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  • Is There A Rapture?

    I've always believed in the rapture of the church and have looked forward to it but all these opinions and theories are just confusing me. Some say there's a pre-trib rapture, a halfway trib rapture and a post trib rapture and still others say there's no rapture at all. Is there biblical evidence that there is gonna be a rapture? I'm so confused help me out here.

  • #2
    By and large, I think "no rapture" and post-trib rapture are the same thing. As is "rapture" and pre-trib rapture. It's just people's different way of saying things.

    That's where it gets confusing. I can say, "there is no rapture," which inevitably will prompt somebody to point out the scriptures which clearly say there indeed is a rapture. Which, in turn, then leads one to incorrectly assume there must be a pre-trib rapture. Proving there's a rapture does not prove that the rapture is pre-trib.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Vivi View Post
      I've always believed in the rapture of the church and have looked forward to it but all these opinions and theories are just confusing me. Some say there's a pre-trib rapture, a halfway trib rapture and a post trib rapture and still others say there's no rapture at all. Is there biblical evidence that there is gonna be a rapture? I'm so confused help me out here.
      Yes, Vivi, there is a rapture. The KJB calls it 'caught up' 1Thess.4:13-18, and 'twinkling of an eye' in 1Co.15:52.

      You'll get a number of opinions, so here's mine. I believe we are 'caught up' immediately after the resurrection of the dead in Rev.11:12 and as the seventh trump is sounded in Rev.11:15.

      Keep reading and searching, and in time you'll be able to make a decission of your own.

      Have fun in the forum, enjoy yourself, ask questions. We do a lot of disagreeing with one another, but we learn by challenging each other.

      And, welcome...

      seeker

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Vivi View Post
        I've always believed in the rapture of the church and have looked forward to it but all these opinions and theories are just confusing me. Some say there's a pre-trib rapture, a halfway trib rapture and a post trib rapture and still others say there's no rapture at all. Is there biblical evidence that there is gonna be a rapture? I'm so confused help me out here.
        According to scripture what is known as the rapture takes place at the return of Christ;

        1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
        1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
        1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

        Jesus said this will be after the tribulation;

        Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
        Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power And great glory.
        Mt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, And they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

        Comment


        • #5
          There,

          Is a 'catching up' of the saints, after those who are dead in Christ are raised. And all this occurs at the 7th trumpet, at the return of Christ, at the end of the 70th week, the end of the 7 years.

          So, I is not any 'pre-trib' 'rapture' occuring at the beginning of the 70th week. Any other words, Christ returns 'once', and that at the end of the 70th week.

          2Witnesses

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          • #6
            Yes it is confusing, or at least appears to be.

            Drop all , and listen to Jesus, thats the answer right?

            He said , I will come back and recieve you to myself, I mean he was the author.

            We are meant to look forward to the promise that he made.
            By Jesus own definition, we would be recieved by him when he comes, and this is the gathering to him....some call it rapture.
            Keep listening to Jesus and he says that after the trib of those days he would come.
            To wrap it all up , he assured us that he had told us all things , before he comes.

            This is why Paul in 1Thess 4 tells us that he speaks according to the word of the lord, and in 1thess 5, that we have no need for anything to be written to us..............because we should be listening to his own discourse on his own promise.

            Read through these scriptures

            "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.
            2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
            3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also
            "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
            28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
            29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
            30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
            31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

            Behold, I have told you in advance.
            26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
            27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
            For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
            16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
            17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
            Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you.
            And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jeffweeder View Post
              Yes it is confusing, or at least appears to be.

              Drop all , and listen to Jesus, thats the answer right?

              He said , I will come back and recieve you to myself, I mean he was the author.

              We are meant to look forward to the promise that he made.
              By Jesus own definition, we would be recieved by him when he comes, and this is the gathering to him....some call it rapture.
              Keep listening to Jesus and he says that after the trib of those days he would come.
              To wrap it all up , he assured us that he had told us all things , before he comes.

              This is why Paul in 1Thess 4 tells us that he speaks according to the word of the lord, and in 1thess 5, that we have no need for anything to be written to us..............because we should be listening to his own discourse on his own promise.

              Read through these scriptures
              Yes and Jesus said the following;

              Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
              Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power And great glory.
              Mt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, And they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

              So in order not to contradict the words of Christ, believe him and his words.

              1 Tim 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

              2 Pet 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

              Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

              Comment


              • #8
                I think its very confusing. I know there is scripture presented that says there is a rapture but im still not convinced.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think its very confusing. I know there is scripture presented that says there is a rapture but im still not convinced.
                  Well there is because we rise to meet him in the air--this is rapture.
                  Its just the timing of that event that is confusing...but Jesus makes it clear I think.
                  And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    THE RAPTURE AND THE 2nd COMING OF CHRIST

                    • RAPTURE PASSAGES (Before the Great Tribulation)

                    For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the manifestation of the sons of God. (Rom 8:19)

                    When Christ our Life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. (Col 3:4)

                    and to wait for His Son from Heaven (whom He raised from the dead), Jesus, who delivered us from the wrath to come. (1Th 1:10) [Rapture before the Tribulation]

                    For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him all those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. (1Th 4:14)

                    For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep. (1Th 4:15)

                    For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. (1Th 4:16)

                    Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up [G726: catch away (rapture): plugged, pulled, take] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord. (1Th 4:17)

                    But that which you have, hold fast until I come. (Rev 2:25)

                    • 2nd COMING PASSAGES (After the Great Tribulation)
                    And in the days of these kings, the God of Heaven shall set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed. And the kingdom shall not be left to other peoples, but it shall crush and destroy all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. (Dan 2:44)

                    And at that time Michael shall stand up, the great ruler who stands for the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation; until that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1)

                    Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand). (Mat 24:15)
                    for then shall be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be. (Mat 24:21)
                    And unless those days should be shortened, no flesh would be saved. But for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened. (Mat 24:22)
                    For as the lightning comes out of the east and shines even to the west, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man. (Mat 24:27)

                    and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man {Christ} coming in the clouds of heaven with power and with great glory. (Matt 24:30, KJV)

                    Now the prophecy primarily respects the events near at hand - the destruction of Jerusalem, the period of the Jewish church and state, the calling of the Gentiles, and the setting up of Christ's kingdom in the world; (Matt 24:30, Matthew Henry Commentary)

                    The second coming of Christ to earth in fulfillment of Old Testament prediction (cf. Dan 7:13) will be seen by all kindreds of the earth at the time, Israel and the nations. (Revelation 1:7, 21st Century KJV)

                    And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Rev 19:14)
                    And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. (Rev 19:16)
                    And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth and their armies, being gathered to make war against Him who sat on the horse, and against His army. (Rev 19:19)
                    And the rest were slain by the sword of Him who sat on the horse, it proceeding out of His mouth. And all the birds were filled from their flesh. (Rev 19:21)

                    my God; in Him I will trust (Psa 91:2).

                    If you have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior, NOW is the time.

                    Persevere, pray and be ready for the Return of Christ.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JMN View Post
                      I think its very confusing. I know there is scripture presented that says there is a rapture but im still not convinced.
                      Although the word rapture is not in the bible, however there are scriptures used for what is called the rapture.

                      1 Corinthians 15
                      51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
                      52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

                      1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
                      1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
                      1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

                      Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
                      Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power And great glory.
                      Mt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, And they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The below comment inserts ("Before the Great Tribulation"); however those verses themselves, do not make that insertion.

                        Originally posted by Roelof View Post
                        THE RAPTURE AND THE 2nd COMING OF CHRIST
                        • RAPTURE PASSAGES (Before the Great Tribulation)
                        For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the manifestation of the sons of God. (Rom 8:19)
                        Nothing in Romans 8 mentions the manifestation of the sons of God occuring "before the tribulation". The context actually, gives the opposite expectation. The context of when 'the manifestation of the sons of God' will occur at the same time that the Creation itsself is redeemed from the bondage of corruption.

                        Romans 8:21 "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

                        To believe that the creature and the creation will be delivered from the bondage of corruption; and creation cease in its groaning and travailing is hardly a 'before the great tribulation' expectation.




                        Originally posted by Roelof View Post
                        When Christ our Life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. (Col 3:4)
                        This verse likewise, doesn't give any context of being "before the great tribulation".

                        What context with other verses that speak of the future appearing of Christ; Titus 2's Glorious Appearing, 2 Thessalonians 2's Appearing, 2 Timothy 4's Appearing; the context again is more fitting of the 2nd Coming of Christ; not a separate coming before that.

                        Originally posted by Roelof View Post
                        and to wait for His Son from Heaven (whom He raised from the dead), Jesus, who delivered us from the wrath to come. (1Th 1:10) [Rapture before the Tribulation]
                        Nothing in that verse mentions a rapture before the tribulation.
                        However, we do know from other passages that Jesus comes from Heaven 'after the great tribulation' (Matthew 24:29-30, Mark 13:26)




                        Originally posted by Roelof View Post
                        For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will also bring with Him all those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. (1Th 4:14)

                        For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep. (1Th 4:15)

                        For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. (1Th 4:16)
                        Interesting that the OP states this is not a 2nd Coming verse; when nothing in this verse mentions a rapture 'before the great tribulation'; and this verse 15 explicitily states it is at the Coming of the Lord.

                        Originally posted by Roelof View Post
                        But that which you have, hold fast until I come. (Rev 2:25)
                        The context of the Coming of the Lord in Revelation, is never mentioned to be before the great tribulation. Revelation's entire theme, is the anticipate of His great Return and Revelation from Heaven.

                        Chapter 19 best describes His return from Heaven....that is what Christians await.
                        Revelation mentions no coming of Christ before the Great Tribulation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                          The below comment inserts ("Before the Great Tribulation"); however those verses themselves, do not make that insertion.


                          Nothing in Romans 8 mentions the manifestation of the sons of God occuring "before the tribulation". The context actually, gives the opposite expectation. The context of when 'the manifestation of the sons of God' will occur at the same time that the Creation itsself is redeemed from the bondage of corruption.

                          Romans 8:21 "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

                          To believe that the creature and the creation will be delivered from the bondage of corruption; and creation cease in its groaning and travailing is hardly a 'before the great tribulation' expectation.





                          This verse likewise, doesn't give any context of being "before the great tribulation".

                          What context with other verses that speak of the future appearing of Christ; Titus 2's Glorious Appearing, 2 Thessalonians 2's Appearing, 2 Timothy 4's Appearing; the context again is more fitting of the 2nd Coming of Christ; not a separate coming before that.


                          Nothing in that verse mentions a rapture before the tribulation.
                          However, we do know from other passages that Jesus comes from Heaven 'after the great tribulation' (Matthew 24:29-30, Mark 13:26)





                          Interesting that the OP states this is not a 2nd Coming verse; when nothing in this verse mentions a rapture 'before the great tribulation'; and this verse 15 explicitily states it is at the Coming of the Lord.


                          The context of the Coming of the Lord in Revelation, is never mentioned to be before the great tribulation. Revelation's entire theme, is the anticipate of His great Return and Revelation from Heaven.

                          Chapter 19 best describes His return from Heaven....that is what Christians await.
                          Revelation mentions no coming of Christ before the Great Tribulation.
                          From what you have said regarding Rev.19 it is also the same scripture that states that the beast and the false prophet will be here at his return, this puts their reign before the tribulation right up to Christs return.

                          Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
                          Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

                          This cannot be a past event, since jesu does not return until the 7th trumpet, just after the gathering at Armageddon.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Firstfruits View Post
                            right up to Christs return.

                            Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
                            Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

                            This cannot be a past event, since jesu does not return until the 7th trumpet, just after the gathering at Armageddon.

                            I don't think this is a past event. Only Full-Preterists would typically teach that this is a past event; and advancing Full-Preterism is against forum rules.

                            I believe the Revelation 19 Return of Christ is very much future. All the wicked will be destroyed and cast into the fire when Christ returns; to make the creation perfect, and to release it from the bondage and curse of sin and death.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                              I don't think this is a past event. Only Full-Preterists would typically teach that this is a past event; and advancing Full-Preterism is against forum rules.

                              I believe the Revelation 19 Return of Christ is very much future. All the wicked will be destroyed and cast into the fire when Christ returns; to make the creation perfect, and to release it from the bondage and curse of sin and death.
                              So the beast and the false prophet must also be future, when they are cast alive into the fire,according to Revelation 19.

                              This also shows that the beast antichrist complete all that is written they will do before Jesus returns, since when he does return they are destroyed. That is when the rapture occures at his return.

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