals on them. Was that wrong? The US has murdered more humans than the Nazis. That is sad, and that is my nation. I will do what is right and I am in favor of ending abortion in all circumstances, though I doubt that will ever happen in America.
      While you are on this site, don't debate to win and prove yourself right, but discuss to learn and find truth, and to encourage through a humble spirit. God Bless

      Ephesians 4:1-3
      As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MLC View Post
        I am not sure if someone has made this point already, since this topic has many post and I can't read them all.

        Using this thread's originator's logic, we should have let the holocaust happen, and that is just one example. In the Holocaust they murdered Jews, with abortion they murder babies. The Nazis saw killing Jews as Social Darwinism, and therefore it was alright. We forced our morals on them. Was that wrong? The US has murdered more humans than the Nazis. That is sad, and that is my nation. I will do what is right and I am in favor of ending abortion in all circumstances, though I doubt that will ever happen in America.
        Do not put words in my mouth, that is a ridiculous comparison. So now we are equating women who have abortions to nazis? Fail.

        Comment


        • The only difference is the women are usually far more ignorant of their crimes.

          Also, I never put words in your mouth, I only followed your train of logic to point out what I see as the flaw. In no way do I think you were against stopping the holocaust. I'll elaborate if you would like, but killing an unborn baby is murder, is it not? Also, in what way is it a ridiculous comparison? Murder is not relative, it is an absolute, and it is wrong.
          While you are on this site, don't debate to win and prove yourself right, but discuss to learn and find truth, and to encourage through a humble spirit. God Bless

          Ephesians 4:1-3
          As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MLC View Post
            The only difference is the women are usually far more ignorant of their crimes.

            Also, I never put words in your mouth, I only followed your train of logic to point out what I see as the flaw. In no way do I think you were against stopping the holocaust. I'll elaborate if you would like, but killing an unborn baby is murder, is it not? Also, in what way is it a ridiculous comparison? Murder is not relative, it is an absolute, and it is wrong.
            Oh my my

            Some women who abort may be immoral and cold hearted. There are many women who abort due to lack of information or desperation. Comparing them to nazis is so wrong. How many women have been guilt ridden to the point of near breakdown after aborting? Are they evil? They made a bad choice, they are far from evil.

            Once they come to understand abortion is murder they repent, are forgiven and they never forget. For anyone to speak so harshly about them is insulting at best.
            The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. Psalm 23

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MLC View Post
              The only difference is the women are usually far more ignorant of their crimes.

              Also, I never put words in your mouth, I only followed your train of logic to point out what I see as the flaw. In no way do I think you were against stopping the holocaust. I'll elaborate if you would like, but killing an unborn baby is murder, is it not? Also, in what way is it a ridiculous comparison? Murder is not relative, it is an absolute, and it is wrong.
              I would beg to differ that women are more ignorant of the moral crime of abortion. If you are pregnant and look towards abortion, they are looking to avoid a child. Their thoughts go to how to provide, how it will change their lives, embarassment, I'm sure there are many more reasons. They are not ignorant, they are without hope.

              And, although morbid, I'd like to see where you got those statistics.
              Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
              Not second or third, but first.
              Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
              when He is the source of all hope,
              when His love is received and freely given,
              holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
              will all other things be added unto to you.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MLC View Post
                The only difference is the women are usually far more ignorant of their crimes.

                Also, I never put words in your mouth, I only followed your train of logic to point out what I see as the flaw. In no way do I think you were against stopping the holocaust. I'll elaborate if you would like, but killing an unborn baby is murder, is it not? Also, in what way is it a ridiculous comparison? Murder is not relative, it is an absolute, and it is wrong.
                You really are not going to win any female fans with that sentiment. I think it is a ridiculous comparison because the Nazi's were determined to exterminate anyone who did not fit their idea of a model person (Aryan). Women who feel that they have no other choice and whom probably follow the flawed logic that it is not truly a child cannot be compared to the systematic attempt to wipe an entire race of people off of the face of the earth.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by I<3Jesus View Post
                  You really are not going to win any female fans with that sentiment. I think it is a ridiculous comparison because the Nazi's were determined to exterminate anyone who did not fit their idea of a model person (Aryan). Women who feel that they have no other choice and whom probably follow the flawed logic that it is not truly a child cannot be compared to the systematic attempt to wipe an entire race of people off of the face of the earth.
                  I tend to agree. However, the abortion political machine can be compared to nazism. However, I think many women who have abortions are victims of deception about the sin just as we all are guilty of deception of the sins we commit.
                  Matt 9:13
                  13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                  NASU

                  Comment


                  • Some women who abort may be immoral and cold hearted. There are many women who abort due to lack of information or desperation. Comparing them to nazis is so wrong. How many women have been guilt ridden to the point of near breakdown after aborting? Are they evil? They made a bad choice, they are far from evil.

                    Once they come to understand abortion is murder they repent, are forgiven and they never forget. For anyone to speak so harshly about them is insulting at best.
                    Seeker, you misinterpreted my post since that is what I said and I agree with you there. Many women are ignorant of their crimes, which should in one way be taken as in "due to lack of information or desperation", they do not understand the extent of their crime. They do not see it as murder. Also, I never compared the women to the Nazis, read my post again and there is no need to jump to such conclusions. All I said was that he said we shouldn't impose our morals by stopping abortion, but wasn't it our morals that made us think the Holocaust was wrong? We imposed our morals on them. I was simply saying that when it comes to murder we should impose our morals. Also, of course a woman can repent, just as a Nazi could. Everyone can repent.

                    Also, just in the US since Roe V. Wade, over 50 million children have been murdered. That far surpasses the holocaust and that is just in America since the 70's. Once again though, do not assume I am comparing a woman to Hitler.

                    I would beg to differ that women are more ignorant of the moral crime of abortion. If you are pregnant and look towards abortion, they are looking to avoid a child. Their thoughts go to how to provide, how it will change their lives, embarassment, I'm sure there are many more reasons. They are not ignorant, they are without hope.
                    Threebigrocks, I would say each woman is different. Many simply do not believe a fetus is a life and do not think it is murder, (I don't think that is always the case though) while on the other hand Nazis knew that the they were killing and taking life. For the most part, I would say they are more ignorant of their crimes.

                    And, although morbid, I'd like to see where you got those statistics. Not that I'd doubt them, but maybe
                    Do you mean the number about the US aborting more humans than the Nazis killed? That is true, around 43 million (or at leat in the 40's) people were killed in WW2, and not all of those were caused by the Germans. Over 50 million babies have been aborted in the US as I said before. That means the US has murdered more humans than the Nazis.

                    You really are not going to win any female fans with that sentiment. I think it is a ridiculous comparison because the Nazi's were determined to exterminate anyone who did not fit their idea of a model person (Aryan). Women who feel that they have no other choice and whom probably follow the flawed logic that it is not truly a child cannot be compared to the systematic attempt to wipe an entire race of people off of the face of the earth.
                    Ilovejesus, just because I compare them in one area does not mean I compare them in all areas. A cheetah can be compared to a Giraffe because they both have spots, but that doesn't mean the cheetah has a long neck.

                    My comparison was not of the women and the Nazis as unethical people, but I was comparing our actions towards their actions. I only pointed out the flaw in your logic, no offense intended. I was simply saying we have every right to impose our morals on others when it comes to murder; we did it in WW2 and we should do it again.
                    While you are on this site, don't debate to win and prove yourself right, but discuss to learn and find truth, and to encourage through a humble spirit. God Bless

                    Ephesians 4:1-3
                    As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

                    Comment


                    • Actually - I can see the analogy. Only in that many German's at the trial tried that logic for a defense of what they did. They said that they didn't break any laws (the laws in Germany were written so that they could exteminate the Jews). If you take that logic far enough, by taking that stance they were in effect saying 'our laws allowed it, therefore you are forcing your beliefs on us by saying we broke laws' ...

                      The OP asked the question: do we really want to start trying to push our beliefs on the secular world? Since it is lawful to abort a child, then by trying to change that law we are trying to push our beliefs on the secular world.

                      The answer is that at the German trials - the judge stated that the German's broke a higher law than man's law. Roe V Wade puts us in a position that we're not breaking man's law, but we are breaking a higher law.
                      "He comforts us in all our trouble, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in every trouble, through the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God." 2 Cor 1:4

                      "forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead," Phil 3:13


                      "For our citizenship is in heaven, ..." Phil 3:20

                      Click here if you were wounded spiritually after abortion.
                      Click here if you are pregnant and need help.
                      Click here if you have been raped and are looking for help

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by I<3Jesus View Post

                        but do we really want to start trying to push our beliefs on the secular world? What happens when that backfires and they start pushing back? What happens when they start pushing their beliefs on us? When they start taking away our rights? ?

                        I'm afraid they already are my friend.
                        Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                          I tend to agree. However, the abortion political machine can be compared to nazism. However, I think many women who have abortions are victims of deception about the sin just as we all are guilty of deception of the sins we commit.
                          That is why we need to save souls!!!!! tell people how to get saved.

                          Before I was saved I was pro-choice, liberal to the core.

                          But, man didn't change my mind God did. When I was born again, God changed my heart so that I could recognize sin. When I realized God created the life at conception and killing it is murder......my concept of abortion changed.

                          The way to stop abortions, is to win people to Christ....We as Chrsitians shouls be out there working with pregnancy centers and talking to women, trying to lead them to Jesus.

                          I have seen this many times...a changed heart...brings about changed behavior.

                          God Bless

                          Alaina

                          Comment


                          • Are we really pushing our beliefs on others?

                            I think many assumptions about the ‘necessity’ of or ‘reason’ for abortion have been either taken for granted as ‘common sense’ or based on flimsy to non-existent research. I think the pro-abortion movement would like us to believe that abortion is a ‘natural’ choice or ‘natural’ right when it really is not.
                            God’s laws are written into our hearts, and this is proven in part by the tendency of most persons & countries to adopt the 10 commandments as a standard of living, regardless of religious leanings. It is proved in the fact that in a desperate situation, most pregnant women, if forced to choose between their own life and the life of their unborn child, will generally choose the unborn child. It is proved in the fact that most treasure the sanctity of life, and are appalled by murder in any form. It is proved also in the struggle of many, many women, both before and after the event, who have been shoved into abortions by aggressive clinics.
                            I think that most women faced with the possibility of abortion do not have the facts, and if they knew the facts, would choose not to. I think that the pro-life movement has in the past actually been a ‘stabilizing’ or ‘intermediary’ force between abortion clinics and the radicals who bomb them. I think the pro-life movement has been the primary educational source for many pregnant women seeking abortion, who were not aware of the truths and realities of the choice they were considering. I think the pro-life movement does more to truly protect the pregnant woman than does the pro-abortion movement, who’s primary claim is to ‘protect’ that woman’s rights.
                            The attachment is a more detailed & 'factually' supported response for some of these opinions.
                            Website used: http://www.abortionfacts.com/parsing..._arguments.asp

                            Other websites:
                            http://realweb.ifastnet.com/stats.html
                            http://www.nrlc.org/news/2003/NRL01/randy.html
                            http://ehealthforum.com/health/topic49760.htmlreally
                            Attached Files
                            I have struggled with depression for most of my life. God created me this way to struggle with this issue. I do not understand why, and probably never will. I choose to put my faith in Him anyway, and to love Him regardless of what my life brings. He is my Savior, and my life belongs to Him.

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