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  • My Kingdom Is NOT Of This World!!!!!

    With regards to Christs statement that his kingdom is not of this world, why can we not accept what he has told us, according to the following?

    Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence.

    Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

    Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

    Heb 11:10 For he looked For a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.






  • #2
    Understand this:

    Jesus's Kingdom is the Kingdom of Heaven. This kingdom is not of this world.

    The Kingdom that ruls this earth is not the Kingdom of Heven, for Satan still rules over the minds and hearts of men. Also, Paul calls him the "god of this world". Mind you, that was written after Penticost.

    Jesus is coming back, and His Kingdom is coming with Him. Satan's kingdom will fall, and the Lord will set up His Kingdom here on earth, as both the OT and NT proclaims. When this is done, the Beast will be burning in eternal torment, the false prophet will join him, and the god of this world will be sealed off far away from the planet that he has ruled for so long.

    Comment


    • #3
      Copied from http://www.trueheartofchrist.org

      Luke 4:43 But Jesus said to them, "I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns too, for that is what I was sent to do."

      Luke 9:2
      and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

      Luke 9:60 But Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God."

      What is the kingdom of God, if this was the good news Jesus was proclaiming why do we never hear about this in church, where is the kingdom of God? It is amazing that the bible does not tell us what it is, where it is. If this is part of the good news that Jesus proclaimed how come the bible fleetingly refers to it?

      That is a mystery, it would be great if one of the bible writers had written one of the books devoted exclusively to it, but I guess thats part of Gods mystery, some things He only shows to those that diligently seek it.

      Maybe we've always had it wrong in church, maybe we should be proclaiming the Kingdom of God. A sermon about the Kingdom of God has got to be more effective then 'God loves you' every week. Jesus told them what they are working for which builds faith, 'God loves you' is hard to see when the bills aren't paid.

      I wonder how people could have possibly done bible studies before computers. Computers are amazing devices and by typing a few keys we can find out a huge amount about the kingdom of God. Here are some verses:

      Luk 6:20 Then he looked up at his disciples and said: "Blessed are you who are poor, for the kingdom of God belongs to you.


      Luk 7:28 I tell you, among those born of women no one is greater than John. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he is.

      Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were in force until John; since then, the good news of the kingdom of God has been proclaimed, and everyone is urged to enter it.

      From the verses listed above we find that everybody is urged to enter it, it belongs to the poor and the least in the kingdom is greater than any person born of a woman. The bible does not contain a lot of information about what it is, it is left up to our own imagination I suppose.

      Luk 18:16 But Jesus called for the children, saying, "Let the little children come to me and do not try to stop them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these".


      Luk 18:25 In fact, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

      Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God".

      1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God.


      I could keep adding verses here and going on and on but I think you get the point. Traditional christianity teaches that good people go to heaven but Jesus says believers inherit the kingdom of God. To me the greatest mystery of all is how did christianity come up with this heaven/hell theme?
      To be a christian, to be a follower of Christ means we are striving to enter the Kingdom of God. To understand the book of Revelations you must first understand what the kingdom of God is because Revelations is all about the kingdom of God. Jesus was the first promise, the Kingdom of God is the second promise.

      Revelations is the last book of the bible. It is the last opportunity to fulfill all things left to fulfill. The bible is a complete work. Revelations must be about the Kingdom of God.

      Luk 17:20 Now at one point the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom of God was coming, so he answered, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed"

      Luk 21:31 So also you, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.

      Luk 23:51 (He had not consented to their plan and action.) He was from the Judean town of Arimathea, and was looking forward to the kingdom of God.

      And from these verses we learn that the kingdom of God is in the future of the time these words were spoken. When we see some signs occurring we will know the Kingdom is very near but we won't actually see the Kingdom established.

      Luk 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.

      It must be a physical place because Jesus will drink of the fruit of the vine in it.

      Rev 5:9 They were singing a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were killed, and at the cost of your own blood you have purchased for God persons from every tribe, language, people, and nation. You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

      Revelations 5:9 says that believers are the kingdom and priests and they will reign with Christ on the earth. Yes it is a physical place.
      I've only included a short summary of those verses explaining what the kingdom is, where it is and when it will come because many christians already know that the kingdom of God Christ referred to is to be here on earth. Some christian denominations still teach of a heaven/hell so this summary is for them. The bible says little about heaven except that no man has ever ascended there.

      Luk 13:28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves thrown out.


      Luk 13:29 Then people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and take their places at the banquet table in the kingdom of God.

      For me this was the part that was really surprising. If there is a real literal Kingdom of God and Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be there they too must also be literal, the banquet feast is also literal. WOW! This changes everything.

      Parables aren't randomly picked for some moral issue, these are things that will really happen in a real world! All the puzzles pieces start falling into place. Read the parables in relation to the kingdom of God. We all know Gods word, if one parable has a literal fulfillment, they all do. So what does this say about a book like Revelations, is it possible that all the visions have a literal fulfillment? If even a simple parable has a literal fulfillment then we know not a single word is wasted.

      Luk 9:27 But I tell you most certainly, there are some standing here who will not experience death before they see the kingdom of God.

      For some peoples interpretation this has always been a hard verse but now it fits right in. To me the verse above says some christian pretenders will get to see the kingdom of God. Though I'm getting a little ahead of myself God holds these souls, whereever we go after death, until we are resurrected into the real literal kingdom of God. What use to be hard to understand now snaps into place.

      Now this is where it gets weird and all preconceived concepts went out the window for me. When Jesus compared the kingdom to a mustard seed I was always lost, I had no clue how a mustard seed could relate to the kingdom of God.

      Luk 13:18 Thus Jesus asked,"What is the kingdom of God like? To what should I compare it? It is like a mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his garden. It grew and became a tree, and the wild birds nested in its branches." Again he said, "To what should I compare the kingdom of God? It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed with three measures of flour until all the dough had risen."

      When the kingdom of God comes it will start as a mustard seed, the smallest of the seeds and grow. Now most theologians will say that this started with Jesus and has been growing over the last 2000 years and this is true but the physical kingdom will not appear suddenly with millions of bible thumping believers. So Gods kingdom will not cover the entire world when it comes. It will start small and grow. Zec 4:10 For who dares make light of small beginnings? ...

      No word, regardless of time, can ever be a lie. The kingdom MUST start small.

      Luk 19:11 While the people were listening to these things, Jesus proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.

      Though Luke 19:11 requires a little more theological discussion then I intend to place here, no word of the bible will ever be proven to be incorrect, regardless of time, so this verse supports that the kingdom of God will not immediately appear with millions of resurrected people.
      Now there are times when Jesus states the kingdom of God is in your midst, has overtaken you, etc but a true christian should be able to reconcile how things can be both present and future to God. God has already willed it to be completed so it is finished, now it just has to come to pass in human terms.

      The final question is when is the kingdom of God going to start on the earth and this question is answered in Revelations.

      Revelations 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven saying: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,and he will reign for ever and ever."

      This is as far as I can go here with the Kingdom of God. But know that it is a literal kingdom, here on earth. Christ will reign and believers will reign with Him. The kingdom will start small and grow. And finally, the kingdom will start at the blow of the seventh trumpet.
      One thing I think I need to stress here, if you believe the bible needs to be 'interpreted' and the words don't mean what they say then you'll never get it. There's no sense in you even reading the bible because you're just fooling yourself. Anybody who 'interprets' the words to have some deep theological meaning but doesn't read the actual words is blowing air out his backside. I'm trying to be nice about this but there is really no way to be nice when the Word is the most important part of the bible and you skip over the words and give it some other meaning.

      Heb 12:28 So since we are receiving an unshakable kingdom, let us give thanks, and through this let us offer worship pleasing to God in devotion and awe.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by third hero View Post
        Understand this:

        Jesus's Kingdom is the Kingdom of Heaven. This kingdom is not of this world.

        The Kingdom that ruls this earth is not the Kingdom of Heven, for Satan still rules over the minds and hearts of men. Also, Paul calls him the "god of this world". Mind you, that was written after Penticost.

        Jesus is coming back, and His Kingdom is coming with Him. Satan's kingdom will fall, and the Lord will set up His Kingdom here on earth, as both the OT and NT proclaims. When this is done, the Beast will be burning in eternal torment, the false prophet will join him, and the god of this world will be sealed off far away from the planet that he has ruled for so long.
        Knowing that Jesus returns from heaven and as you have said his kingdom is coming with him would that therefore be the new Jerusalem?

        Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
        Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
        Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

        Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ahealingman View Post
          Copied from http://www.trueheartofchrist.org

          Luke 4:43 But Jesus said to them, "I must proclaim the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns too, for that is what I was sent to do."

          Luke 9:2 and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

          Luke 9:60 But Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God."

          What is the kingdom of God, if this was the good news Jesus was proclaiming why do we never hear about this in church, where is the kingdom of God? It is amazing that the bible does not tell us what it is, where it is. If this is part of the good news that Jesus proclaimed how come the bible fleetingly refers to it?

          That is a mystery, it would be great if one of the bible writers had written one of the books devoted exclusively to it, but I guess thats part of Gods mystery, some things He only shows to those that diligently seek it.
          Maybe we've always had it wrong in church, maybe we should be proclaiming the Kingdom of God. A sermon about the Kingdom of God has got to be more effective then 'God loves you' every week. Jesus told them what they are working for which builds faith, 'God loves you' is hard to see when the bills aren't paid.

          I wonder how people could have possibly done bible studies before computers. Computers are amazing devices and by typing a few keys we can find out a huge amount about the kingdom of God. Here are some verses:

          Luk 6:20 Then he looked up at his disciples and said: "Blessed are you who are poor, for the kingdom of God belongs to you.


          Luk 7:28 I tell you, among those born of women no one is greater than John. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he is.

          Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were in force until John; since then, the good news of the kingdom of God has been proclaimed, and everyone is urged to enter it.

          From the verses listed above we find that everybody is urged to enter it, it belongs to the poor and the least in the kingdom is greater than any person born of a woman. The bible does not contain a lot of information about what it is, it is left up to our own imagination I suppose.

          Luk 18:16 But Jesus called for the children, saying, "Let the little children come to me and do not try to stop them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these".


          Luk 18:25 In fact, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.

          Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God".

          1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God.


          I could keep adding verses here and going on and on but I think you get the point. Traditional christianity teaches that good people go to heaven but Jesus says believers inherit the kingdom of God. To me the greatest mystery of all is how did christianity come up with this heaven/hell theme?
          To be a christian, to be a follower of Christ means we are striving to enter the Kingdom of God. To understand the book of Revelations you must first understand what the kingdom of God is because Revelations is all about the kingdom of God. Jesus was the first promise, the Kingdom of God is the second promise.

          Revelations is the last book of the bible. It is the last opportunity to fulfill all things left to fulfill. The bible is a complete work. Revelations must be about the Kingdom of God.

          Luk 17:20 Now at one point the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom of God was coming, so he answered, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed"

          Luk 21:31 So also you, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near.

          Luk 23:51 (He had not consented to their plan and action.) He was from the Judean town of Arimathea, and was looking forward to the kingdom of God.

          And from these verses we learn that the kingdom of God is in the future of the time these words were spoken. When we see some signs occurring we will know the Kingdom is very near but we won't actually see the Kingdom established.

          Luk 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.

          It must be a physical place because Jesus will drink of the fruit of the vine in it.

          Rev 5:9 They were singing a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were killed, and at the cost of your own blood you have purchased for God persons from every tribe, language, people, and nation. You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

          Revelations 5:9 says that believers are the kingdom and priests and they will reign with Christ on the earth. Yes it is a physical place.
          I've only included a short summary of those verses explaining what the kingdom is, where it is and when it will come because many christians already know that the kingdom of God Christ referred to is to be here on earth. Some christian denominations still teach of a heaven/hell so this summary is for them. The bible says little about heaven except that no man has ever ascended there.

          Luk 13:28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves thrown out.


          Luk 13:29 Then people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and take their places at the banquet table in the kingdom of God.

          For me this was the part that was really surprising. If there is a real literal Kingdom of God and Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be there they too must also be literal, the banquet feast is also literal. WOW! This changes everything.

          Parables aren't randomly picked for some moral issue, these are things that will really happen in a real world! All the puzzles pieces start falling into place. Read the parables in relation to the kingdom of God. We all know Gods word, if one parable has a literal fulfillment, they all do. So what does this say about a book like Revelations, is it possible that all the visions have a literal fulfillment? If even a simple parable has a literal fulfillment then we know not a single word is wasted.

          Luk 9:27 But I tell you most certainly, there are some standing here who will not experience death before they see the kingdom of God.

          For some peoples interpretation this has always been a hard verse but now it fits right in. To me the verse above says some christian pretenders will get to see the kingdom of God. Though I'm getting a little ahead of myself God holds these souls, whereever we go after death, until we are resurrected into the real literal kingdom of God. What use to be hard to understand now snaps into place.

          Now this is where it gets weird and all preconceived concepts went out the window for me. When Jesus compared the kingdom to a mustard seed I was always lost, I had no clue how a mustard seed could relate to the kingdom of God.

          Luk 13:18 Thus Jesus asked,"What is the kingdom of God like? To what should I compare it? It is like a mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his garden. It grew and became a tree, and the wild birds nested in its branches." Again he said, "To what should I compare the kingdom of God? It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed with three measures of flour until all the dough had risen."

          When the kingdom of God comes it will start as a mustard seed, the smallest of the seeds and grow. Now most theologians will say that this started with Jesus and has been growing over the last 2000 years and this is true but the physical kingdom will not appear suddenly with millions of bible thumping believers. So Gods kingdom will not cover the entire world when it comes. It will start small and grow. Zec 4:10 For who dares make light of small beginnings? ...

          No word, regardless of time, can ever be a lie. The kingdom MUST start small.

          Luk 19:11 While the people were listening to these things, Jesus proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.

          Though Luke 19:11 requires a little more theological discussion then I intend to place here, no word of the bible will ever be proven to be incorrect, regardless of time, so this verse supports that the kingdom of God will not immediately appear with millions of resurrected people.
          Now there are times when Jesus states the kingdom of God is in your midst, has overtaken you, etc but a true christian should be able to reconcile how things can be both present and future to God. God has already willed it to be completed so it is finished, now it just has to come to pass in human terms.

          The final question is when is the kingdom of God going to start on the earth and this question is answered in Revelations.

          Revelations 11:15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven saying: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,and he will reign for ever and ever."

          This is as far as I can go here with the Kingdom of God. But know that it is a literal kingdom, here on earth. Christ will reign and believers will reign with Him. The kingdom will start small and grow. And finally, the kingdom will start at the blow of the seventh trumpet.
          One thing I think I need to stress here, if you believe the bible needs to be 'interpreted' and the words don't mean what they say then you'll never get it. There's no sense in you even reading the bible because you're just fooling yourself. Anybody who 'interprets' the words to have some deep theological meaning but doesn't read the actual words is blowing air out his backside. I'm trying to be nice about this but there is really no way to be nice when the Word is the most important part of the bible and you skip over the words and give it some other meaning.

          Heb 12:28 So since we are receiving an unshakable kingdom, let us give thanks, and through this let us offer worship pleasing to God in devotion and awe.
          As you have said Revelation as well as other scriptures tell us that Christ was talking about the new Jerusalem, since it was Christ that was speaking to the Apostles concerning the kingdom of God. It is this promise that we are waitng for when all is fulfilled.

          Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

          This is the testimony of Christ.

          Comment


          • #6
            I am beginning to think today most churches/denominations are falling into the same trap as the Pharisees and Sadducees where they forced all prophecy into one 'Messiah'

            The bible is the 'completed work of God' which shows us all things. Today, we can see where the Pharisees and Sadducess were wrong and many places how/why they were wrong.

            People, from what I've read seem to be forcing all prophecy into one time period, and since people have always been wrong in the past, I am beginning to think they are wrong again.

            God gave people the book of Revelations and people have used their wisdom on it but God tells us what He does with mans wisdom.

            I am now leaning very far to Revelations being in its most simpliest form, if God gave us the book, He gave it to us for a reason and that reason must be so that we could know what will occur. God is infinity smarter than us so Revelations must be in its most simpliest form so that us fools can understand it. Only fools that believe every word of the bible will understand it.

            Jesus MUST reign here on earth for one thousand years, that is what the bible says. Believers will reign with Him. A new heaven and a new earth can come 50,000 years from now and still fulfill prophecy. A new Jerusalem can come 50,000 after that and still fulfill prophecy.

            Everybody says God will fulfill all prophecy soon. Everybody was wrong before.
            Last edited by ahealingman; Jan 21st 2008, 02:26 PM. Reason: proofread error

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
              With regards to Christs statement that his kingdom is not of this world, why can we not accept what he has told us, according to the following?

              Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence.

              Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

              Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

              Heb 11:10 For he looked For a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

              Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
              I think John 3:16 is in reference to the coming of the New Kingdom of God, upon the destruction of the old heaven and earth.


              Isaiah 65:17
              For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

              Luke 21:33-36
              Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

              This world is still part of the Kingdom of God as it is now, which is why all nations currently serve our creator. Regardless, the Old Kingdom will be destroyed seeing as how sin is present within it, and the New Kingdom will be created by God with the absence of sin and death.
              Last edited by Friend of I AM; Jan 21st 2008, 02:35 PM. Reason: clarification..:)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ahealingman View Post
                I am beginning to think today most churches/denominations are falling into the same trap as the Pharisees and Sadducees where they forced all prophecy into one 'Messiah'

                The bible is the 'completed work of God' which shows us all things. Today, we can see where the Pharisees and Sadducess were wrong and many places how/why they were wrong.

                People, from what I've read seem to be forcing all prophecy into one time period, and since people have always been wrong in the past, I am beginning to think they are wrong again.

                God gave people the book of Revelations and people have used their wisdom on it but God tells us what He does with mans wisdom.

                I am now leaning very far to Revelations being in its most simpliest form, if God gave us the book, He gave it to us for a reason and that reason must be so that we could know what will occur. God is infinity smarter than us so Revelations must be in its most simpliest form so that us fools can understand it. Only fools that believe every word of the bible will understand it.

                Jesus MUST reign here on earth for one thousand years, that is what the bible says. Believers will reign with Him. A new heaven and a new earth can come 50,000 years from now and still fulfill prophecy. A new Jerusalem can come 50,000 after that and still fulfill prophecy.

                Everybody says God will fulfill all prophecy soon. Everybody was wrong before.
                Are you saying that Christs kingdom is on this earth, which is contrary to what he said?
                Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                  I think John 3:16 is in reference to the coming of the New Kingdom of God, upon the destruction of the old heaven and earth.


                  Isaiah 65:17
                  For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

                  Luke 21:33-36
                  Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

                  This world is still part of the Kingdom of God as it is now, which is why all nations currently serve our creator. Regardless, the Old Kingdom will be destroyed seeing as how sin is present within it, and the New Kingdom will be created by God with the absence of sin and death.
                  You will find that not everyone believes that this earth will be destoyed, even though it is written.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                    I think those things are in reference to the coming of the New Kingdom of God, upon the destruction of the old heaven and earth.


                    Isaiah 65:17
                    For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

                    Luke 21:33-36
                    Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

                    This world is still part of the Kingdom of God as it is now, which is why all nations currently serve our creator. Regardless, the Old Kingdom will be destroyed seeing as how sin is present within it, and the New Kingdom will be created by God with the absence of sin and death.
                    Great start, now I am going to finish this thought.

                    God has a promise to fulfill. Look at Psalm 2. This plainly states that the one called the Son of God has to rule this world.

                    According to Paul, the god of this world is Satan. This is going to change.

                    When Christ returns, according to Revelation 20, Satan is sealed away from this earth, and Christ rules this world for at least 1000 years, with the Tribulation saints with Him. According to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:23-26, Jesus will have to rule this planet until every last enemy is defeated. The last being Death. Death can not defeated until every last sinful person whom God will have allowed to be born dies. This happens at the last day, when the wicked surround Jerusalem, the city which the Lord wil rule the world from, along with the Saints.

                    When God sends down fire and destroys the wicked, then the time will come for Judgment Day, where all creation is judged. When this happens , heaven, which is this universe, and the earth are destroyed. Again, according to Paul in 1 Corinthians and Peter in 2 Peter 3, Jesus hands this universe over to His Father for destruction on that day where all creation is judged.

                    My point?

                    New Jerusalem is the new universe, completely devoid of the "old System" which has sin written all over it. The Old things include God giving grace even though all creation is infected with sin. New Jerusalem, the city where God will reside with men, can not come to this earth, mainly because this earth is still infected with sin. It has to be destroyed first.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by third hero View Post
                      Great start, now I am going to finish this thought.

                      God has a promise to fulfill. Look at Psalm 2. This plainly states that the one called the Son of God has to rule this world.

                      According to Paul, the god of this world is Satan. This is going to change.

                      When Christ returns, according to Revelation 20, Satan is sealed away from this earth, and Christ rules this world for at least 1000 years, with the Tribulation saints with Him. According to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:23-26, Jesus will have to rule this planet until every last enemy is defeated. The last being Death. Death can not defeated until every last sinful person whom God will have allowed to be born dies. This happens at the last day, when the wicked surround Jerusalem, the city which the Lord wil rule the world from, along with the Saints.

                      When God sends down fire and destroys the wicked, then the time will come for Judgment Day, where all creation is judged. When this happens , heaven, which is this universe, and the earth are destroyed. Again, according to Paul in 1 Corinthians and Peter in 2 Peter 3, Jesus hands this universe over to His Father for destruction on that day where all creation is judged.

                      My point?

                      New Jerusalem is the new universe, completely devoid of the "old System" which has sin written all over it. The Old things include God giving grace even though all creation is infected with sin. New Jerusalem, the city where God will reside with men, can not come to this earth, mainly because this earth is still infected with sin. It has to be destroyed first.
                      I think in the 1000 year period now - as Christ's death/resurrection was suppossed signify the beginning of his reign over both heaven and earth. Ask yourself this question, how could we have authority over Satan through Christ's name right now, unless this world was already subjected to Christ's authority?

                      The Kingdom that you speak of I actually believe is in reference to the anti-christ kingdom. Jerusalem was destroyed for a reason, because we are now living stones of the new Kingdom being built by God. The recreation and rebuilding of the Kindom will be an abomination before almighty God, as it will signify something that he has commanded to never be rebuilt again. Why do you think that Jerusalem has been destroyed everytime someone has made an attempt to rebuld it? I believe the act of rebuilding the temple will cause the abomination which causes desolation referred to in Daniel.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by third hero View Post
                        Great start, now I am going to finish this thought.

                        God has a promise to fulfill. Look at Psalm 2. This plainly states that the one called the Son of God has to rule this world.

                        According to Paul, the god of this world is Satan. This is going to change.

                        When Christ returns, according to Revelation 20, Satan is sealed away from this earth, and Christ rules this world for at least 1000 years, with the Tribulation saints with Him. According to Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:23-26, Jesus will have to rule this planet until every last enemy is defeated. The last being Death. Death can not defeated until every last sinful person whom God will have allowed to be born dies. This happens at the last day, when the wicked surround Jerusalem, the city which the Lord wil rule the world from, along with the Saints.

                        When God sends down fire and destroys the wicked, then the time will come for Judgment Day, where all creation is judged. When this happens , heaven, which is this universe, and the earth are destroyed. Again, according to Paul in 1 Corinthians and Peter in 2 Peter 3, Jesus hands this universe over to His Father for destruction on that day where all creation is judged.

                        My point?

                        New Jerusalem is the new universe, completely devoid of the "old System" which has sin written all over it. The Old things include God giving grace even though all creation is infected with sin. New Jerusalem, the city where God will reside with men, can not come to this earth, mainly because this earth is still infected with sin. It has to be destroyed first.
                        With the understanding that the kingdom of the beast/antichrist is the holy place, and that the beasts kingdom last until The return of Christ when he is cast into the lake of fire, how can Christ rule from the same place, at the same time?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                          I think in the 1000 year period now - as Christ's death/resurrection was suppossed signify the beginning of his reign over both heaven and earth. Ask yourself this question, how could we have authority over Satan through Christ's name right now, unless this world was already subjected to Christ's authority?

                          The Kingdom that you speak of I actually believe is in reference to the anti-christ kingdom. Jerusalem was destroyed for a reason, because we are now living stones of the new Kingdom being built by God. The recreation and rebuilding of the Kindom will be an abomination before almighty God, as it will signify something that he has commanded to never be rebuilt again. Why do you think that Jerusalem has been destroyed everytime someone has made an attempt to rebuld it? I believe the act of rebuilding the temple will cause the abomination which causes desolation referred to in Daniel.
                          Who and where are the saints that reign with Christ during the 1000 years, that were killed during the reign of the beast /antichrist?

                          Christ has been gone for about a 2000 years now, so what 1000 years are you speaking of.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Friend of I AM View Post
                            I think in the 1000 year period now - as Christ's death/resurrection was suppossed signify the beginning of his reign over both heaven and earth. Ask yourself this question, how could we have authority over Satan through Christ's name right now, unless this world was already subjected to Christ's authority?

                            The Kingdom that you speak of I actually believe is in reference to the anti-christ kingdom. Jerusalem was destroyed for a reason, because we are now living stones of the new Kingdom being built by God. The recreation and rebuilding of the Kindom will be an abomination before almighty God, as it will signify something that he has commanded to never be rebuilt again. Why do you think that Jerusalem has been destroyed everytime someone has made an attempt to rebuld it? I believe the act of rebuilding the temple will cause the abomination which causes desolation referred to in Daniel.
                            I actually explained this difficult subject in another thread, but I sense no ill intent in your question, and so I'll answer it again. Notice I said that this is difficult.

                            In Job, God had all of the angels assemble bnefore hIm, with Satan included. Remember, Satan did not get that name until after his fall. Therefore, this happened after Adam's fatal error. Now, God has total authority over Satan, correct? Even though God is in total control, Satan still had leeway, as the accuser. God brought up Job as a man without peer, an upright and blameless man. Satan accused him of being soft, saying things like "he is only like that because you protect him".

                            You see, Satan has control over the hearts of men, no thanks to Adam submitting himself, and us with him, to Satan. God still has authority over Satan, even though he is in the position that he is in.

                            It is the same with Lord Jesus. Jesus has the power and authority of the Father Himself. This means that the exact same abilities that God has on all of heaven and earth, Jesus has. This includes the ability to limit, and have authority over Satan, the god of this world. What does this mean?

                            This means that all who operate in the name of Lord Jesus has the same ability as Lord Jesus. This includes having authority and poweer over all of our enemies, spiritual ones that is. Satan can still operate in the minds and hearts of men who have not been freed by the Blood of the Lamb. Moreover, he can attack us by using these men, or by using demonic suggestion to bring us to our knees, which has been mostly successful up to this point, with all of us believers having at least one time when we were not strong enough to resist temptation to the end. Like Lord Jesus, we have power over the enemy, where every time we say the words, the enemy has to follow our instruction.

                            However, even though Jesus has the authority over the evil one, the evil one stil has power over mankind. It is only natural for the Lord to have a time limit for any of His creation to control other creatures that He created. All mankind was made for Him, by Him, and a time is going to come where Satan will lose the authority over mankind that Adam gave to him. Im short, Jesus, when He returns, takes it from him. You see, the Beast, the son of perdition is given Satan's authority. When CHrist returns, he defeats the beast, and takes the power that Satan had over mankind. At the same time, Satan is sealed away from mankind, because Jesus is going to start the process of ending this world. This includes the Lord ruling over all of mankind.. well.. at least what is left of mankind.


                            There are enemies that we do not know about, or at least we do not pay much attention to, that Jesus must first defeat, like sickness, addiction, and the afflictions of man. Mankind must learn to walk in the commandments of Lord Jesus, and Lord Jesus must rule over them as God promised David.

                            I hope this helps a little.

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                            • #15
                              I always thought that Jesus meant His kingdom does not have a seat of government on this earth, that He did not run His kingdom from such as Buckingham Palace for QE2, or the White House for George Bush, etc.

                              Now I don`t know what to think.
                              Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

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