Pondering Roe versus Wade

[Brother Mark]

Let's not make this personal. We can each present a case without making personal accusations.

[I<3Jesus]

Let's not make this personal. We can each present a case without making personal accusations.

Where is there a personal accusation? It is clear, by the comments that WG wrote in this thread, that he or she is taking things way too personally. I find it best to skip threads that make me upset. Edited to add: I had to learn it the hard way too.

[Seeker of truth]

Where is there a personal accusation? It is clear, by the comments that WG wrote in this thread, that he or she is taking things way too personally. I find it best to skip threads that make me upset.

Sweetie, I have known WG for years and I have a deep respect for her. She stands up for her beliefs and does not back down when doing so.

The slaughter of innocent life is a hot button topic fo rmany of us. Personally I am glad she stands behind her convictions.

[I<3Jesus]

Word. I see nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe. I suppose people could learn to do it a little more nicely. I know I have been trying.

[jeffreys]

I never said we shouldn't help those in need. I said we SHOULD help those in need. Let me be very clear on that.

And how do you propose to do that?

Making abortion illegal (which, by the way, I believe should be done) is not going to help those in need - those in the midst of crisis pregnancies.

What, besides protesting outside of Planned Parenthood, should Christians be doing?

[Seeker of truth]

And how do you propose to do that?

Making abortion illegal (which, by the way, I believe should be done) is not going to help those in need - those in the midst of crisis pregnancies.

What, besides protesting outside of Planned Parenthood, should Christians be doing?

"Crisis" pregnancy, as you call it, is no excuse to kill an innocent life. It is never the fault of the baby.

Christians should be standing up for what is right. For what Jesus would stand up for. Would that be the killing of innocent babies or would that be in educating women to what abortion actually is and as to their other options?

[The Parson]

Interestingly enough though, I have a hard time understanding why there is such a delima over this topic. To take an innocent life is murder and as such what the commandment was addressing. And to abort a life simply because of a crime makes it become two wrongs making a right. I don't think so.

Ex:20:13: Thou shalt not kill.
Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

A government, who is the power ordained by the Lord God, should they take the life of a murderer? Well, if the law says a murderer is to be put to death, that power was ordained by God.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

It looks plain and simple to me.

And by the way:::::: All personal arugement and insinuating in this thread ends now. If there is a concern, please address it in the Chat to the Moderators, not here.

[jeffreys]

"Crisis" pregnancy, as you call it, is no excuse to kill an innocent life. It is never the fault of the baby.

Christians should be standing up for what is right. For what Jesus would stand up for. Would that be the killing of innocent babies or would that be in educating women to what abortion actually is and as to their other options?

I agree that a "crisis" pregnancy is no excuse for taking an innocent life - and have repeatedly said so.

But here's the problem... There will ALWAYS be women in crisis pregnancies, regardless of whether abortion is legal or illegal. It's an unfortunate truth.

So what are we, the hands and feet of Jesus, going to do about it? We MUST do more than talk! Protesting outside Planned Parenthood clinics is not saving many (if any) pre-born babies. There has to be more that we can do - and must do.

[jeffreys]

Interestingly enough though, I have a hard time understanding why there is such a delima over this topic. To take an innocent life is murder and as such what the commandment was addressing. And to abort a life simply because of a crime makes it become two wrongs making a right. I don't think so.

You're absolutely right! There should be absolutely no question at all.

Unfortunately, we don't live in that sort of a Utopia. It seems so clear to me that Christians have to get involved in Crisis Pregnancy Centers, in helping women in crisis pregnancies, etc. We can't do everything, but we have to do something.

[The Parson]

You're absolutely right! There should be absolutely no question at all.

Unfortunately, we don't live in that sort of a Utopia. It seems so clear to me that Christians have to get involved in Crisis Pregnancy Centers, in helping women in crisis pregnancies, etc. We can't do everything, but we have to do something.

Even more unfortunate is that the worldly "I don't want to get involved" plague has entered the church. Closest I've ever came to jail was trying to reason with a woman wanting to kill her unborn baby. But unless we do try to reason with the ones consenting, the ones making these horrible laws, and the ones commiting, we are no different from the world with our complacency.

[jeffreys]

Even more unfortunate is that the worldly "I don't want to get involved" plague has entered the church. Closest I've ever came to jail was trying to reason with a woman wanting to kill her unborn baby. But unless we do try to reason with the ones consenting, the ones making these horrible laws, and the ones commiting, we are no different from the world with our complacency.

You're right again.

I guess one of the things that really disturbs me about this whole issue, is that so many people will give lip service to the wrongness of abortion. Unfortunately, that does virtually nothing to change anything, or make anything better, or save the lives of pre-born babies.

I find it personally frustrating too. There's so much that needs to be done, but it's overwhelming, and I'm not even sure where to begin. I've been involved in the establishing and funding of a Christian Pregnancy Center. But that's such a small drop in the bucket, and though we've likely saved the lives of dozens (perhaps hundreds?) of pre-born babies, there are countless millions we've not be able to help.

But we have to try.

[The Parson]

You're right again.

I guess one of the things that really disturbs me about this whole issue, is that so many people will give lip service to the wrongness of abortion. Unfortunately, that does virtually nothing to change anything, or make anything better, or save the lives of pre-born babies.

I find it personally frustrating too. There's so much that needs to be done, but it's overwhelming, and I'm not even sure where to begin. I've been involved in the establishing and funding of a Christian Pregnancy Center. But that's such a small drop in the bucket, and though we've likely saved the lives of dozens (perhaps hundreds?) of pre-born babies, there are countless millions we've not be able to help.

But we have to try.

Don't beat yourself up over that one my friend. If but one were saved it was worth the effort.

[jeffreys]

Don't beat yourself up over that one my friend. If but one were saved it was worth the effort.

This is true. But I can't help but think of what could happen if every Christian family, in the United States, got personally involved in ministering to girls/women involved in crisis pregnancies. Not to condemn them for mistakes already made, but to try to love and help them through the process - to show them Jesus, and to do everything possible to help bring the pre-born baby to term.

The effects would make all the protesting outside Planned Parenthood pale in comparison.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Christians have to be involved in ministry on a grass-roots level. We have to be willing to roll up our sleeves and get involved in the lives of sinful humanity. That's what Jesus did.

[I<3Jesus]

Great points boys! I love Jeffreys because you always find a way to eloquently word what I am feeling, but have a hard time getting across.

[I<3Jesus]

I just noticed that no one addressed what I said earlier:

I am curious to know what people think about a woman who is told that if she does not terminate her pregnancy she will die. Is that committing suicide? Will she go to hell for making the conscious decision to end her own life?

Thoughts?