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Exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees

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  • coldfire136
    replied
    Brakelite,
    I have no idea what you are talking about. The primary source that you quoted has nothing to do with the time of Jesus (it was written hundreds of years before), and the quote has nothing to do with a wedding. It is a vision of Zechariah. Let me ask again, and this time, please answer the question:

    Where do you get your evidence that a groom's father would provide wedding clothes for a wedding?

    Leave a comment:


  • brakelite
    replied
    Originally posted by coldfire136 View Post
    Hi brakelite,

    1. Where did you get the information for interpreting the passage in this way? What primary or secondary sources support such an interpretation?
    1 ¶ And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
    2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
    3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
    4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
    5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.

    Leave a comment:


  • Studyin'2Show
    replied
    Originally posted by coldfire136 View Post
    Hi brakelite,

    1. Where did you get the information for interpreting the passage in this way? What primary or secondary sources support such an interpretation?
    How do you interpret the passage?

    Leave a comment:


  • coldfire136
    replied
    Hi brakelite,

    1. Where did you get the information for interpreting the passage in this way? What primary or secondary sources support such an interpretation?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Very nice posts Brakelite and Study, there are huge differences between eastern and western wedding/ marriage ceremonies and practices. Nice to see posts that reinforce it is not all about the bride but rather all about the Groom.

    Leave a comment:


  • walked
    replied
    Originally posted by brakelite View Post
    2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
    3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
    4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
    5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
    6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
    7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
    8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
    9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
    10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
    11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
    12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
    13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

    In the custom of the day, the groom's father would provide the appropriate garments for the wedding. We see here in the parable that there is an investigation by the king to ensure that all are appropriately attired. One guest had chosen not to wear the garment provided him, trusting in his own dress, in effect saying, "I'm okay as I am thanks."
    We are invited to the wedding of all weddings. The Son of the King of the universe is coming soon to collect His bride. The problem is the bride doesn't want to get ready. She has a problem with the wedding garment. She thinks sometimes that her own is sufficient. Self righteousness. She thinks sometimes that the King's choice of garment doesn't suit, or it's the wrong size, or it's too hard to wear. Doubt.
    But in the final analysis, only the garment of Christs righteousness will give us entry to the wedding feast.
    We are told that judgement begins in the house of God. I beleive that is taking place now. The King is now investigating the attire of the invited guests to see if they are appropriatley clothed before His Son appears in the clouds of heaven to take His bride home. Christ's righteousness is offered us as a gift. Let us allow God to put it on us now, so that when Christ comes for His bride, we are ready.
    Amen! ....Nice post brakelite.

    God bless you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Studyin'2Show
    replied
    It's my understanding that another custom was for the groom to go back to his father's house and to begin preparing an addition for he and his bride to share (Yeshua said I go to prepare a place for you). Then once the place was ready, the groom would go to get the bride, who would have been getting her things ready so she would be prepared when her groom arrived; unannounced and at an unspecified time.

    Leave a comment:


  • brakelite
    replied
    2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
    3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
    4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
    5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
    6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
    7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
    8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
    9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
    10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
    11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
    12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
    13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
    14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

    In the custom of the day, the groom's father would provide the appropriate garments for the wedding. We see here in the parable that there is an investigation by the king to ensure that all are appropriately attired. One guest had chosen not to wear the garment provided him, trusting in his own dress, in effect saying, "I'm okay as I am thanks."
    We are invited to the wedding of all weddings. The Son of the King of the universe is coming soon to collect His bride. The problem is the bride doesn't want to get ready. She has a problem with the wedding garment. She thinks sometimes that her own is sufficient. Self righteousness. She thinks sometimes that the King's choice of garment doesn't suit, or it's the wrong size, or it's too hard to wear. Doubt.
    But in the final analysis, only the garment of Christs righteousness will give us entry to the wedding feast.
    We are told that judgement begins in the house of God. I beleive that is taking place now. The King is now investigating the attire of the invited guests to see if they are appropriatley clothed before His Son appears in the clouds of heaven to take His bride home. Christ's righteousness is offered us as a gift. Let us allow God to put it on us now, so that when Christ comes for His bride, we are ready.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mograce2U
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark F View Post
    Studyin'2show and coldfire136,

    I see your point and will give it somethought, thanks for your insight.

    coldfire136,

    You mention the theology not being similar, I think not. I see a significance to the nation of Israel that you don't and I base that on your statement:
    ...

    IMO this will cause us to see many things differently, sorry.

    BTW, I didn't check the Greek, don't speak Greek so I'll have to do some homework on that use of "grace".

    I read here lately someone made a rather significant statement to this interpretation and I cannot recall where I read it, but it was something along these lines:

    Mark 13:32;
    “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

    How could Jesus name a specific generation in time if He said not even the Son knows? (which is off track from the OP)
    It would seem to be the exact day and hour was not known, only that it would come in their generation - hence the need to watch for the signs He was giving them.

    Prophecy is usually given with specific markers rather than with specific dates. Even in Daniel, the cross is given as the marker for the 70th week to show us its fulfillment. Which some succumb to counting days and years, missing what that marker was intended to show them in the time frame that it was given. With the correct identity of the marker, the dates can then be applied with more accuracy.

    Which is just my observation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark F
    replied
    Studyin'2show and coldfire136,

    I see your point and will give it somethought, thanks for your insight.


    coldfire136,

    You mention the theology not being similar, I think not. I see a significance to the nation of Israel that you don't and I base that on your statement:

    The theology of the gospels suggests that Jesus would come back within their generation, but by the writing of 1 Peter (will all his mention of heaven and the imperishable) it is clear that they are looking forward more to a future life with Christ than with a present return to Christ in the here and now.
    IMO this will cause us to see many things differently, sorry.

    BTW, I didn't check the Greek, don't speak Greek so I'll have to do some homework on that use of "grace".


    I read here lately someone made a rather significant statement to this interpretation and I cannot recall where I read it, but it was something along these lines:

    Mark 13:32;
    “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."


    How could Jesus name a specific generation in time if He said not even the Son knows? (which is off track from the OP)

    Leave a comment:


  • Mograce2U
    replied
    Originally posted by Studyin'2Show View Post
    Hello Mark,

    I believe this verse in Peter is looking forward to judgment, where we are to receive grace because we will stand before the throne clothed in His righteousness. However, there is grace that has already been afforded us when He gave us that righteousness in which we will stand in that day. That's my understanding of the timing.

    God Bless!
    I think a particular judgment that was soon to come was in Peter's view. A judgment that would reveal Jesus ruling in power and also reveal who was approved by God and who was not.

    Leave a comment:


  • coldfire136
    replied
    Thanks for clarifying, Mark F.

    Here's the main problem: 1 Peter and the Gospels have very little in common theologically, so it is hard to compare the two. The theology of the gospels suggests that Jesus would come back within their generation, but by the writing of 1 Peter (will all his mention of heaven and the imperishable) it is clear that they are looking forward more to a future life with Christ than with a present return to Christ in the here and now.

    Please explain for me--more coherently--the link you see between the two passages.

    Second: The word "grace" here is not the same Greek word as "grace" in the more classic "grace" passages like Ephesians 2:8-9.

    Leave a comment:


  • Studyin'2Show
    replied
    Hello Mark,

    I believe this verse in Peter is looking forward to judgment, where we are to receive grace because we will stand before the throne clothed in His righteousness. However, there is grace that has already been afforded us when He gave us that righteousness in which we will stand in that day. That's my understanding of the timing.

    God Bless!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark F
    replied
    coldfire136,

    In the OP walked wrote this at the end:

    Obedience, obedience to what?
    Let Christ explain this........
    Matthew 22:34
    34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    We haven't been set free from ourobligation to be obedient to all the law and the prophets...We have by Christ righteousness been set free from the results of our failure at keeping all the law and the prophets. We are still obligated to be obedient to all the law and the prophets.

    I commented based on that. In clarifying to Studyin'2show the question (in my mind) was: Is all the Scripture says concerning our righteousness in it's complete state now or yet to come in heaven?

    1 Peter 1 in verse 13 (and others) he tells us hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought to us.

    13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;KJV
    In NKJV:

    13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;



    The grace that will be brought to us implies something that is to come, for my understanding. When we take the wording of other passages that speak in a completed sense, this seems to look ahead for its completion.

    Leave a comment:


  • coldfire136
    replied
    Hi Mark F,
    Why did you quote 1 Peter? I am really not following your logic. Thanks for clarifying.

    Leave a comment:

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