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  • Baptism of the Spirit and Salvation, are one in the same

    Godsgirl wrote:[Theologians often confuse the baptism in the Holy Spirit with salvation. They often regard these two experiences as being the same. This confuses believers. They incorrectly assume that salvation is the same as the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The Bible does not teach this.]

    Theologians aside; In Joh 3:3 Jesus himself said that one must be born again in order to see the kingdom of God.
    The question then is, "What specifically is Jesus referring to when He says; Born again"? Does He leave it open to interpretation? No, He is very clear on the requirement.

    Jhn 3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    In John 3:5, Jesus further explains exactly what He is talking about. Obviously, the birth by water is how we come into the world in the first place, the second form of rebirth is the key to where we go in the next life.

    [The Bible clearly teaches that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from salvation and comes after a person is saved, although it can occur at the time of salvation]

    You say that Salvation and baptism of the Spirit are not the same thing, it seems that Jesus does not agree with you.
    He does not say that if you believe in me without being baptised in the Spirit, you will still see the Knigdom of Heaven, instead, He is emphatic about the requirement of baptism in the Spirit.

    Jhn 3:5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    When Nicodemus questioned this requirement, Jesus said in John 3:7

    Jhn 3:7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    Baptism of the Spirit equates to a very specific life altering event. When one is beborn and baptised in the Spirit, their old self dies along side Jesus as He died on the cross so that we could be forgiven of our past sins. The Rebirth is the emergence of our New self, as Jesus emerged from His death on the 3rd day.
    A person who has been truly baptised in the Spirit is not the same person that they were before. The Old man, as the Bible refers to us before we are reborn in the the Spirit, follows the ways of the world and the result is a man living in sin in a sinful world.
    The only way for us to escape, or be Saved ,or receive our Salvation, is through the way that Jesus provided for us. Jesus said," I am the Way, no man shall enter Heaven except through me."
    When one is reborn and baptised in the Spirit, as Jesus said in John 3:3, we follow the Holy Spirit as He leads us through the "Valley of the Shadow of Death". Many believe that this is the passage from this life to the next, this is not the case. The Valley of the Shadow of Death is the physical world that we all must live in while we are alive. Those that chose to walk through it alone will not receive the Salvation that awaits all those who have turned from their Old ways and instead, been baptised in the Holy Spirit as He leads us from the worldly Temptation that is everywhere.

    Psalms 23:1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

    He is our shepherd after we are saved and Jesus made it clear what is required for us to receive our salvation.

    2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

    Once we are saved, the world no longer holds the power over us that it once did. The Grace and peace that this verse is referring to comes after we are reborn in the Spirit. It is unattainable on our own.

    3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

    Speaking from personal experience, my troubled Soul was restored after I was truly reborn and baptised in the spirit, not when I was water baptised, 40 years earlier. Why there is a difference, I can not say, I just know when I was truly reborn, and that was when my old Man died and my New man emerged from the grave where my Old man was laid to rest.

    How does He lead me in the paths of righteousness for His mane's sakes after our rebirth in the Spirit? The verse makes it clear that He does, and Jesus confirms it in Matthew 6:13 "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:"
    So there must be a way. This is where most people falter due to a lack of understanding as the Parable of the seeds points out.
    Have you ever asked yourself how does the Holy Spirit lead us not into temptation? When you are tempted to sin, what happens? Your conscience lets you know that it is wrong "if" you are attuned to it and "if" you have not progressively hidden everything you do from the guilt that you should receive from it whenever you do commit a sin. Again, I know what I am talking about here and others do too, if they take a long hard look at their past where the commision of sin was/is concerned.
    The trap for the lost is that they have been so successful at hiding from their conscience whenever they do things that they want to do, but need a way to avoid a guilty conscience afterwards, they become blind to the guidance that they once received from it as it shed the light of truth on what they were doing. Their conscience is not clear. Jesus referred to it this way;
    John 3: 19 And this is the condemnation, that [the] light [of truth] is come into the world, and men loved darkness [the absence of a guilty conscience] rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    Sound familiar?
    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    Reproved? What is the definition of reproved? According to Random House; 1. scold, reprimand, upbraid, chide, reprehend, admonish.

    Sounds like a guilty conscience to me, how about you?
    So the light of truth through a clear conscience, lets us know when we are doing something bad and punishes us when we do, unless we decide to hide what we do from it.
    But once we are saved, and we do the right thing, how do we know?

    21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

    Our clear conscience is just as capable of rewarding us with good feelings as it is at punishing our bad behavior.
    The Human body is the most complex organism ever created...every part of it has a very specific function and nothing that was needed was excluded and nothing that was not necessary was included, so why would God create within us a conscience that does everything that the Bible says the Holy Spirit will do for those who walk with a clear conscience which has been purged of all out past accumulated guilt, if it were not a vital part of how the Holy Spirit communicates Gods's laws and guidance to us? The answer is, "He would not." The guidance and comfort that we receive from the Holy Spirit through our cleared conscience can be described like this;
    John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
    The Holy Spirit doesn't speak to us in any language known to man, His voice is like the wind, we feel it and preceive it but we can not put our hands on it, if have cleared our conscience of the past guilt that we spent a lifetime avoiding by excusing it all away.
    To repent is to admit that we will not do something any longer and that we understand that it was wrong. Accepting internal excuses in order to avoid a guilty conscience after we commit a sin is wrong and the baptised in the Spirit-New man, knows this and will not go back to that former sinful, worldly way of living.

    4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

    The Holy Spirit is always there to guide us from making bad decisions and He also prompts us to do good things "if" we keep our conscience clear and "if" we do not return to our old ways of applying excuses to sinful behavior in order to justify away the guilt that we know we would otherwise receive from our conscience.
    "...thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. " How can a rod comfort us? A child might not agree when we use it on them whenever they do something bad, but the result is that they stop doing what they were doing and they understand that we do it out of our love and concern for them. God does the same thing whenever a Christian does something they should not do...and they will. The consequence of living with a clear conscience is that whenever we do something wrong and we refuse to apply an internal excuse to it, we will get a guilty conscience afterwards. This is the Holy Spirits way of chastising the saved. I welcome a guilty conscience when I do wrong because it lets me know that the Holy Spirit is watching and guiding me.
    5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

    In verse 6, He says, "Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life:"
    All the days of my life, both in this world and the next.

    Eternal death as referred to in the Scrpitures, is not the death of our physical body, it is the death of our Soul. The life that Salvation brings is the survival of our Soul after we experience the physical death that all must undergo. For those who chose to walk through this Valley of the Shadow of Death alone and without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, their life will be short indeed and their death eternal.

    God Bless you,

    Michael

  • #2
    Alright Michael... start it fresh. You might send God's Girl a PM and let her know about the thread although were I a betting man... I figure she'll key in right on the thing with the title of the thread!


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    • #3
      Great post/thread, Michael K - here's a couple of verses that make the truth of what you say crystal clear:-

      "For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink." 1 Cor 12:13 NIV

      Now - can someone be a Christian and not be in the body of Christ? Of course not!

      Can someone be a Christian and not have drunk of the one Spirit? It means the same as coming to Christ:-

      "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water" Jn 7:37b-38 NKJV

      Again, of course not! Look at this passage too:-

      "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him." Rom 6:3-9 NKJV

      This passage in Romans makes it abundantly clear that the baptism spoken of unites us to Christ and results in our old man actually being crucified by that baptism - it therefore cannot be water baptism (which symbolises our union with Christ), so it must therefore be baptism in the Spirit, as in the 1 Cor 12:13 passage - baptising us into Christ and His body!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
        Alright Michael... start it fresh. You might send God's Girl a PM and let her know about the thread although were I a betting man... I figure she'll key in right on the thing with the title of the thread!


        I think that a large part of the problem stems from the usage of words rather than a difference in theology...

        I agree that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is that by which we are born again alive unto God. The "Mechanism" if you will, and therefore is not a "secondary" work of Grace. John 3:5-6 says: "Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

        Without going into a treatise of all the shades of meaning of Baptize/Baptism etc. in Greek...One of the "shades" of meaning can be expressed as (very roughly) "having one's identity defined in or by God", or "being washed/regenerated/etc." by God (c.f. 2 Cor 5:17).

        The "Filling" of the Holy Spirit however, is something that comes and goes; because our own will comes into play...that is to say, one must seek to be filled with the Spirit. For example: Paul in writing to assembly of born-again believers at Ephesus writes: "And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit..." (Eph 5:18 NKJV).

        I would say IMO, that the problem then is a definition of terms....But again, JMO
        Ιησούς Χριστός ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου



        ****When the Lord opens a door, don't walk through it....run full speed; if it's the wrong one He'll let ya know...sometimes He just wants to see if you'll move at all!****


        A Minister of God Ministry - Support and understanding for a Christian serving in the military

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        • #5
          Godsgirl wrote:[Theologians often confuse the baptism in the Holy Spirit with salvation. They often regard these two experiences as being the same. This confuses believers. They incorrectly assume that salvation is the same as the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The Bible does not teach this.]

          She is correct.
          Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

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          • #6
            John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

            My vote goes literal interpretation ... again. I think for salvation you must be born again. You cannot be saved if you are not born again (of the spirit this time) and you cannot be born again unless you are saved so they must happen together.

            I agree it is a play on words to cofuse being "filled with the spirit" and "born of the spirit". These are two different things. I am an American but sometimes I am not as patriotic as others (a bad example probably)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
              ..."Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him." Rom 6:3-9 NKJV

              This passage in Romans makes it abundantly clear that the baptism spoken of unites us to Christ and results in our old man actually being crucified by that baptism - it therefore cannot be water baptism (which symbolises our union with Christ), so it must therefore be baptism in the Spirit, as in the 1 Cor 12:13 passage - baptising us into Christ and His body!
              Peter tells us (1 Peter 3:21) that Christian baptism is “the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”. The passage above in Romans 6 is a description of immersion in water (baptism) which points to the salvation we have by and through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross – thus believers are “baptized into His death”. Further, those immersed believers rise up out of the “watery grave of baptism” so they “should walk in newness of life”. Why? Because they have experienced the “new birth” - the birth "of water and the Spirit". The old man has died to self and is buried in water and the new man is born as he rises up out of the water. It is through the operation of the Holy Spirit that our sins are washed away by the blood of Christ – the blood that He shed “in His death” – the death we are “baptized into” – “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death.”
              And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (Acts 22:16)

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              • #8
                Wow! Sorry, no prize. Play on words all you want-but the Bible makes it plain that Being baptised IN the Spirit is a different thing than being baptised BY the Spirit--
                For by one Spirit we were all baptised into one body---the Holy Spirit does the baptising-the body of Christ is what we're baptised into. At the moment of salvation-the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us and places us into the Body of Christ.

                Jesus is our baptiser in the Spirit-Promised from the Father and given to the church for the first time at the Day of Pentecost-and yes, given to those who were already Christians--case in point--Acts chapter 19--and Acts Chapter 8.

                So being born of the Spirit is seperate and distinct from being filled (baptised in the Spirit)
                . Jesus' ministry had two distinct goals.
                1. To take away sin = regeneration, being born again. Jn 1:29, “Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”.
                2. To baptise in the Holy Spirit. Jn 1:33 “…this is He who baptises with the Holy Spirit”.
                2. The Disciples received two distinct and separate workings of the Holy Spirit.
                1. After Christ's Resurrection. John 20:22, “He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit”. This is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that every believer receives at salvation.
                2. At Pentecost. (An experience subsequent to regeneration.)
                  Acts 2:4, “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance”. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.
                  Jesus made reference in Acts 1:5 that what they received in John 20:22 wasn't the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That would occur a few days later. What is clear however is that they were already saved.
                  1. They belonged to God, Jn 17:9-10.
                  2. Their names were written in heaven, Luke 10:20.
                  3. They had eternal life, Jn 10:27-29.
                3. The Samaritans also had two distinct experiences.
                  1. They were saved and baptised in water under Philip's ministry, Acts 8:5-13.
                  2. They were baptised in the Holy Spirit under Peter and John's ministry some time later.
                    (Acts 8:14-17).
                II DEFINITION

                The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is an experience that can only happen to a Christian. It is the Holy Spirit coming upon believers and filling them in order to energise and empower them for service.

                This experience is also referred to in the New Testament as:
                1. Falling of the Holy Spirit - Acts 8:16, 10:44, 11:15.
                2. Filling of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:4, 4:8,31; 6:3,5; 7:55; 9:17; 11:24; 13:9.
                3. Coming upon, Acts 1:8; 19:6.
                4. Poured out upon, Acts 10:45.
                5. Receiving the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38; 8:15,17; 8:19; 10:48; 19:2.
                6. Gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38, 8:20, 10:15.
                7. Baptised in the Holy Spirit, Acts 1:5; 11:16; Matt 3:11; Mk 1:8; Lk 3:16.
                8. The promise of the Father, Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4, 2:33, 2:29.
                9. Giving of the Holy Spirit, Luke 11:13, Acts 5:32, 8:18, 15:8.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
                  Wow! Sorry, no prize. Play on words all you want-but the Bible makes it plain that Being baptised IN the Spirit is a different thing than being baptised BY the Spirit--
                  John 3:34
                  …for God gives the spirit without limit.


                  Filled ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fl)
                  1. To put into (a container, for example) as much as can be held:
                  2. To supply or provide to the fullest extent:
                  Bap·tized ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bp-tz, bptz)
                  1. To admit into Christianity by means of baptism.
                  1. To cleanse or purify.
                  2. To initiate.
                  Re·ceive( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-sv)
                  1. To take or acquire (something given, offered, or transmitted); get.
                  2. To take in, hold, or contain:
                  3. To admit:


                  Acts 1:5
                  For John baptized with[ 1:5 Or in] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."



                  Here is a few days later......

                  Acts 2:1
                  When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.



                  here it is....just as promised in Acts 1:5

                  Acts 2:4
                  All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit......

                  Acts 11:15
                  "As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.


                  Acts 11:16
                  Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'

                  Acts 1:5 points forward to acts 2:4 ....and Acts 11:15-16 point back to acts 2:4



                  There is no mistake in understanding the simplicity of the words. He said they would be baptized by the spirit in a few days....and when that day came the word used was filled. One and the same.
                  Titus 3:5
                  …..He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,


                  Revelation 3:3
                  .....If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
                    Wow! Sorry, no prize. Play on words all you want-but the Bible makes it plain that Being baptised IN the Spirit is a different thing than being baptised BY the Spirit--
                    Actually, it does not...the problem is with terminology, as you yourself point out in the rest of your post.

                    For by one Spirit we were all baptised into one body---the Holy Spirit does the baptising-the body of Christ is what we're baptised into. At the moment of salvation-the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us and places us into the Body of Christ.
                    So far so good...we are in 100% agreement!

                    Jesus is our baptiser in the Spirit-Promised from the Father and given to the church for the first time at the Day of Pentecost-and yes, given to those who were already Christians--case in point--Acts chapter 19--and Acts Chapter 8.

                    Here is where we start having problems with terminology...In both Acts Chapter 8 and 19 Baptism refers to a positional change in the former, and a preparatory Change in the latter.

                    Acts 8:16: "For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of Jesus" I think we can agree here that they were already saved (as you mentioned above).

                    Acts 8:17 continues: "Then they laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit" Neither the English translation nor the underlying Greek text mentions or even alludes to "Baptism".

                    In Acts 19:3: "And he said to them, 'into what were you baptized?' So they said, 'Into John's Baptism'". John's Baptism was two fold if you remember: 1. A baptism of repentance in anticipation of Messiah, and 2. That Jesus would be revealed to Israel (Matt 3:11 & John 1:31)

                    Acts 19:5 continues: "When they heard this they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus." Positional change here...born again and placed in Christ.

                    Acts 19:6 picks up: "And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied". Once again neither the English translation nor the underlying Greek text indicates anything to do with "Baptism".

                    So being born of the Spirit is seperate and distinct from being filled (baptised in the Spirit)
                    But yet you said:

                    For by one Spirit we were all baptised into one body---the Holy Spirit does the baptising-the body of Christ is what we're baptised into. At the moment of salvation-the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us and places us into the Body of Christ.
                    Your own words here, see the conflict?

                    . Jesus' ministry had two distinct goals.
                    1. To take away sin = regeneration, being born again. Jn 1:29, “Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world”.
                    2. To baptise in the Holy Spirit. Jn 1:33 “…this is He who baptises with the Holy Spirit”.
                    Respectfully, these are not two distinct goals...John 3:14-18 states Christ's goals quite succinctly, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what causes one to be born again..a point that you have already agreed upon.

                    2. The Disciples received two distinct and separate workings of the Holy Spirit.
                    1. After Christ's Resurrection. John 20:22, “He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit”. This is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that every believer receives at salvation.
                    2. At Pentecost. (An experience subsequent to regeneration.)
                      Acts 2:4, “And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance”. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.
                      Jesus made reference in Acts 1:5 that what they received in John 20:22 wasn't the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. That would occur a few days later. What is clear however is that they were already saved.
                      1. They belonged to God, Jn 17:9-10.
                      2. Their names were written in heaven, Luke 10:20.
                      3. They had eternal life, Jn 10:27-29.
                    Once again, "Received", Filled with", "came upon" are all different than "Baptism" in the text.

                    3. The Samaritans also had two distinct experiences.


                    They were saved and baptised in water under Philip's ministry, Acts 8:5-13.

                    True, that's what the text says


                    They were baptised in the Holy Spirit under Peter and John's ministry some time later.

                    Once again the Text does not used the word "Baptized"

                    If you want to call the filling of the Holy Spirit "Baptized", I really could care less...But at least let us be cognizant of the fact that the text in English/Spanish/German or Greek does not support such an interpretation...
                    Ιησούς Χριστός ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου



                    ****When the Lord opens a door, don't walk through it....run full speed; if it's the wrong one He'll let ya know...sometimes He just wants to see if you'll move at all!****


                    A Minister of God Ministry - Support and understanding for a Christian serving in the military

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mcgyver View Post
                      Actually, it does not...the problem is with terminology, as you yourself point out in the rest of your post . . . If you want to call the filling of the Holy Spirit "Baptized", I really could care less...But at least let us be cognizant of the fact that the text in English/Spanish/German or Greek does not support such an interpretation...
                      I agree with mcgyver.

                      As I read this thread, I don't see much theological difference as I do semantical differences.

                      I spiritually grew up in Calvary Chapels (CC). Chuck Smith, the founder of CC, has always taught baptism as a separate event from salvation. As I study the Scripture, I've come to disagree with Chuck's terminology and believe that taught properly, the Scripture claims we are baptized in the Holy Spirit at salvation but are continually needing to be filled with the Spirit (Ephesians 5:18).

                      That being said, I think Chuck said it well at a pastors' conference I was at several years ago when he said (I'm quoting from memory)
                      Baptized in the Holy Spirit . . . filled with the Holy Spirit . . . I don't care what you call it. The important thing is do you have it?
                      Well said, in my opinion.

                      Grace & peace,

                      Joe

                      In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

                      Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

                      If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

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                      • #12
                        "Baptized in the Holy Spirit . . . filled with the Holy Spirit . . . I don't care what you call it. The important thing is do you have it?"

                        Definition....The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is an experience that can only happen to a Christian. It is the Holy Spirit coming upon believers and filling them in order to energise and empower them for service.


                        Amen. Jesus called this a "baptism" , so that's why I did, but this same teaching is given different terminology in the Word, He called it "the promise of the Father" also.

                        This experience is also referred to in the New Testament as:
                        1. Falling of the Holy Spirit - Acts 8:16, 10:44, 11:15.
                        2. Filling of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:4, 4:8,31; 6:3,5; 7:55; 9:17; 11:24; 13:9.
                        3. Coming upon, Acts 1:8; 19:6.
                        4. Poured out upon, Acts 10:45.
                        5. Receiving the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38; 8:15,17; 8:19; 10:48; 19:2.
                        6. Gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38, 8:20, 10:15.
                        7. Baptised in the Holy Spirit, Acts 1:5; 11:16; Matt 3:11; Mk 1:8; Lk 3:16.
                        8. The promise of the Father, Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4, 2:33, 2:29.
                        9. Giving of the Holy Spirit, Luke 11:13, Acts 5:32, 8:18, 15:8.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by menJesus View Post
                          Godsgirl wrote:[Theologians often confuse the baptism in the Holy Spirit with salvation. They often regard these two experiences as being the same. This confuses believers. They incorrectly assume that salvation is the same as the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The Bible does not teach this.]

                          She is correct.
                          Definately.
                          Jesus' disciples, those He walked this earth with, and those He designated Apostles, were presumably Saved because Jesus 'breathed on them, and said 'receive the Holy Spirit' (John 20:22); and they all, without exception, needed to be Baptised in and by the Holy Spirit.

                          and before I was able to fulfill all the tasks the Lord prepared me for, so did I. (and so do you . . . .)

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                          • #14
                            We are filled with the Holy Spirit when we repent and are saved.

                            We are baptised in the Holy Spirit for the works we will do through Him.

                            Once we receive the baptism, we are annointed to do His works.
                            Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

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                            • #15
                              Baptism...Filling...I guess we can make these terms a point of division if we want to...But WHY should/would we want to?????

                              The only reason I replied in the first place was because of the broad statement:

                              Theologians often confuse the baptism in the Holy Spirit with salvation. They often regard these two experiences as being the same. This confuses believers. They incorrectly assume that salvation is the same as the baptism in the Holy Spirit. The Bible does not teach this.
                              We've got to be careful in making such broad and sweeping statements...

                              The semantics are different, the theology is the same.

                              Incidentally, for the first 1950 some odd years of church history; there was no problem with the semantics of it...nor is there a problem with semantics in the Greek underlying texts...

                              Can we agree that at least the theology is the same?
                              Ιησούς Χριστός ο κυριος μου και ο θεος μου



                              ****When the Lord opens a door, don't walk through it....run full speed; if it's the wrong one He'll let ya know...sometimes He just wants to see if you'll move at all!****


                              A Minister of God Ministry - Support and understanding for a Christian serving in the military

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