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  • Pondering Roe versus Wade

    I support Ron Paul, he would give states the power to overturn Roe v. Wade.


    I just read this sentiment in someone's signature line and it got me thinking. First of all I can acknowledge that abortion is a hot topic on both sides, but do we really want to start trying to push our beliefs on the secular world? What happens when that backfires and they start pushing back? What happens when they start pushing their beliefs on us? When they start taking away our rights? I am a Christian, but I do not support overturning Roe versus Wade. My spiritual beliefs should not govern what a non believer has the right to do or not to do. Once you start making statements like the one above, once you start pushing for laws based on your beliefs, you open a can of worms that none of us our ready to deal with. Thoughts?


  • #2
    Well... Jesus had no problem pushing His beliefs on the secular world, and I am sure that in many instances, that ended up saving people's souls because they turned to Him rather than the world.

    Being afraid of being pushed back is foolish. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be blunt or rude at all, but I think it is foolish and cowardly. If I am afraid that some people might push back, then I will cease to try and witness to my family and friends, and they could be lost forever.

    This issue is very dear to my heart. Abortion is not right. It is not of God. It ruins people's lives. I have known women who get abortions, and it literally ruins their lives. It is sick that it has became just another form of birth control.

    What is the verse that is in the Bible where Jesus talked about "little ones?" Something about harming them, and Jesus saying that they would wish that they were never even born. That child being taken away for selfish reasons is putting a stop to a creation (formed in the womb) that God has willed.

    He said He knew us before we were even formed.

    I think it would be awesome to get Roe v. Wade overturned, and I don't care who disagrees with me. In all we do, we are supposed to do for the glory of God.

    (my apologies if this post comes off as harsh, that was not my intention at all)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Thirst View Post
      Being afraid of being pushed back is foolish. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be blunt or rude at all, but I think it is foolish and cowardly. If I am afraid that some people might push back, then I will cease to try and witness to my family and friends, and they could be lost forever.
      What I am trying to say is if you start pushing and taking away people's rights based on your beliefs then you better expect that the same will happen to you. What happens when they take away your right to worship or to assemble or to own a Bible or to wear religious symbols? I bet a shiny nickel that your response will be something along the lines of "It is our lot to be persecuted." I am not comfortable trying to push my faith to govern people. There is a difference between bringing people to God and forcing them to adhere to scriptural rule. I think if Christianity gets the credit for overturning Roe versus Wade you are going to push people farther away from God.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by I<3Jesus View Post
        What I am trying to say is if you start pushing and taking away people's rights based on your beliefs then you better expect that the same will happen to you. What happens when they take away your right to worship or to assemble or to own a Bible or to wear religious symbols? I bet a shiny nickel that your response will be something along the lines of "It is our lot to be persecuted." I am not comfortable trying to push my faith to govern people. There is a difference between bringing people to God and forcing them to adhere to scriptural rule. I think if Christianity gets the credit for overturning Roe versus Wade you are going to push people farther away from God.
        God knew their heart from the beginning. What about the person who was killed and never got a chance at life?

        And taking away rights? The secular world already does that, evidenced by the restrictions schools place on their students. My nephew wanted to do a solo to Silent Night, and was told that he absolutely could not do that. Any other song was fine, just not that one. Look around... Many of our rights are already being stripped away from us.

        I recall Peter telling the Pharisee's that he would rather obey God than man. If our rights are taken and those rights being taken end up ending a murderous exercise, then so be it. I will still have Jesus, as will you, and He and He alone makes our joy complete.

        It is doubtful that we will agree. I just don't see this the same way that you do. I understand that forcing our beliefs to govern is a slippery slope that might hurt. But we are given a spirit of power, not timidity. We are not supposed to tolerate sin and be okay with it.

        One of my favorite bumper stickers I've ever seen says, "Smile! Your mother was pro-life!" I think that sums it up well.

        Abortion is wrong and in my eyes, criminal.

        Comment


        • #5
          Once again, I see that when someone tries to stand up for something that is not popular in the world's view, it is insane thinking. The Bible tells us that we will be persecuted for trying to do what is good. I<3Jesus, I am not saying this to you... I am saying this to myself and the world. What we believe and the stand we take for God is hardly ever popular. We are looked at with having a closed mind. I think God calls it something entirely different.

          We are to please people and tolerate unGodliness. We are to look away when we see sin. We are to please people and not stand up for the right of life that God has given.

          I can't do that.

          Again, this is a delicate issue and very controversial. So please don't take offense to anything that I write. There are going to be some heated replies, so please don't take anything personally.

          Comment


          • #6
            One more thing to say... Since Roe v. Wade was implemented, there have been over 50,000,000 abortions. Only two (2!) percent of these cases have been due to 'medical' reasons. It is someone saying, "I am mature enough to have sex, but I can't deal with the consequences, especially a baby."

            I'll find the statistics, but that is what I read. Sad.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by I<3Jesus View Post

              I just read this sentiment in someone's signature line and it got me thinking. First of all I can acknowledge that abortion is a hot topic on both sides, but do we really want to start trying to push our beliefs on the secular world? What happens when that backfires and they start pushing back? What happens when they start pushing their beliefs on us? When they start taking away our rights? I am a Christian, but I do not support overturning Roe versus Wade. My spiritual beliefs should not govern what a non believer has the right to do or not to do. Once you start making statements like the one above, once you start pushing for laws based on your beliefs, you open a can of worms that none of us our ready to deal with. Thoughts?
              Overturning Roe v. Wade would not get rid of abortion completely. All it would do is give the power back to the states to decide whether they want abortion to be illegal or not.

              I think each person has to decide what they really think abortion is. To me life begins at conception. Given that stance I cannot approve of abortion unless there is a risk to the mother's or the child's life.

              As for pushing our beliefs on others, we already do that. There are all sorts of morals regulations in the law. No incest. Can't have two wives. Better put down that marijuana. What if the parents of a newborn had no problem with infanticide? Of course we, and I'll venture to say all of society, have a huge problem with that. Certainly we are pushing our morals onto them by not allowing infanticide, but we're well within our right to do so.
              Woodrow Call: For all you know it invites people to rob us.
              Gus McCrae: Well the first man comes along that can read Latin is welcome to rob us, far as I'm concerned. I'd like a chance t' shoot at a educated man once in my life.


              If I find,
              If I find my own way,
              How much will I find?
              -- Joseph Arthur, In the Sun

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Matthew View Post
                As for pushing our beliefs on others, we already do that. There are all sorts of morals regulations in the law. No incest. Can't have two wives. Better put down that marijuana. What if the parents of a newborn had no problem with infanticide? Of course we, and I'll venture to say all of society, have a huge problem with that. Certainly we are pushing our morals onto them by not allowing infanticide, but we're well within our right to do so.
                I do not see those things as merely Christian morals. I do not know anyone who thinks it is OK to have an incestuous relationship regardless of their religious beliefs (Ewww). Having two wives might be a scriptural thing, but again I think it has more to do with common decency and common sense (who in their right mind would want two wives - LOL). Marijuana is only illegal because they cannot find a way to legally distribute and tax it. If they could, marijuana would be sold right next to cigarettes (which are deadly and should be made illegal). Cigarettes claim more lives in one day than marijuana does in a month (or something, I cannot remember the exact quote). I really think the things you mentioned are not even in the same league as abortion.

                Here is an example, say there is this new religion that starts to take a strong hold in America and that religion lobbies for a new law to be made that every household must have a male heir and are allowed only two chances to have one (all other female children will be put to death). What would you do? I am trying to come up with a comparable scenario and it is pretty hard. I am sure you wouldn't agree to that. You would be livid if the government told you what to do with your body and your children. Would you just submit because these religious folks told you that they are children of the one true God and they are scripturally bound to hold you accountable to their moral code of law?

                Comment


                • #9
                  As a Christian, I would naturally encourage any pregnant friend of mine who was not interested in keeping the baby to consider adoption. I would try to point out facts in addition to delivering my personal opinion, so that she, and a spouse or boyfriend, if involved, could make the right choice. However, I do not feel it is my right to overturn a law allowing a stranger to access abortion. I also don't feel many people are reached by having their rights removed. That just doesn't seem to resonate positively with most. I think a better example is to educate and support in every way while consistently advising those you know or work with of your beliefs and backing opinion up with reasoning.

                  I have sat in the lobby of a women's crisis center that performed abortions while a friend had one, and I drove her home afterward, not because I supported it (which I made clear) but because no one else was willing to do it, and as much as I disliked her choice, my choice was to let her suffer it alone or have someone with her. We cried and prayed on the way home and cried and prayed a lot the weekend after. Incidentally, she's now a pretty active pro-lifer and a Christian. I don't regret that action at all although a couple people have said it was a mistake. Had she gone through the procedure and come out to an empty room, taken a public bus home and sat alone in her apartment, I think suicide might have been her choice; she was that distraught. She also probably would have lumped me with the "Christians" who taunted her with signs, called her a murderer and ignored her needs in every way.

                  Ideally, there would be so many great programs in place that it would make sense to adopt instead of abort, but for many individuals the financial burden alone coupled with the lack of support, an absentee boyfriend or "baby's daddy", fear, family outrage, domestic abuse, etc make pregnancy and adoption or keeping the child a difficult choice or even an impossible one. There are a few programs, not enough. There isn't nearly enough education. There is some shock education being promoted, like showing women pictures of cut up babies post-abortion, but while that may disgust and horrify them, it doesn't answer whatever is driving their desire to abort and be free of the pregnancy. It might turn a woman away from an abortion clinic but within a couple weeks the overwhelming concern will probably drive her to another one. I really think for those of us who are pro-life, our actions need to find alternative solutions for the problem of unwanted pregnancy before we can rule out those we find immoral.


                  Well... Jesus had no problem pushing His beliefs on the secular world, and I am sure that in many instances, that ended up saving people's souls because they turned to Him rather than the world.
                  That is true, but I also think -- that's because he was Jesus! I think the situation is probably quite different for ordinary Christians.

                  Being afraid of being pushed back is foolish. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be blunt or rude at all, but I think it is foolish and cowardly. If I am afraid that some people might push back, then I will cease to try and witness to my family and friends, and they could be lost forever.
                  I agree that people should not keep silent because of fear of reprisals, especially if they feel convicted and know a calling to tackle a particular issue. However, I don't think that witnessing to family and friends compares to attempting to control, through legislation, the rights, choices and freedoms of non-believers.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by I<3Jesus View Post

                    I just read this sentiment in someone's signature line and it got me thinking. First of all I can acknowledge that abortion is a hot topic on both sides, but do we really want to start trying to push our beliefs on the secular world? What happens when that backfires and they start pushing back? What happens when they start pushing their beliefs on us? When they start taking away our rights? I am a Christian, but I do not support overturning Roe versus Wade. My spiritual beliefs should not govern what a non believer has the right to do or not to do. Once you start making statements like the one above, once you start pushing for laws based on your beliefs, you open a can of worms that none of us our ready to deal with. Thoughts?
                    Abortion is not merely a "religious" issue. It is very much a human rights issue.

                    Slaughtering an unborn child is not a right. Period.
                    My Blog

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by I<3Jesus View Post
                      What I am trying to say is if you start pushing and taking away people's rights based on your beliefs then you better expect that the same will happen to you.
                      Again...murder is not a right. The Declaration of Independence lists LIFE as an unalienable right, not murder.

                      What happens when they take away your right to worship or to assemble or to own a Bible or to wear religious symbols?
                      Should I not defend the right to life of the most innocent in our society based on perceived threats to my own freedoms? Is that not a completely self-serving notion?

                      I am not comfortable trying to push my faith to govern people.
                      I am not comfortable with the millions of babies who are killed for the sake of convenience each year.

                      I think if Christianity gets the credit for overturning Roe versus Wade you are going to push people farther away from God.
                      Are you saying it will bring people TO God by turning a blind eye to the merciless killing of millions of babies every year? You are going to have to explain your logic on that one.
                      My Blog

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                      • #12
                        I don't see this as an issue that we should even hesitate to fuss about. It is about justice for the helpless and we need to make it an issue regardless of the fussing about us legislating morality or all the popular buzz words tossed about today. If it backfires then it backfires... but if we don't fight for the helpless... we just might well find ourselves on the side with the goats. Simple as that really. Defending the helpless is something that God requires and we should take it as serious as anything else. Regardless of whether or not folks want to give it names trying to label it as something sinister.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                          I don't see this as an issue that we should even hesitate to fuss about. It is about justice for the helpless and we need to make it an issue regardless of the fussing about us legislating morality or all the popular buzz words tossed about today. If it backfires then it backfires... but if we don't fight for the helpless... we just might well find ourselves on the side with the goats. Simple as that really. Defending the helpless is something that God requires and we should take it as serious as anything else. Regardless of whether or not folks want to give it names trying to label it as something sinister.
                          Wonderful post and I totally agree!
                          The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. Psalm 23

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by foxglove View Post
                            Ideally, there would be so many great programs in place that it would make sense to adopt instead of abort, but for many individuals the financial burden alone coupled with the lack of support, an absentee boyfriend or "baby's daddy", fear, family outrage, domestic abuse, etc make pregnancy and adoption or keeping the child a difficult choice or even an impossible one. There are a few programs, not enough. There isn't nearly enough education. There is some shock education being promoted, like showing women pictures of cut up babies post-abortion, but while that may disgust and horrify them, it doesn't answer whatever is driving their desire to abort and be free of the pregnancy. It might turn a woman away from an abortion clinic but within a couple weeks the overwhelming concern will probably drive her to another one. I really think for those of us who are pro-life, our actions need to find alternative solutions for the problem of unwanted pregnancy before we can rule out those we find immoral.
                            I completely agree. I spent several months volunteering at a free clinic. Those women come from all types of backgrounds of abuse and poverty. I do not think it is a black and white issue like so many others make it. We had a nine year old girl come in who was impregnated by her father. Should she be forced to carry the child to term because my religious beliefs, not hers, say she should?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Whispering Grace View Post
                              Are you saying it will bring people TO God by turning a blind eye to the merciless killing of millions of babies every year? You are going to have to explain your logic on that one.
                              No, I am saying that forcing people to comply with your religious ideals will not bring them to God.

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