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  • Mystery Babylon the Great?

    What does everyone think about "Mystery Babylon the Great" in Revelation 17? I'm not referring necessarily to its end-time significance, as that has been addressed in another thread. We can discuss this too of course.

    But rather, what is it? Is Babylon political? Spiritual? Socio-economical?

    Personally, I think it's all three.

    How does Mystery Babylon in the book of Revelation relate to the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11?

    Any thoughts?
    Z
    "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)



  • #2
    Try reading this thread:

    http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=169166
    To This Day

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by z alan bridges View Post
      What does everyone think about "Mystery Babylon the Great" in Revelation 17? I'm not referring necessarily to its end-time significance, as that has been addressed in another thread. We can discuss this too of course.

      But rather, what is it? Is Babylon political? Spiritual? Socio-economical?

      Personally, I think it's all three.

      How does Mystery Babylon in the book of Revelation relate to the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11?

      Any thoughts?
      Z
      Its a 'mystery'.....

      I firmly believe that the Mystery Bablyon the Great..... its foundation is a spiritual belief set in 'sand'.. the belief that you can create your own 'heaven' on Earth.. its spiritual but a pseudo spiritual kingdom.. which will have its tentacles in ecomomics, and politics... it will prosper and move forward under this belief... being fueled by conterfeit signs and wonders... confirming the 'kingdom of heaven' on earth... it will be filled with those who believe they have become 'like God'.. to some point... rejecting the True Messiah and His Message and believing the 'lie'.. you will and can be 'like god'... this fueld by satans desire to be worshipped as God... and his attempt to 'conterfeit' the Coming Kingdom of Heaven.. which is prophesied as 'Returning from Heaven.. with Jesus the Christ in the Lead and His Armies and Saints following...

      if one watches TV and goes to the bookstores... one can see the foundation being set for this .. by the amount of false teaching that is being heralded as 'truth'... with many prospering from these ... false teachings and lies...

      its a dangerous time.. when one calls Truth a 'lie' and a 'lie' the Truth...

      woe unto thee.....

      how it compares to the Tower of Babel?


      those people at that time thought they could build a tower high enough to reach into Heaven... man's attempt thru his knowledge to gain access into Heaven... what did God do?

      this time.. man will actually believe he/she can create his/her own Heaven on earth... without Christ Returning...... and what does God do to this type of belief system? Revelation pretty much tells of its demise... not only the demise of this system but the anti christ and false prophet..

      Salvation belongs to God ... and He has Provided a way and its thru His Son.. God manifest in the flesh.. Jesus the Christ... the issues of Salvation Belong to Him and Him alone...

      man will try to build the kingdom of heaven on this earth thru his man centered religion and salvation.. but as Jesus Said...

      those who build on sinking sand... when the storms come.. the waves and wind.... it does not stand.... but 'sinks'.. and fails...

      where is your 'wisdom' grounded... on the Solid Rock.. Jesus the Christ.. His Person.. who is Risen from the Grave.... He who once was physically dead... but is alive forevermore....and Seated at the Right Hand of the Power of God...

      or on 'sinking sand'...
      Many appear Righteous and Just because they say 'yes' to Jesus Christ , yet they don't do His Will.
      ------------------------------------------------
      Verily I say unto thee, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the Kingdom of Heaven before you do.
      ------------------------------------------------
      The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying. YEA, I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with LOVINGKINDESS have I DRAWN THEE.
      Jeremiah 31:3

      Comment


      • #4
        Mystery, Babylon will be the city of Tyre.

        See Isaiah 23:15 and Zech. 9.
        http://prophecyinsights.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Who is Babylon?

          Originally posted by z alan bridges View Post
          What does everyone think about "Mystery Babylon the Great" in Revelation 17? I'm not referring necessarily to its end-time significance, as that has been addressed in another thread. We can discuss this too of course.

          But rather, what is it? Is Babylon political? Spiritual? Socio-economical?

          Personally, I think it's all three.

          How does Mystery Babylon in the book of Revelation relate to the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11?

          Any thoughts?
          Z
          In order to know who Babylon the Great is, you must first recognize what original Babylon was to make the correlation. And yes it does relate to the Tower of Babel.
          It was in ancient Babylon that false worship got its start. From there it spread to the four corners of the earth. Genesis 11:4-9 says:
          "They now said: “Come on! Let us build ourselves a city and also a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a celebrated name for ourselves, for fear we may be scattered over all the surface of the earth.

          And the Lord proceeded to go down to see the city and the tower that the sons of men had built. After that the Lord said: “Look! They are one people and there is one language for them all, and this is what they start to do. Why, now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be unattainable for them. Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another’s language.” Accordingly the Lord scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth, and they gradually left off building the city. That is why its name was called Ba′bel, because there the Lord had confused the language of all the earth, and the Lord had scattered them from there over all the surface of the earth."

          Since then, political empires have risen and fallen, but tainted Babylonish religion has endured and spread throughout the earth. It has taken many shapes and forms, becoming a world empire of false religion; the prophesied Babylon the Great. Even religion that claims to be Christian, but whose beliefs can be traced back to Babylon, can be included in this designation. This is why God tells his "people" to "get out of her". (Revelation 18:4, 5)
          Because of the long, long history of Babylon the Great, many people find it hard to believe that it will ever be destroyed.

          According to the Revelation, there are three elements that make up the devil's rulership of the earth; political, commercial and religious. The political and commercial elements are said to mourn the loss of Babylon the Great.
          Revelation 18:9, 10 says: "And the kings of the earth who committed fornication with her and lived in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say, ‘Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!"
          Verses 15-17 tell us: 15 “The traveling merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of [their] fear of her torment and will weep and mourn, 16 saying, ‘Too bad, too bad—the great city, clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet, and richly adorned with gold ornament and precious stone and pearl, 17 because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!"

          So it is obvious that it is the third element that is destroyed. Why? Because all religion that is outside that prescribed by God is a creation of the devil and is abhorrent to him.
          It will be the political elements who will deliver the death blow to Babylon the Great. Any who have not heeded the warning to get out of Babylon the Great will perish with her.

          Mozza

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by z alan bridges View Post
            What does everyone think about "Mystery Babylon the Great" in Revelation 17? I'm not referring necessarily to its end-time significance, as that has been addressed in another thread. We can discuss this too of course.

            But rather, what is it? Is Babylon political? Spiritual? Socio-economical?

            Personally, I think it's all three.
            I see it as the spiritual opposite to the heavenly new Jerusalem, which is the mother of all believers (Gal 4:26) and is the heavenly and spiritual dwelling place of believers. So, "Mystery Babylon" would be the mother of all unbelievers (it's even referred to as "the mother of harlots") and their spiritual dwelling place, so to speak.

            How does Mystery Babylon in the book of Revelation relate to the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11?

            Any thoughts?
            Z
            Very similar, IMO. At the tower of Babel all the people of the world were united together in defiance against God and tried to get to heaven on their own instead of God's way. That's the way it is today. People are trying to earn their way to salvation despite the fact that having faith in Christ is the only way.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by z alan bridges View Post
              What does everyone think about "Mystery Babylon the Great" in Revelation 17? I'm not referring necessarily to its end-time significance, as that has been addressed in another thread. We can discuss this too of course.

              But rather, what is it? Is Babylon political? Spiritual? Socio-economical?

              Personally, I think it's all three.

              How does Mystery Babylon in the book of Revelation relate to the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11?

              Any thoughts?
              Z

              Here are some thoughts on this . . .

              Rev 18:24
              24 “And in her (Mystery Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.”


              Ok.

              Now, does this

              (" . . . the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth . . . ")

              include Stephen the Christian martyr?

              Let's see . . .

              Acts 6:8-15
              8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.
              9 But some men from what was called the Synagogue of the Freedmen, including both Cyrenians and Alexandrians, and some from Cilicia and Asia, rose up and argued with Stephen.

              10 But they were unable to cope with the wisdom and the Spirit with which he was speaking.
              11Then they secretly induced men to say, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and
              against God.”
              12 And they stirred up the people, the elders and the scribes, and they came up to him and dragged him away and brought him before the Council.
              13 They put forward false witnesses who said, “This man incessantly speaks against this holy place and the Law;
              14 for we have heard him say that this Nazarene, Jesus, will destroy this place and alter the customs which Moses handed down to us.”
              15
              And fixing their gaze on him (Stephen), all who were sitting in the Council saw his face like the face of an angel.

              Acts 7:1-2
              1 The high priest said, “Are these things so?”
              2 And he (Stephen) said, “Hear me, brethren and fathers!


              (Stephen continues in this chapter in the preaching of a sermon apropos the history of Israel and so on . . . . let's go to verse 51 and the context . . . Stephen is still preaching . . .)

              51 “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.
              52 “Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become;
              53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it.”


              54 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him (Stephen).
              55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he (Stephen) gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;

              56 and he (Stephen) said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
              57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears and rushed at him (Stephen) with one impulse.

              58 When they had driven him (Stephen) out of the city, they began stoning him (Stephen); and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
              59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!”
              60 Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he (Stephen) fell asleep (in death).


              Acts 8:1-3
              1 Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him (Stephen) to death.
              And on that day a great persecution began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.

              2 Some devout men buried Stephen, and made loud lamentation over him.
              3 But Saul began ravaging the church, entering house after house, and dragging off men and women, he would put them in prison.


              Acts 22:17-21
              17 “It happened when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I fell into a trance,
              18 and I saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste, and get out of Jerusalem quickly, because they will not accept your testimony about Me.’
              19 “And I said, ‘Lord, they themselves understand that in one synagogue after another I used to imprison and beat those who believed in You.
              20 ‘And when the blood of Your witness Stephen was being shed, I also was standing by approving, and watching out for the coats of those who were slaying him.’

              21 “And He said to me, ‘Go! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’”


              Now, did not "Mystery Babylon" kill Stephen--by stoning him?'

              Thus, the people who killed Stephen were NOT CHRISTIANS.

              Indeed, the scriptures above show that Stephen was bold in the Lord His God to stand up to "Mystery Babylon" (the Whore) and "rebuke" her for her "crimes" and so on.

              Then, those of the "Mystery Babylon" stoned him (per Rev. 18:24).

              Now, Saul was among "the Whore" at this time--right? (See Acts 9 and 22.)

              So, what happened to Saul in Chapter 9 of Acts?

              You know the story . . .

              Saul . . . became . . . Paul--and "came out of the Whore" as a result.

              And this was all because Jesus "showed up" to vindicate His Bride "who Saul was persecuting" and so on--and this on the Damascus road (you know the story).

              Saul . . . became . . . ONE with Christ indeed--through repentance and faith in the blood shed at Calvary.

              Then, Paul (as an Apostle) became the author of 2/3rds of our New Testament (through the Holy Spirit) and wrote Ephesians 2, 3, and 4--the very chapters that affirms the ONENESS and unity of the people of God (from YHWH's view).


              So the point here seems to be this:

              1) "Mystery Babylon" is the recipient of judgment because of a lack of repentance and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and His Gospel. Thus, she ("the Whore") opposes the True Gospel (the one the apostle Paul preached) as well as the true people of God.

              2) Now, Saul was unsaved--and thus in "Mystery Babylon" and so on. Jesus challenged Saul to become Paul through repentance in faith in Christ--and "came out of Mystery Babylon" specifically because he believed in the Lord his God through Christ.

              Grace and peace,

              Billy-brown 2


              I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Interesting thoughts, Billy. I personally see a correlation between the following two passages.

                2 Cor 6
                14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
                16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
                17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

                Rev 18
                1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
                2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
                3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
                4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

                Seems to me that when God calls His people out of Babylon He is calling them out from unbelief, idol worship, worshiping false gods like Belial, and out of spiritual darkness in general. That's what Babylon seems to refer to. While the heavenly Jerusalem is the mother of all believers (Gal 4:26) it seems that Babylon is the "mother of harlots" and the mother of all unbelievers. It even says that it is "the hold of every foul spirit". It seems to be the spiritual counterpart to the new heavenly Jerusalem.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by John146 View Post
                  Interesting thoughts, Billy. I personally see a correlation between the following two passages.

                  2 Cor 6
                  14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
                  16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
                  17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

                  Rev 18
                  1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
                  2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
                  3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
                  4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

                  Seems to me that when God calls His people out of Babylon He is calling them out from unbelief, idol worship, worshiping false gods like Belial, and out of spiritual darkness in general. That's what Babylon seems to refer to. While the heavenly Jerusalem is the mother of all believers (Gal 4:26) it seems that Babylon is the "mother of harlots" and the mother of all unbelievers. It even says that it is "the hold of every foul spirit". It seems to be the spiritual counterpart to the new heavenly Jerusalem.
                  Yep . . . that^^^^^ . . .

                  What you are sharing here is very powerful, John146--and quite appropriate to this thread.

                  When you get a chance, I would be very interested in any insights you may have which can relate this verse:

                  1 Cor. 6:17
                  17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

                  to this in Isa. 52:11:

                  Isa. 52:1-12 (some context)
                  1 Awake, awake,
                  Clothe yourself in your strength, O Zion;
                  Clothe yourself in your beautiful garments,
                  O Jerusalem, the holy city;
                  For the uncircumcised and the unclean
                  Will no longer come into you.
                  2 Shake yourself from the dust, rise up,
                  O captive Jerusalem;
                  Loose yourself from the chains around your neck,
                  O captive daughter of Zion.
                  3 For thus says the LORD, “You were sold for nothing and you will be redeemed without money.”
                  4 For thus says the Lord GOD, “My people went down at the first into Egypt to reside there; then the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.
                  5 “Now therefore, what do I have here,” declares the LORD, “seeing that My people have been taken away without cause?” Again the LORD declares, “Those who rule over them howl, and My name is continually blasphemed all day long.
                  6 “Therefore My people shall know My name; therefore in that day I am the one who is speaking, ‘Here I am.’”
                  7 How lovely on the mountains
                  Are the feet of him who brings good news,
                  Who announces peace
                  And brings good news of happiness,
                  Who announces salvation,
                  And says to Zion, “Your God reigns!”
                  8 Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices,
                  They shout joyfully together;
                  For they will see with their own eyes
                  When the LORD restores Zion.
                  9 Break forth, shout joyfully together,
                  You waste places of Jerusalem;
                  For the LORD has comforted His people,
                  He has redeemed Jerusalem.
                  10 The LORD has bared His holy arm
                  In the sight of all the nations,
                  That all the ends of the earth may see
                  The salvation of our God.
                  11 Depart, depart, go out from there,
                  Touch nothing unclean;
                  Go out of the midst of her, purify yourselves,
                  You who carry the vessels of the LORD.

                  12 But you will not go out in haste,
                  Nor will you go as fugitives;
                  For the LORD will go before you,
                  And the God of Israel will be your rear guard.

                  and this:

                  Rev. 18:4
                  4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


                  (For a long time, I did not realize the reason why some translations of 2 Cor. 6:16 were capitalized--until I dawned on me that Paul is writing words that are not original with him; he is making reference to the Prophecy of Isaiah in Isa. 52--where the captive exile of Judah is told in so many words to leave "Babylon" and so on.)

                  Thank you so very much for your commitment to the Gospel . . .

                  Grace and peace,

                  Billy-brown 2


                  I Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

                  Comment

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