Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Pondering Roe versus Wade

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by jeffreys View Post
    You've hit something square on the head of the nail right there!

    "Murder" is illegal - therefore, many pro-choice people will argue that abortion is not murder, because abortion is not illegal.

    But that's just word play. It's like if I weighed 415 lbs, but insisted I wasn't "fat" - but just "heavy". Call it what we want, everybody knows what it is. Semantics can't cover over reality!
    That is an excellent way to put it. I guess I could understand people's confusion. Most people want cold, hard facts and if the medical community is not completely backing up the idea that an embryo is actually a life then I could see how they justify it. Most people live by sight alone.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jeffreys View Post
      Ehhh... topic for another thread!
      True, true I am not making another thread though. I am tired of being controversial - LOL!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by I<3Jesus View Post
        OK, so the majority of the people in this thread keep saying that abortion is murder (not that I am disagreeing, I am just trying to get something straight) and murder is against the law, yet abortion is still legal. I am guessing that is because those who are pro choice have a different definition of life than the pro lifers. It basically comes down to whether or not you consider an embryo a child right?
        That is the crux of the issue. Where one falls in the debate is generally decided by this issue. But most pro-choice (or pro-abortion) won't argue when life begins from a view of science either.
        Matt 9:13
        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
        NASU

        Comment


        • Originally posted by I<3Jesus View Post
          That is an excellent way to put it. I guess I could understand people's confusion. Most people want cold, hard facts and if the medical community is not completely backing up the idea that an embryo is actually a life then I could see how they justify it. Most people live by sight alone.
          Most will not deny that the embryo is alive. Most just simply will argue that it is not human life. In other words, the embryo is no more a human life than the liver is. But, there are major philisophical problems with that viewpoint.
          Matt 9:13
          13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
          NASU

          Comment


          • I personally do not understand how anyone can believe that it is NOT a life.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jeffreys View Post
              First of all, I'm interested to know how you propose we go about getting Planned Parenthood Clinics all shut down. I'm not talking theory, but a pragmatic step-by-step process. Also, do the people involved in Planned Parenthood have the same right to try to shut down churches?
              Cutting government funding would be a good start.

              Making abortion illegal would be another great step in closing them down.

              And I would say that Planned Parenthood is more than welcome to try to shut down churches when they start sacrificing babies.

              Where there is a demand, there will always be a service supplied - legal or not.
              Just as there are still rapes, thefts, assaults, etc.


              Abortion is often a symptom, not the disease itself - and we need to start dealing with diseases rather than just throwing band-aids at symptoms.
              Absolutely. This could be a whole thread in itself.

              Too often we sit in our comfortable, middle-class suburban, white Christian homes and talk ideologies, while doing nothing on a grass-roots level.
              As I said before, my action or lack thereof has no bearing on the morality of abortion. It is not wrong to speak out against the evil of abortion, because that is exactly what it is...evil.

              Christians who know a woman in a crisis pregnancy yet will not take her into their home & helping her bring the child to term have absolutely no right to condemn her if she gets an abortion.
              I disagree. First of all, my husband would leave me and my children if I took a pregnant woman into our home. That simply is not an option for me.

              And second, there is nothing wrong with speaking out against abortion. Somebody has to be a voice for those who cannot speak for themselves. And someone needs to make women aware of the horror of abortion. Places like Panned Parenthood often whitewash abortion and hide from their clients the gruesome reality of it.

              In fact, I'll go so far as to say that they've actually abetted in the abortion!
              I disagree.
              My Blog

              Comment


              • Originally posted by I<3Jesus View Post
                I personally do not understand how anyone can believe that it is NOT a life.
                It's called the Ostrich Approach....bury your head in the sand and exchange the term "baby" for "clump of cells".
                My Blog

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jeffreys
                  First of all, I'm interested to know how you propose we go about getting Planned Parenthood Clinics all shut down. I'm not talking theory, but a pragmatic step-by-step process
                  First of all - I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone is saying here. Crisis pregnancies have always been a problem - and since Roe V Wade we have seen a further cheapening of life. Some (in this thread) have pointed to a premature baby and asked if we would kill it (after it was born) - everyone here is horrified at the idea, but I've heard Scientists/Pro-abortionists in my state advocate such a position. Would that we lived in a perfect world and we could overturn Roe v Wade!! I'm just not seeing it happen anytime soon, and we still have the problem of crisis pregnancies.

                  I've been trying to get my legislators to see the dichotomy of Abortion Mills 'counseling' women - when they're profiting from the arrangement. And what about the fact that this is the only operation in the country that isn't regulated at all? Women die in these places because of the lack of regulation! Abortion is so protected that here in my state you won't find m/any doctors doing them - anyone in the office can be trained to use the machine.

                  If this nation would address just those things, it would help many lives. But again ... when we bring these things up - it's an attack on a woman's rights - and all dialog goes out the window - it's no wonder many won't back down from wanting to overturn Roe V. Wade, when we can't even get the opposition to even talk about the dreaded 'C' word (compromise).

                  Actually - both sides have a problem with that word.
                  "He comforts us in all our trouble, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in every trouble, through the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God." 2 Cor 1:4

                  "forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead," Phil 3:13


                  "For our citizenship is in heaven, ..." Phil 3:20

                  Click here if you were wounded spiritually after abortion.
                  Click here if you are pregnant and need help.
                  Click here if you have been raped and are looking for help

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ddmor View Post
                    First of all - I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone is saying here. Crisis pregnancies have always been a problem - and since Roe V Wade we have seen a further cheapening of life. Some (in this thread) have pointed to a premature baby and asked if we would kill it (after it was born) - everyone here is horrified at the idea, but I've heard Scientists/Pro-abortionists in my state advocate such a position. Would that we lived in a perfect world and we could overturn Roe v Wade!! I'm just not seeing it happen anytime soon, and we still have the problem of crisis pregnancies.

                    I've been trying to get my legislators to see the dichotomy of Abortion Mills 'counseling' women - when they're profiting from the arrangement. And what about the fact that this is the only operation in the country that isn't regulated at all? Women die in these places because of the lack of regulation! Abortion is so protected that here in my state you won't find m/any doctors doing them - anyone in the office can be trained to use the machine.

                    If this nation would address just those things, it would help many lives. But again ... when we bring these things up - it's an attack on a woman's rights - and all dialog goes out the window - it's no wonder many won't back down from wanting to overturn Roe V. Wade, when we can't even get the opposition to even talk about the dreaded 'C' word (compromise).

                    Actually - both sides have a problem with that word.
                    I'd be happy to compromise if it meant drastically cutting down on the number of abortions each year. I'd still be disgusted by the few abortions that happened, but elated by the many that didn't.

                    Make no mistake... Ideally, there would be absolutely no need for any compromise whatever. NO babies would be aborted. And that's the way it SHOULD be. But that's not the way it IS.

                    Whatever it takes!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Whispering Grace View Post
                      First of all, my husband would leave me and my children if I took a pregnant woman into our home. That simply is not an option for me.
                      Why would your husband leave you for helping another person. Is he not a Christian?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by I<3Jesus View Post
                        Why would your husband leave you for helping another person. Is he not a Christian?
                        No, he is not.


                        ..........
                        My Blog

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by jeffreys View Post
                          First of all, I'm interested to know how you propose we go about getting Planned Parenthood Clinics all shut down. I'm not talking theory, but a pragmatic step-by-step process. Also, do the people involved in Planned Parenthood have the same right to try to shut down churches?

                          Then, let's say we manage to shut down every Planned Parenthood Clinic in the country (which I do believe would be great!)... Does that mean there won't be abortions performed elsewhere? Hardly. Where there is a demand, there will always be a service supplied - legal or not.

                          The problem here is that, regardless of the legality or illegality of abortion, there will still be women in crisis pregnancies. There will always be women who are being pressured to get an abortion. There will always be women who are desperate and feel they have no other choice. Abortion is often a symptom, not the disease itself - and we need to start dealing with diseases rather than just throwing band-aids at symptoms.

                          This is not an excuse for abortion, but a calling attention to the reality of the situation. Too often we sit in our comfortable, middle-class suburban, white Christian homes and talk ideologies, while doing nothing on a grass-roots level. And though I am NOT referring to you here (please don't be offended by thinking that!), Christians who know a woman in a crisis pregnancy yet will not take her into their home & helping her bring the child to term have absolutely no right to condemn her if she gets an abortion. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that they've actually abetted in the abortion!
                          I'd like to address this statement. All too often abortion is a morals issue. I know women who are honestly not bothered by having an abortion and say they will do it again if necessary. They lack moral fiber. I come to that conclusion as they can kill an innocent life and think nothing of it. Taking them into my home may show them I care but it will not stop them from becomming pregnant again and having an abortion then. And then there is the fact that I can not afford to support another person. And with Marion taking a stranger into my home would not work.

                          Now I am more than willing to do what I can to help them. Pray for them, witness to them, take them to appointments, listen to them, help them find legal assistance for adoption, etc. The bottom line is unless they care nothing I can do will stop an abortion.

                          Some people only God can reach and unless they listen to Him they are not hearing what He is saying to them.
                          The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. Psalm 23

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jeffreys View Post
                            I'd be happy to compromise if it meant drastically cutting down on the number of abortions each year. I'd still be disgusted by the few abortions that happened, but elated by the many that didn't.

                            Make no mistake... Ideally, there would be absolutely no need for any compromise whatever. NO babies would be aborted. And that's the way it SHOULD be. But that's not the way it IS.

                            Whatever it takes!
                            Yep. I will compromise today, to limit abortions. But the ultimate plan doesn't change. Once we outlaw a few, we go to the next step. We work this way until we can outlaw the practice. This is a pragmatic approach.

                            My prayer... one day, in America, we will look back on our past and how we enabled and supported abortions, the same way we look back on our past and how we enabled and supported slavery, with much shame and regret.
                            Matt 9:13
                            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                            NASU

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Seeker of truth View Post
                              I'd like to address this statement. All too often abortion is a morals issue. I know women who are honestly not bothered by having an abortion and say they will do it again if necessary. They lack moral fiber. I come to that conclusion as they can kill an innocent life and think nothing of it. Taking them into my home may show them I care but it will not stop them from becomming pregnant again and having an abortion then. And then there is the fact that I can not afford to support another person. And with Marion taking a stranger into my home would not work.

                              Now I am more than willing to do what I can to help them. Pray for them, witness to them, take them to appointments, listen to them, help them find legal assistance for adoption, etc. The bottom line is unless they care nothing I can do will stop an abortion.

                              Some people only God can reach and unless they listen to Him they are not hearing what He is saying to them.
                              You're right.

                              My point is that Christians MUST do more than just protest abortion. If we're actually going to make a difference, we need to do what Jesus did - which is, get involved personally. I know that we can't fix everybody, but we can help some. And I know that there are immoral women (as well as men, obviously) who care nothing about illicit sex or life, but there are also women who are struggling with the decision, and may very well choose life if somebody helped them in that direction.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                                Yep. I will compromise today, to limit abortions. But the ultimate plan doesn't change. Once we outlaw a few, we go to the next step. We work this way until we can outlaw the practice. This is a pragmatic approach.

                                My prayer... one day, in America, we will look back on our past and how we enabled and supported abortions, the same way we look back on our past and how we enabled and supported slavery, with much shame and regret.
                                Exactly. When we take the "all or nothing" approach, we often end up with nothing. So let's take baby steps, if that's what is necessary!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X