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What would a Christian be without love?

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  • What would a Christian be without love?

    A monster indeed!


  • #2
    Originally posted by cchandrus View Post
    A monster indeed!

    How does one achieve this love of others?


    Visit our new website
    ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

    A.W. Tozer said,
    "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

    GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

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    • #3
      What would a Christian be without love?

      Probably not a Christian . . .
      "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

      -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
        Probably not a Christian . . .
        Now that's an interesting outlook. Do you honestly believe that a person gets born again today and then lives agape love afterward from that day on?

        Not picking on you but driving to a point because I think this has become one of the most discouraging teachings in the church today because it ultimately sets folks up for failure. That's why I asked... how does one love like Scripture speaks of?


        Visit our new website
        ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

        A.W. Tozer said,
        "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

        GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
          Now that's an interesting outlook. Do you honestly believe that a person gets born again today and then lives agape love afterward from that day on?

          Not picking on you but driving to a point because I think this has become one of the most discouraging teachings in the church today because it ultimately sets folks up for failure. That's why I asked... how does one love like Scripture speaks of?
          God is love, correct? A person without God is not a Christian. Now, you may not walk in love, but if you are Christian it should still definitely be there. If you don't have it in there, you just don't have God. Those young Christians just don't fully understand yet how to walk in that all the time. That doesn't mean it isn't there, though.
          "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

          -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
            God is love, correct? A person without God is not a Christian. Now, you may not walk in love, but if you are Christian it should still definitely be there. If you don't have it in there, you just don't have God. Those young Christians just don't fully understand yet how to walk in that all the time. That doesn't mean it isn't there, though.
            Okay... you lost me there.


            Visit our new website
            ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

            A.W. Tozer said,
            "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

            GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
              How does one achieve this love of others?
              By understanding Agape love....

              "For God so loved (agape) the world....."

              God loved everyone and died for the sins of the whole world, even when He knew many would reject that love.

              Agape love is not romantic (eros) or brotherly (phileo). It is an unconditional love that is not necessarily based on feelings. We are commanded to love our neighbor - therefore we love our neighbor, whether we feel like it or not. We put our feelings to the side for the sake of others.

              Comment


              • #8
                Is there such a thing?
                I'm Sara
                "Jesus wept." John 11:35
                Praying for my sister Mieke.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                  Okay... you lost me there.
                  Are we not indwelt by God's presence? If yes, then we are not "without love". The reason many do not walk in love is because they are not crucifying the flesh and walking by the inward man. However, that doesn't then mean that the inward man isn't there if someone isn't walking in love.

                  Actually, in contrast to your initial response to my first post, I think it's this sort of mindset that is most defeating to new Christians. The mindset that just because someone isn't walking in love it means that love isn't there is not biblically accurate and I believe it causes a believer to not fully understand what Jesus has done within them and how they have everything they need within them in God's Spirit to overcome all things of the flesh.
                  "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                  -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sold Out View Post
                    By understanding Agape love....

                    "For God so loved (agape) the world....."

                    God loved everyone and died for the sins of the whole world, even when He knew many would reject that love.

                    Agape love is not romantic (eros) or brotherly (phileo). It is an unconditional love that is not necessarily based on feelings. We are commanded to love our neighbor - therefore we love our neighbor, whether we feel like it or not. We put our feelings to the side for the sake of others.
                    All of that is great stuff. But then when does a person all the sudden experience this agape putout?


                    Visit our new website
                    ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                    A.W. Tozer said,
                    "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                    GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
                      Are we not indwelt by God's presence? If yes, then we are not "without love".
                      Sure... but then a person can love another person and that loved person is not without love in that regard. But that doesn't mean they love back... or love anyone else as a result of that love.

                      The reason many do not walk in love is because they are not crucifying the flesh and walking by the inward man. However, that doesn't then mean that the inward man isn't there if someone isn't walking in love.
                      Why doesn't it mean that? I mean think of it this way. If you were talking to a brand new Christian and they asked... how do I love others? This is what you would tell them?

                      Actually, in contrast to your initial response to my first post, I think it's this sort of mindset that is most defeating to new Christians. The mindset that just because someone isn't walking in love it means that love isn't there is not biblically accurate and I believe it causes a believer to not fully understand what Jesus has done within them and how they have everything they need within them in God's Spirit to overcome all things of the flesh.
                      Well here's where I see the problem and this is a good example. Paul tells us to pursue love... and yet you're saying to folks that they don't have to pursue it... it's already there. I don't buy that at all nor does Scripture teach that. Basically this is the sort of religious speak sort of thing that we've fallen into. Not harping on you either here because it is common and even I used to say that sort of thing too. It wasn't until I realized you know... this stuff ain't helping anyone... that I began to look closely at what I was saying.


                      Visit our new website
                      ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                      A.W. Tozer said,
                      "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                      GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                        Paul tells us to pursue love...
                        How would you say a person should pursue it?
                        "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                        -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If you were talking to a brand new Christian and they asked... how do I love others?
                          The New Testament defines agape love by pointing us to Jesus Christ (I Jn 3:16). To love someone is treat them like Jesus has treated you -- dying for you while you were yet a sinner. This is a realm of love that did not have a direct and immediate personal benefit.Agape is love which is of and from God, whose very nature is love itself. The Apostle John affirms this in 1 John 4:8: “God is love.”

                          Live in love, as Christ loved you and gave his life for you (Eph 5:1-2).

                          If we are to love as God loves, that love – that agape – can only come from its true Source. This is the love which “has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit given to us” when we became His children (Romans 5:5). Because that love is now in our hearts, we can obey Jesus who said, “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another.

                          Only God can generate within us the kind of self-sacrificing love which is the proof that we are His children. “By this we have known the love of God, because He laid down His life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers” (1 John 3:16). Because of God’s love toward us, we are now able to love one another.

                          The New Testament tells us that the command to love is the greatest command, encompassing all others ( Lk 10:27; Rom. 13:8, 10; Ja 2:8). It tells us everything else in the law hangs on our fulfilling this law (Mt 22:27-40). It tells us that love is to be placed above all else (Col 3:14; I Pet 4:8). It tells us that everything we do is to be done in love (I Cor. 16:14). It tells us that nothing has any Kingdom value apart from love, however impressive things may be in and of themselves (I Cor. 13:1-3). It tells us that the only thing that ultimately matters is faith energized by love (Gal. 5:6). And it tells us that this love is to be given to all people at all times, including our enemies (Lk 6:27-35) . Indeed, Jesus makes loving our enemies the pre-condition for being considered "children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked" (Lk 6:35). We're to "be merciful as your Father in heaven is merciful" (Lk 6:36).

                          I would tell them to look at Jesus and chose to love as He did.

                          The choice itself opens up the opportunity to be able to allow the Holy Spirit to manifest this love as evidence of the Christ's presence in us.It's not possible to have this love, unless it has been"poured into us" Romans 5:5.
                          "On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand; all other ground is sinking sand, all other ground is sinking sand." —My Hope Is Built on Nothing Less, Edward Mote

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Amazedgrace21 View Post
                            The New Testament defines agape love by pointing us to Jesus Christ (I Jn 3:16). To love someone is treat them like Jesus has treated you -- dying for you while you were yet a sinner. This is a realm of love that did not have a direct and immediate personal benefit.Agape is love which is of and from God, whose very nature is love itself. The Apostle John affirms this in 1 John 4:8: “God is love.”

                            Live in love, as Christ loved you and gave his life for you (Eph 5:1-2).

                            If we are to love as God loves, that love – that agape – can only come from its true Source. This is the love which “has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit given to us” when we became His children (Romans 5:5). Because that love is now in our hearts, we can obey Jesus who said, “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another.

                            Only God can generate within us the kind of self-sacrificing love which is the proof that we are His children. “By this we have known the love of God, because He laid down His life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers” (1 John 3:16). Because of God’s love toward us, we are now able to love one another.

                            The New Testament tells us that the command to love is the greatest command, encompassing all others ( Lk 10:27; Rom. 13:8, 10; Ja 2:8). It tells us everything else in the law hangs on our fulfilling this law (Mt 22:27-40). It tells us that love is to be placed above all else (Col 3:14; I Pet 4:8). It tells us that everything we do is to be done in love (I Cor. 16:14). It tells us that nothing has any Kingdom value apart from love, however impressive things may be in and of themselves (I Cor. 13:1-3). It tells us that the only thing that ultimately matters is faith energized by love (Gal. 5:6). And it tells us that this love is to be given to all people at all times, including our enemies (Lk 6:27-35) . Indeed, Jesus makes loving our enemies the pre-condition for being considered "children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked" (Lk 6:35). We're to "be merciful as your Father in heaven is merciful" (Lk 6:36).

                            I would tell them to look at Jesus and chose to love as He did.

                            The choice itself opens up the opportunity to be able to allow the Holy Spirit to manifest this love as evidence of the Christ's presence in us.It's not possible to have this love, unless it has been"poured into us" Romans 5:5.
                            Project Peter - Here's your answer!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Why VR... glad you asked!

                              A.W. Tozer said, “To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                              Romans 6:16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
                              17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
                              18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
                              19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
                              20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
                              21 Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
                              22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
                              23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


                              NO PAIN NO GAIN

                              When we are physically out of shape and then decide that we are going to change our ways we find that in order to correct this we must endure significant pain. There is never anything easy about training in the beginning stages. However, disciplined training leads to physical agility and strength. It can even make a difference in a persons overall health. But when you get through the initial struggle and discomfort of putting your body into submission you will find that you begin to actually excel at and enjoy the physical activity. By comparison... spiritual fitness is by far more important.

                              1 Timothy 4:7 But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness;
                              8 for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
                              9 It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance.
                              10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.


                              1 Corinthians 9:24 ¶Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.

                              You must make the decision; either you will enter the race and run or you will sit on the sideline and be a mere spectator.

                              25 And everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
                              26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
                              27 but I buffet my body and make it my slave, lest possibly, after I have preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.


                              Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance, and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
                              2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


                              GOING FOR THE PRIZE WITHOUT RUNNING THE RACE


                              Scott Peck said, “There are many people who... want, and believe that it is possible to skip over the discipline, to find an easy shortcut to discipline. Often they attempt to attain it by simply imitating the superficiality of saints... Some even believe that by such imitation they have really become saints and prophets, and are unable to acknowledge that they are still children and they face the painful fact that they must start at the beginning and go through the middle.”


                              2 Peter 1:5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge;
                              6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness;
                              7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.
                              8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
                              9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
                              10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;


                              Today we try to take the new converts from faith and we tell them that now they must go out there and love everyone. We base this on the fact that Jesus said the two greatest commandments is to love God with all of your heart.... and love your neighbor as you love yourself. While this is certainly true we must understand what Peter is telling us here.

                              Faith is where it all begins. We BELIEVE in Jesus and this is the starting line. Love is the finish line.

                              When speaking of love we naturally think of 1 Corinthians 13. In this passage we can easily see that the prize is not the gifts. Paul makes this clear because he states that there will come a time when the need for the gifts will cease. But love... it will never stop. The key to all of this can be found in the first verse of the 14th chapter... “PURSUE LOVE.” That is what we are running after... the finish line. Peter clearly understood this. Faith is the start and love is the finish line.

                              Notice though that all of the other stuff in between faith and love. In between the starting line and the finish line. This is why we must train and we can clearly see that there is no shortcut between the two. You cannot love everyone until you first love your Christian brothers and sisters. You cannot love everyone until first you achieve self-control, etc.

                              This is our training ground. This is where we'll start and in the end... we will all understand the importance of following these various steps and doing so in proper order. So tomorrow we start some basic training... then on to maturity.


                              Visit our new website
                              ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                              A.W. Tozer said,
                              "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                              GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                              Comment

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