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  • The Seventh Day is the Sabbath

    Ok, I know this one is probably going to get into a heated debate, but here is the question. Should we still keep the Sabbath Holy, did it ever loose it's significance? Or is it still a factor today. We say that it would be wrong to steal, and then we say that it would be wrong to commit adultery and still others say it is wrong to make graven images, and all the ten commandments apply but when we come to the 4th commandment, then there is a problem. Question, why is there a problem with the 4th commandment?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ebenezer View Post
    Ok, I know this one is probably going to get into a heated debate, but here is the question. Should we still keep the Sabbath Holy, did it ever loose it's significance? Or is it still a factor today. We say that it would be wrong to steal, and then we say that it would be wrong to commit adultery and still others say it is wrong to make graven images, and all the ten commandments apply but when we come to the 4th commandment, then there is a problem. Question, why is there a problem with the 4th commandment?
    People want to work 7 days a week to make a lot of money until it kills them because their bodies did not get rest

    Okay, probably true to some degree. The body needs rest and it seems after 6 days of work, one day of rest is proper. But Christ expounded upon the 10 commandments but also noted there may be situations where you may have to do something (an emergency).

    The Sabbath was made for man (not just the Jewish), and it is not 'the Yehudi/Jewish Sabbath, but the "Sabbath."

    Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. You shall not do any work in it, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your livestock, nor your stranger who is within your gates; (the text actually refers to outsiders as well here).

    While some seem to be taken by the ghost of Marcion (whom expunged the OT, and mutilated the Gospels), you are right, for some reason those other commandments seem to glare forth - but there a couple of those laws that the policeman will have ya if ya caught breaking them, correct? Still not supposed to steal, murder, have no other gods or graven images, commit adultery, etc.

    Some rest Saturdays and go to worship services and have picnics on Sundays, and a midday in the middle of the week.

    I detect we are gonna get some flak for this anti-marcion stand
    "A text without context is a pretext."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ebenezer View Post
      Ok, I know this one is probably going to get into a heated debate, but here is the question. Should we still keep the Sabbath Holy, did it ever loose it's significance? Or is it still a factor today. We say that it would be wrong to steal, and then we say that it would be wrong to commit adultery and still others say it is wrong to make graven images, and all the ten commandments apply but when we come to the 4th commandment, then there is a problem. Question, why is there a problem with the 4th commandment?
      And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. (Hebrews 7: 8-12)
      The Sabbath was given to the Hebrew nation and was part of the “old covenant law”. Christians are not under the old covenant law and never were – when Christ died on the cross there was a change in the priesthood and a “change also of the law”. Christians are under the “new covenant” which nowhere commands us to “keep the Sabbath” or any other day "holy".

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      • #4
        Originally posted by losthorizon View Post
        And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. (Hebrews 7: 8-12)
        The Sabbath was given to the Hebrew nation and was part of the “old covenant law”. Christians are not under the old covenant law and never were – when Christ died on the cross there was a change in the priesthood and a “change also of the law”. Christians are under the “new covenant” which nowhere commands us to “keep the Sabbath” or any other day "holy".
        The Sabbath was not a part of the "old covenant", instead the Sabbath was instituted in the garden of Eden before there was ever a law made. In Gen 2:2 the Bible says "And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.
        Gen 2:3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation. The Bible also says that we will celebrate the Sabbath in heaven from one new moon to another.Isa 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.
        Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD. The sabbath was kept by Jesus, and He is our example. Where in the Bible does Jesus say that he abolished the Sabbath? It cannot be found, and we even have evidence in Acts of Paul keeping the Sabbath. The verse found in Revelation 1:10 about John being in the Spirit on the Lord's day is a verse that some use to say that He was in the spirit on Sunday, but this is not true, where in the Bible do we read about the Lord's Day being Sunday? In Matthew 12:8 we read "For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath." In Mark 2:28 we read "So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath." And in Luke 6:5 we read "And he said to them, "The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath." So according to the Gospels, what day is the Lord's day? The Sabbath. Also we can look at Matthew and there we find Jesus making a startling statement which applied after His death in Matthew 24:20 we read Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. Why would Jesus tell people to pray that their flight would not be on the Sabbath, because He knew that they would be keeping the Sabbath after His death.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ebenezer View Post
          The Sabbath was not a part of the "old covenant", instead the Sabbath was instituted in the garden of Eden before there was ever a law made. In Gen 2:2 the Bible says "And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done.
          The Sabbath was most assuredly part and parcel to the covenant made between God and the Hebrew nation (the OT) – there are no references in the book of Genesis that even hint that any of the patriarchs observed the Sabbath as a “holy day”. Why – because the Sabbath was made known only to the Jews – through Moses – at Sinai. It was not made known to man before that time as a “holy day” to be kept by God’s people.
          You came down also upon mount Sinai, and spoke with them from heaven, and gave them right ordinances and true laws, good statutes and commandments, and made known unto them your holy sabbath, and commanded them commandments, and statutes, and a law, by Moses your servant” (Nehemiah 9:14)
          Again, the Sabbath was made known to the nation of Israel at Sinai – it was not a holy day instituted by God to any other people before that time and when the OT law was “nailed to the cross” the day the Lord of Glory “gave up the ghost” at Golgotha it became "obsolete" along with the complete Mosaical system – including the Levitical priesthood, animal sacrifices, temple worship, et, etc.

          There is no command for Christians in the NT to keep the Sabbath holy – it was never given to “all mankind” and it was given only to the nation of Israel as a “sign” between Jehovah and Israel. Those who would attempt to bind “Sabbath keeping” on Christians today commit an egregious error wishing to go back under the "shadow" of the "old law".
          Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival (yearly feast days), a new moon celebration (monthly feast days) or a Sabbath day (weekly). These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. (Col 2)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ebenezer View Post
            Question, why is there a problem with the 4th commandment?
            The reason it became controversial, is because Paul taught that it was not mandatory to observe the Sabbath. (See Romans 14, Galatians 4, Colossians 2).
            Rom 14:5-6
            One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.
            Love In Christ,
            Tanya






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            • #7
              Originally posted by fightingfalcon
              Not true, the Sabbath is part of the ten commandment law, now if you insist that it was done away with then the whole ten commandment law has to be done away with...
              You misunderstand what “law” Christians are under today and in your confusion you choose to go back under the old law – an endeavor that we are repeatedly warned not to do. At the cross, Jesus fulfilled that “old law” (Matt. 5:17) He took it out of the way and nailed to the cross – rendering it forever obsolete and non-binding.

              And why was the OT law abolished? It was abolished so that Jesus could establish a “new law”. And what is the new law? It is the "perfect law of liberty" (James 1:25) that Christians are under today. And nowhere in the New Testament are Christians ever (in any way, shape or form) commanded to "keep the Sabbath" under the “Law of Christ”. How do you explain this fact? The truth is you can’t and this fact alone knocks the legs out from under your argument. Those teachers today who bind keeping the Sabbath do so without the authority of God – they are adding to God’s word and binding on men what is not bound by God.

              The command to keep the Sabbath was given only to the physical nation of Israel at Sinai – it was never given to any Gentile nation - it was never given to Christians and it became obsolete at the cross.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by losthorizon View Post
                You misunderstand what “law” Christians are under today and in your confusion you choose to go back under the old law – an endeavor that we are repeatedly warned not to do. At the cross, Jesus fulfilled that “old law” (Matt. 5:17) He took it out of the way and nailed to the cross – rendering it forever obsolete and non-binding.

                And why was the OT law abolished? It was abolished so that Jesus could establish a “new law”. And what is the new law? It is the "perfect law of liberty" (James 1:25) that Christians are under today. And nowhere in the New Testament are Christians ever (in any way, shape or form) commanded to "keep the Sabbath" under the “Law of Christ”. How do you explain this fact? The truth is you can’t and this fact alone knocks the legs out from under your argument. Those teachers today who bind keeping the Sabbath do so without the authority of God – they are adding to God’s word and binding on men what is not bound by God.

                The command to keep the Sabbath was given only to the physical nation of Israel at Sinai – it was never given to any Gentile nation - it was never given to Christians and it became obsolete at the cross.
                You didn't read my article... because had you you would have atleast known which law was abolished at the cross...

                There is nothing in the NT that says NOT TO keep the sabbath... there are other commandments which in the NT were not COMMANDED to keep cause this was a no-brainer... they knew they had to keep the ten commandment law.

                Also to say the ten commandment law or the sabbath was given to the jews is pure ignorance of the scriptures... the bible says the law is eternal...

                "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."
                Paul is clear the LAW IS GOOD! He is obviously speaking here of the ten commandment law as he speaks of covetousness. He says that the law is how we know sin... if it is a sin to covet which is a command it is also a sin to break the 4th commandment.

                John 15;10
                "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
                How many of the commandments did Christ keep? If we should keep the commandments "even as Christ" did then shouldn't we also keep them all?

                "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

                The NT doesn't say "keep the sabbath" but it does say MANY MANY times to keep the ten commandment law... the sabbath is STILL part of that law, nothing has changed, if you want to claim it has been done away with at the cross please show me a verse to back it up... also please read my article... it provides many verses to back this up.

                In the end times the test are those who keep the commandments... ALL OF THEM!

                One thing no anti-sabatarian can answer is this... if the sabbath was done away with at the cross then why do you goto church on sunday? Some claim "cause the day doesn't matter, we worship God" - that doesn't make sense... if the sabbath was done away with, it was no longer needed, it was no longer binding then why would we keep another day? The fact is it was never abolished, the ten commandment law had NOTHING TO DO with the "ordinances" abolished at the cross..

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by losthorizon View Post
                  The Sabbath was most assuredly part and parcel to the covenant made between God and the Hebrew nation (the OT) – there are no references in the book of Genesis that even hint that any of the patriarchs observed the Sabbath as a “holy day”. Why – because the Sabbath was made known only to the Jews – through Moses – at Sinai. It was not made known to man before that time as a “holy day” to be kept by God’s people.
                  You came down also upon mount Sinai, and spoke with them from heaven, and gave them right ordinances and true laws, good statutes and commandments, and made known unto them your holy sabbath, and commanded them commandments, and statutes, and a law, by Moses your servant” (Nehemiah 9:14)
                  Again, the Sabbath was made known to the nation of Israel at Sinai – it was not a holy day instituted by God to any other people before that time and when the OT law was “nailed to the cross” the day the Lord of Glory “gave up the ghost” at Golgotha it became "obsolete" along with the complete Mosaical system – including the Levitical priesthood, animal sacrifices, temple worship, et, etc.

                  There is no command for Christians in the NT to keep the Sabbath holy – it was never given to “all mankind” and it was given only to the nation of Israel as a “sign” between Jehovah and Israel. Those who would attempt to bind “Sabbath keeping” on Christians today commit an egregious error wishing to go back under the "shadow" of the "old law".
                  Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival (yearly feast days), a new moon celebration (monthly feast days) or a Sabbath day (weekly). These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. (Col 2)
                  Also we are not told anywhere in Genesis, thou shalt not kill, yet when Cain killed able it was labeled as a sin. What about when Abraham lied to Pharaoh? Was that not a sin either. What about Judah and Tamar, when Tamar committed adultery they were still going to kill her. (Genesis 38). Let's look at the reason we are to keep the Sabbath, in Exodus 20:11 we read "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." Why did He make the Sabbath day Holy, because in six days He made the heaven and the earth, which is a reference back to Genesis two. And why is it that He (God) tells us to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy? Also we can look in Mal 3:6 "For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed." God does not change, why would He change something that He instituted from before creation? Also, the text that you quoted in Col 2 needs to be put into context. Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
                  Col 2:14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
                  Col 2:15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
                  Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
                  Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

                  Notice here that Jesus did not cancel the commandments but the record of debt, debt to what? The debt of breaking the law, what are the legal demands talked about? Death The law demands that someone has to die for our sins, and Jesus did that, but that does not mean that we can go on sinning. What does sin look like? How do we know what sin is? The ten commandments show us exactly what sin is. But just because we are forgiven does not mean that we can go on breaking the law. We need to turn away from sin. The Bible also calls feast days a sabbath day as well. In Lev 16:30 we read "For on this day shall atonement be made for you to cleanse you. You shall be clean before the LORD from all your sins.
                  Lev 16:31 It is a Sabbath of solemn rest to you, and you shall afflict yourselves; it is a statute forever." Notice that the Bible calls the Day of Atonement a Sabbath, and it is a feast day. When Paul talks about letting no one judge you in regard to a Sabbath day he is talking about feast days. He is not talking about The Sabbath, he is talking about a sabbath day.
                  So in conclusion, the Sabbath was not done away with, it is still in effect to this day and will be throughout eternity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I try to keep sabbath on the 7th day.

                    My wife and I rest on the sabbath between Friday and saturday sundown.
                    We are not Jewish but as we as gentiles believe we are grafted in with the Jewish people.And in Genesis it does say that our Father rested on the seventh day.
                    I believe sunday worship was bought in by the Roman Emperor Constantine.

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                    • #11
                      When one looks at the Ten Commandments from the Christian era, we see that Jesus doesn't nullify them but spiritualizes them. You have heard thou shall not murder but I say thou shall not hate. Do not commit adultery - do not look upon a woman in such manner etc. So what about the Sabbath?

                      I put forward we are in the Sabbath rest everyday as Christians Heb.4:10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

                      God rested from His works in Gen.2:2 But Jesus says His Father is busy still today, Jn.5:17; What works did God rest from - physical works - creation. What work is God busy doing - spiritual, working with men, the physical is done and the spiritual presses on.

                      When do we enter His rest? Not when we die - but when we become a Christian and then we rest from our works! What are our works? Physical, whatever your job is, you don't worry about it any longer, you give it over to God. God blesses your job, your insights, if the physical work is going to be a success it will be because of God. You think you work so hard to make it a success, think again.

                      Does God want us focusing on doing physical works? Don't worry about what your going to eat or wear - Mt.6: God takes care of the birds, He takes care of us, You seek first His kingdom by doing His will. Leave the cares of this life alone - REST! and now do the works He called us to do.

                      Paul calls us to imitate Him as he imitates Christ, but how many Christians are more focused on surviving the rat race and are exhausted at the end of the day, looking forward to dying to get into His rest, missing His rest all along. It is not a physical rest, 24 hour kick back, it is spiritual, doing His will. Jn.4:34 My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me.

                      We work for no man - we work for Christ - Col.4:23-25 work for the Lord rather than for men. Your biggest contribution to your place of employment is your spiritual contribution, why do people waste their night time planning what they can do to make the job better, rather than praying to God for wisdom to make the work environment better.

                      I can't share Christ at work, you don't share Him at work you emulate Him.
                      What would Jesus do, fret over the physical health of the company or the spiritual health of your fellow employees. God says leave the physical alone, I'll take care of that for you, lay aside your works, take up my work, emulate My son, care for the spiritual, God's word needs to be our work. To do God's work is to be in His rest, for it is not a labor but a joy, Mt.11:28-30 Come to Me you who are weary and I will give you rest... Not when we die but everyday of our lives as the Sabbath rest for His people. Heb.4:9

                      The whole world wears itself out banging its head against the wall, we leave that in God's hands, He is in control, we get on with His work, reaching out and shining the light. If He comes today, your worries are for not - your worry Jesus says is a sin. I am not saying be a sluggard at work, do your best yes, but the focus is to be on the spiritual, how do I enrich these people's lives.

                      We have no answers, we have no solutions to the troubles people are in but Jesus does. Our mission is to introduce them to the Savior, He will care for their troubles, He will give them solutions, not us, He does the work and we get to watch people's lives change for the better and gain a brother or sister in Christ, what work is that? It's not, man are we blessed or what.
                      With every spiritual blessing - Eph.1:3

                      Sabbath rest, physical rest 24 hrs,? No. everyday of our lives, spiritually we are in the Sabbath rest of God.

                      RJ Mac

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jude1:21 View Post
                        My wife and I rest on the sabbath between Friday and saturday sundown.
                        Yea - it is also noteworthy that "the first of the week" actually begins sundown on Saturday.

                        We are not Jewish but as we as gentiles believe we are grafted in with the Jewish people.And in Genesis it does say that our Father rested on the seventh day.
                        Rest on the Sabbath, have church that day or any other, worship him all days

                        Common sense dictates that at the time of Adam and Eve, the vocabulary was quite limited - the Hebrew word for "Sabbath" did not yet exist (though, apparently the way it is written in the Torah, it was known by the time of Exodus). The institution of the day of rest is much older and is founded in nature and like marriage, was instituted in paradise (Gen 2:2,3).

                        What happened during some ages was that it was twisted into a bondage as opposed to a holy day. Christ corrected those errors and put the time of rest back into its proper form, not to mention, expound the commandments.

                        I believe sunday worship was bought in by the Roman Emperor Constantine.
                        Yep - not to mention some "home-made" doctrines. He instituted the buildings of "church buildings" as well, which is not known to scripture, and apparently, had no mind or intents of instituting. The Greek Ekkelsia (which does not refer to a building, and is translated as "church", "assembly", and "congregation") in the NT referred to the body of believers as a whole, those meeting in a place, etc. Before Constantine, they met in homes (cp. Ro 16:5; 1Co 16:19; Col 4:15; Phm 1:2, among some of the verses) - at times of severe persecutions, they would meet in catacombs.

                        It is suspected that they may as well met at places in the streets, or there abouts.

                        Later on, before Constantine, some gave their houses up for the sole purpose of congregating together. House Churches still continue after all these decades, and in fact, (e.g. China), that is all the choice that some people have.
                        "A text without context is a pretext."

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                        • #13
                          Which sabbath saturday or sunday?

                          Dear Fightingfalcon,
                          This was an excellent website which covered all the points of interest in this thread,thanks for posting it

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fightingfalcon View Post
                            You didn't read my article... because had you you would have atleast known which law was abolished at the cross...
                            I don’t need to read your article based on the presuppositions of men – I only need to read my Bible and in its pages I see exactly which “law” was nailed to the cross. The law abolished was the OT law that was fulfilled by Jesus Christ (Matt. 5:17). The Mosaical system in its entirety was rendered obsolete by His death and that obsolete system included the command to keep the Sabbath. This is not a difficult concept.

                            There is not one command in the NT for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy but there are warnings to beware of those teachers who try to “beguile you with enticing words” regarding what day to keep holy (Colossian 2). I will therefore take heed of what God’s word says and reject all false teachers who “through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men” try to bind on Christians today that which was done away at the cross...“Let no man therefore judge you… in respect of an holyday… or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”
                            "I am no preacher of the old legal Sabbath. I am a preacher of the Gospel. The Sabbath of the Jew is to him a task; the Lord's Day of the Christian, the first day of the week, is to him a joy, a day of rest, of peace, and of thanksgiving. And if you Christian men can earnestly drive away all distractions, so that you can really rest today, it will be good for your bodies, good for your souls, good mentally, good spiritually, good temporally, and good eternally." ~ Charles Spurgeon
                            If I exercise my freedom in Christ Jesus and do not keep the "old legal Sabbath" do I stand damned before my God, i.e., is “Sabbath-keeping” a salvific requirement in your peculiar religion?

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                            • #15
                              Actually, I *really* do think that you ought to read the article (especially since the argument that you've just presented is the very one that he addresses). Nothing's wrong with reading others' material to supplement your Bible reading - you're expecting that people are reading what you write, aren't you...? The article is pretty good, but I found the blogger's link to "Sabbath Truth" a better resource. I'd never given much thought to this until I read up on these people's material, and their material is right. We ought to keep the Sabbath / Saturday holy! I never understood the reason for "Saturday" as opposed to Sunday until I read their stuff - so, I highly recommend them.

                              - Lk.11
                              analyze. synthesize. repeat.

                              *It is the next chapter of my life, whether I'm ready or not. My time here in these forums has come to its close. I bless you as I go!*

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