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  • Are Christians Heathens and Pagans?

    Before everyone gets upset I am not calling you pagans, I am spirit filled, talk in tongues, and believe in laying on hands ... Do you call yourself a Gentile? If so according to strong's #1471 you are a heathen and according to strong's# 1484 you are a pagan. Gentile means pagan confused and with out God. So why do Christians call themselves gentiles?
    Last edited by mlaw31; Jan 15th 2008, 02:05 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by mlaw31 View Post
    Before everyone starts speaking in tongues and casting demons out of me and rebuking me in the name of Jesus... (not making light of these things I am spirit filled, talk in tongues, and believe in laying on hands) ... Do you call yourself a Gentile? If so according to strong's #1471 you are a heathen and according to strong's# 1484 you are a pagan. Gentile means pagan confused and with out God. So why do Christians call themselves gentiles?

    .. Alright, I'm confused! When you signed on you stated you were not a Christian and yet you claim to be spirit filled, speak in tongues and believe in laying on of hands. Sounds Penticostal to me and that's a Christian. And then out of the dust of confusion comes the question that any studied Christian knows the answer to.
    .. So be honest and tell us what you are. The answer to your question is that from the original Child of God's view the are two types of people in the world, Jew and Gentile. Since I'm not Jewish and I am a Christian, I'm a Gentile grafted into the Family of God.
    .. Now, please, whose leg are you trying to pull?

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    • #3
      I am not trying to start confusion I am not trying to pull your leg. I am not making this stuff up look it for yourself, I gave you the reference numbers. My point is those who believe in God should never have referred to as a Gentile, and never refer to themselves as Gentiles. It would have been more appropiate if the translators of the bible would have used another word, like nations. That is the very reason Jews will not listen to a Christian talk about Jesus you refer to your selves as Gentiles which mean pagan. Why would a God fearing Jew listen to someone who calls themselves a pagan? If you are interested in me and my beliefs please see the intro titled "shalom"

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      • #4
        Act 13:48And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Master: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

        Gentiles in Greek is ethnos (Strong's G1484) meaning...

        1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or living together
        a) a company, troop, swarm
        2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus
        a) the human family
        3) a tribe, nation, people group
        4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans, Gentiles
        5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

        It has multiple meanings.
        Thus says YHWH, "Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, Where the good way is, and walk in it; And you will find rest for your souls.
        -Jeremiah 6:16

        Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. - Matthew 11:29

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        • #5
          Originally we were pagans yes, because God chose the Jews as His people. So all non-Jews are pagans. Some Jews misinterpret the scriptures that they are born saved, simply because of their heritage.
          "Jew" symbolizes the name for the people of God. So if you are saved (only possible through faith) you're a Jew. If you believe in the one true God (Jesus) you are a Jew. If you believe in something else you're a pagan.

          God bless!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mike1983 View Post
            Originally we were pagans yes, because God chose the Jews as His people. So all non-Jews are pagans. Some Jews misinterpret the scriptures that they are born saved, simply because of their heritage.
            "Jew" symbolizes the name for the people of God. So if you are saved (only possible through faith) you're a Jew. If you believe in the one true God (Jesus) you are a Jew. If you believe in something else you're a pagan.

            I would recommend a close reading and study of the book of Ephesians. It will show you that Gentiles who become Christians are not Jews and do not become Jews, but we are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God through faith in Christ.

            To become a Jew, we would have to do those things that the church in the beginning deemed not required-- particularly circumcision and keeping the Sabbaths, New Moons, holy days, and dietary commands. We would have to become Jewish proselytes before we could be accepted. This was the earliest controversy within the church, that became an issue as soon as God accepted the God-fearing Gentiles apart from the law.
            Love In Christ,
            Tanya






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            • #7
              Originally posted by mlaw31 View Post
              I am not trying to start confusion I am not trying to pull your leg. I am not making this stuff up look it for yourself, I gave you the reference numbers. My point is those who believe in God should never have referred to as a Gentile, and never refer to themselves as Gentiles. It would have been more appropiate if the translators of the bible would have used another word, like nations. That is the very reason Jews will not listen to a Christian talk about Jesus you refer to your selves as Gentiles which mean pagan. Why would a God fearing Jew listen to someone who calls themselves a pagan? If you are interested in me and my beliefs please see the intro titled "shalom"

              .. Diff beat me to it but yes, we are concerned about the Jewish brethren. And the problem is that we know our position very well and we hqve chosen honesty. Your problem is very similar to the Watch Tower people when they translated the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. you have and they did assign a single meaning to a word and the both of you have ignored contextual implication.
              .. As a man that has traveled the entire world I have had to become familiar with a number of languages during my travels. The one constant I have found is context! ie. If I say, as Texans oft do, "Ot's pouring cats and puppy dogs out there right now." The kids will be very disapointed if they scamper to the door, expecting to find buckets of critters falling out of the sky. No, they will likely be yelled at by mom to close that door and not let the rian into the house. You are understanding the word used by your personal defintion and are totally disregarding the context from which the satement was drawn.
              .. I hope this helps.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mlaw31 View Post
                Before everyone starts speaking in tongues and casting demons out of me and rebuking me in the name of Jesus... (not making light of these things I am spirit filled, talk in tongues, and believe in laying on hands) ... Do you call yourself a Gentile? If so according to strong's #1471 you are a heathen and according to strong's# 1484 you are a pagan. Gentile means pagan confused and with out God. So why do Christians call themselves gentiles?
                I'm obviously uneducated. What are strong's#1471 and #1484? Doesn't sound like the bible to me! Is this an arguement based on one mans understanding of a translation writen in a book, against another mans view of that understanding in that book, against anyone who wants to post their understanding of that mans understanding against their own understanding of what book says?
                Seems like a waste of all our time! It's less important what title is applied to me by you, others on this site or by myself. Let God name me on the last day.
                1 Corinthians 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

                Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptised in the name of Paul?

                KJV

                May the power of the Spirit of our God unite us. SofTy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mlaw31 View Post
                  Before everyone starts speaking in tongues and casting demons out of me and rebuking me in the name of Jesus... (not making light of these things I am spirit filled, talk in tongues, and believe in laying on hands) ... Do you call yourself a Gentile? If so according to strong's #1471 you are a heathen and according to strong's# 1484 you are a pagan. Gentile means pagan confused and with out God. So why do Christians call themselves gentiles?
                  I don't thing Strong claimed Divine inspiration, so I don't see the point?
                  Personally, I don't go around calling people Pagans or Heathens.

                  So to ask--which spirit are you filled with?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Strong#1484 (probably from #1486 habit, custom, manner) arace (as the same habit) ie. a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jew) one (usually by implication pagan) Gentile, Heathen, Nation, People. As I stated before it should have been translated more properly as nations which references back to the OT tribes. Specifically the tribe of Ephraim, or the house of Jacob or the nations.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                      I would recommend a close reading and study of the book of Ephesians. It will show you that Gentiles who become Christians are not Jews and do not become Jews, but we are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God through faith in Christ.

                      To become a Jew, we would have to do those things that the church in the beginning deemed not required-- particularly circumcision and keeping the Sabbaths, New Moons, holy days, and dietary commands. We would have to become Jewish proselytes before we could be accepted. This was the earliest controversy within the church, that became an issue as soon as God accepted the God-fearing Gentiles apart from the law.
                      We are not apart from the law. Jesus says not one letter will be scraped from the law. Baptism is our circumcision, and it is a circumcision through faith which we still require. We also still have to keep the sabbath, and if there is to be kept any feast or special day, it ought to be a biblical one.
                      We just don't need to sacrifice anymore, because we already have one.
                      Does God change? I think not, we still need to keep His commandments and His instructions, OT and NT.

                      And the Jews (by heritage) who call themselves Jews and don't keep God's commandments, with no sacrifices to pay for the breaking of it (Jesus), aren't really Jews. As Jesus says, Jews who call themselves Jews but really belong to the synagogue of satan.

                      You are a Jew through faith. And thank God for Jesus taking our sins upon the cross for us not keeping God's law.

                      God bless!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mlaw31 View Post
                        Strong#1484 (probably from #1486 habit, custom, manner) arace (as the same habit) ie. a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jew) one (usually by implication pagan) Gentile, Heathen, Nation, People. As I stated before it should have been translated more properly as nations which references back to the OT tribes. Specifically the tribe of Ephraim, or the house of Jacob or the nations.
                        You ever say you're happy? In the the 50's you would have said you were gay. Context is everything...
                        Call to Me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known. Jeremiah 33:3
                        You put the stars in the sky and you know them by name, You see the depths of my heart and You love me the same, You are amazing, God.
                        I do not 'hope' I am saved and I do not 'think' I am saved, I know it with an absolute conviction. I know that I am saved just as I know that I think and I know that I feel. I am purchased and sealed, His possession.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mlaw31 View Post
                          So why do Christians call themselves gentiles?
                          Who said they do?

                          I don't consider myself a "Gentile," and in response to your initial post, I don't consider myself a "Pagan" or "Heathen" either.

                          Also consider that the word in our modern-day doesn't carry the same connotations (cultural definitions and meanings) that the word may have carried two thousand years ago. In the most generic sense possible, being a "Gentile" simply meant to not be a "Jew." But it was the day and age that the term was originally used that made the word synonymous with "pagan" or "heathen." In modern-day, "Gentile" in the most generic sense means "not a Jew," but it isn't generally used as a synonym for "pagan" or "heathen" anymore.

                          As the previous poster used as an example, the word "gay" in modern-day carries completely different connotations and synonyms than it did fifty years ago.

                          Before everyone starts speaking in tongues and casting demons out of me and rebuking me in the name of Jesus
                          Why do you assume that we're going to react so drastically to a simple question? It seems that you have many mistaken assumptions about how Christians should act (that, or else you've met or seen too many Christians overreact to such questions).
                          To This Day

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mlaw31 View Post
                            Strong#1484 (probably from #1486 habit, custom, manner) arace (as the same habit) ie. a tribe; specifically a foreign (non-Jew) one (usually by implication pagan) Gentile, Heathen, Nation, People. As I stated before it should have been translated more properly as nations which references back to the OT tribes. Specifically the tribe of Ephraim, or the house of Jacob or the nations.
                            mlaw, are you suggesting that you are directly descended from the tribe of Ephraim?
                            Blessings,

                            Road Warrior


                            Proverbs 4:23
                            23 Guard your heart above all else,
                            for it determines the course of your life.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A few people referred to the time and text the word Gentile was used. That it is no longer used in that fashion like the word happy... But the problem I see with that is in the time the bible was written Gentile did mean pagan, and we cannot take it out of context or the change the meaning to fit our understanding. An understanding of the word of God comes from revelation through the spirit of God and study. What I am simply saying regardless if people believe it or not, Christians never should have been called Gentiles. The word ethnos #1484 should have translated as nations. Then it would coincide with the rest of the scriptures and the context in which it was used. I agree the context around the scriptures are referring to a group of people who are not pagan. So why use a word that means pagan? Why not use the word tat best fits "nations" As far as the comment I made (which I have now changed) at the start of this thread if it offended any one that was not my intentions. As I said I was not making light of those things, but simply joking to try to lessen the intensity behind what I said. I have not once degraded anyone or questioned their walk with God, but because I ask questions that conflict with what people have been taught and/or read I am attacked. I do not understand why we cannot discuss scripture as adults with out degrading one another. I am not calling you pagans I am saying once again the word gentile should never have been used. The word of God is consistent through out.

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