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  • Are we responsible?

    What would cause God to make humans responsible for his getting what He wants?

  • #2
    Because God made man a certain way and he didnt live up to it.
    He formed and molded us, yet we do nasty things before him.
    It looks very much as though we were responsible, because Jesus had to go through a very real terror, in order to achieve a way back to God for us.We are/were guilty.
    I can see why hell was created for the devil and his angels and all who turn their backs on the true image of God.

    Who better to prepare a place for us in God than Jesus Christ of Nazereth.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

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    • #3
      Originally posted by mikebr View Post
      What would cause God to make humans responsible for his getting what He wants?
      I think I know where you're going with this, but could you elaborate?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
        I think I know where you're going with this, but could you elaborate?
        We are told that we are to fulfill the will of God. It seems to me that God's will cannot be independent of who He is. It's like me having kids just to do what I want done because I can't do it myself.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mikebr View Post
          We are told that we are to fulfill the will of God. It seems to me that God's will cannot be independent of who He is. It's like me having kids just to do what I want done because I can't do it myself.
          Balance in life is very important. Parents have children to love them. But that doesn't mean they ignore their behavior. We are not saved to serve, but serving is part of being saved. We are saved to love and adore God. But that doesn't mean God won't hold us responsible for our actions.
          Matt 9:13
          13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
          NASU

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          • #6
            Why does this thread seem so much like a bait of some kind?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by mikebr View Post
              What would cause God to make humans responsible for his getting what He wants?
              I think God is just trying to share the fullness of his love with others - not stating that he himself is dependant on anything. This I believe represents the perfection of his love, he is not selfish - but desires to share his love with others. He could have just sat and created a bunch of automatons to do whatever he commanded and forcefully make them do whatever he said - but I think out of the perfection of his love - he chose not to do so seeing as how this would not be the most loving course of action to partake in.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                I think God is just trying to share the fullness of his love with others - not stating that he himself is dependant on anything. This I believe represents the perfection of his love, he is not selfish
                So if God's glory isn't the centre of all He is and does, what is then?

                - but desires to share his love with others. He could have just sat and created a bunch of automatons to do whatever he commanded and forcefully make them do whatever he said - but I think out of the perfection of his love - he chose not to do so seeing as how this would not be the most loving course of action to partake in.
                Scripture tells us that God "works all things according to the counsel of His will" Eph 1:11b NKJV - are you saying that God chose not to create the world and all that is in it for His own good pleasure?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Duane Morse View Post
                  Why does this thread seem so much like a bait of some kind?

                  Maybe its of what you know of me, Duane. But no bait here. I thought it was a pretty straight forward question.

                  If God is all in all can we add to what He is by fulfilling His will?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                    If God is all in all can we add to what He is by fulfilling His will?
                    Can't add to him, but we sure can please him. And pleasing one whom we love is very fullfilling. In other words, pleasing him is fulfilling to us.
                    Matt 9:13
                    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                    NASU

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                      Can't add to him, but we sure can please him. And pleasing one whom we love is very fullfilling. In other words, pleasing him is fulfilling to us.
                      So are we responsible for getting what we want? To tell the truth BrotherMark that seems sort of selfish to me. I'll please you to get what I want. In other words I'll attempt to please God so that I can be (feel)fulfilled.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                        So are we responsible for getting what we want? To tell the truth BrotherMark that seems sort of selfish to me. I'll please you to get what I want. In other words I'll attempt to please God so that I can be (feel)fulfilled.
                        Well the word does say that without faith it is impossible to please him and that we must believe he is and that he is a rewarder of those that diligently seek him. Faith has a reward. Part of the reason for believing is the reward. Is that selfish? Naw. Jesus said "for the joy laid before him, he endured the cross". We know Jesus wasn't selfish. Yet, it was for the joy that he did it. When you love somebody, you don't mind doing it for them. Or when you have great awe and respect you don't mind doing it for them. Both are powerful motivators and God uses both to help us be all we can be.
                        Matt 9:13
                        13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                        NASU

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
                          So if God's glory isn't the centre of all He is and does, what is then?

                          Scripture tells us that God "works all things according to the counsel of His will" Eph 1:11b NKJV - are you saying that God chose not to create the world and all that is in it for His own good pleasure?

                          God is the center of all there is. But the perfection of his love is demonstrated through a desire to share with others this good pleasure he created for himself. Does he need anyone to share this love with? Of course not. But being that his love is perfect, sharing is what he does:

                          1 Corinthians 13:4-5
                          Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,

                          God is not selfish. His desire to share with others, along with many of his other attributes(patience, righteousnous, etc) are what make his love perfect.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                            Well the word does say that without faith it is impossible to please him and that we must believe he is and that he is a rewarder of those that diligently seek him. Faith has a reward. Part of the reason for believing is the reward. Is that selfish? Naw. Jesus said "for the joy laid before him, he endured the cross". We know Jesus wasn't selfish. Yet, it was for the joy that he did it. When you love somebody, you don't mind doing it for them. Or when you have great awe and respect you don't mind doing it for them. Both are powerful motivators and God uses both to help us be all we can be.
                            Good points. Also wanted to add that perhaps the reward to some is just being with him - and sharing in a loving relationship with him. If his love is perfect, then I think that should be enough for me and everyone else to desire a relationship him.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                              If God is all in all can we add to what He is by fulfilling His will?
                              It depends on what you mean by "add to what He is", I would think.

                              If you mean, can we help add a dimension to His fundamentally singular and non-corporeal nature - then I would answer 'yes' to your question, because it is through Man that God can fully realize a physical nature and actually partake in a loving relationship.

                              Giving us the free will to love Him or not replaces a single one-way street with a multi-lane two-way street, complete with on and off ramps and side streets and rest areas.

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