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  • Are Tongues Today Unbiblical?

    1 Corinthians 13:8 says that "charity never faileth, but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail, whether there be tongues, they shall cease, wether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.9 For we know in part and we prophecy in part10 but when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.....

    Now there are only 2 things that are perfect in christianity. Jesus and his word. But which is verse 10 reffering to? I believe it is the bible. It uses the word THAT, THAT is a thing not a person, just as the gifts are a thing and shall be done away.

    The gifts were given to the apostles to prove their commision by god, and to build the foundation of the church. Gods word is the foundation of the church. Once that was accomplished, there were no need for gifts. At least those gifts. Paul clarifies this in the last verse of chapter 13, where he lists the gifts that remain, " and now abideth faith, hope,charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

  • #2
    Originally posted by FieryProphet25 View Post
    1 Corinthians 13:8 says that "charity never faileth, but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail, whether there be tongues, they shall cease, wether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.9 For we know in part and we prophecy in part10 but when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.....

    Now there are only 2 things that are perfect in christianity. Jesus and his word. But which is verse 10 reffering to? I believe it is the bible. It uses the word THAT, THAT is a thing not a person, just as the gifts are a thing and shall be done away.

    The gifts were given to the apostles to prove their commision by god, and to build the foundation of the church. Gods word is the foundation of the church. Once that was accomplished, there were no need for gifts. At least those gifts. Paul clarifies this in the last verse of chapter 13, where he lists the gifts that remain, " and now abideth faith, hope,charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
    Welcome to the forum

    Let's me guess
    That "Bible" that is perfect is the KJV

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    • #3
      That Love

      Originally posted by FieryProphet25 View Post
      But which is verse 10 reffering to? I believe it is the bible. It uses the word THAT, THAT is a thing not a person, just as the gifts are a thing and shall be done away.
      The 'that' there is LOVE. When we all come to realise the complete and perfect love of God, all the others will become redundant. As I understand, there is none on this end eternity, who is yet to grasp the length, the breadth nor the height of his LOVE.
      sigpicLife! Just Live It!
      http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

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      • #4
        Originally posted by FieryProphet25 View Post
        1 Corinthians 13:8 says that "charity never faileth, but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail, whether there be tongues, they shall cease, wether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.9 For we know in part and we prophecy in part10 but when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.....

        Now there are only 2 things that are perfect in christianity. Jesus and his word. But which is verse 10 reffering to? I believe it is the bible. It uses the word THAT, THAT is a thing not a person, just as the gifts are a thing and shall be done away.

        The gifts were given to the apostles to prove their commision by god, and to build the foundation of the church. Gods word is the foundation of the church. Once that was accomplished, there were no need for gifts. At least those gifts. Paul clarifies this in the last verse of chapter 13, where he lists the gifts that remain, " and now abideth faith, hope,charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
        No, tongues are biblical

        9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

        Scripture breakdown for 1COR 13:9-12
        Christ’s ascention AD 30 Letter to the church at Corinth AD 55
        o 25 years later

        Paul was already an apostle ministering to the Gentiles but yet he says “now I know in part” and “For now we”

        “When that which is perfect is come that which is in part (imperfect) will be done away”. The Christian will never be perfect on this Earth. We strive to be holy as Christ was holy but all will fall short of perfection. Only after the Christian is in Heaven with God will we be made perfect.

        “Glass” represents our future. “Darkly” means we can see somewhat but it is not crystal clear. If we stay the course and finish the race then at the end all things will be revealed “face to face” with God.

        Paul says “now I know in part but then shall I know (fully) even as also I am known”. The Christian is the same as Paul. We only know in part when we are here on Earth but when we are with God in Heaven we will know fully. As the scripture says “To be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord”

        Questions?

        If the first coming of Christ or the completed Bible is what verse 10 is talking about then why does the apostle Paul write verse 9 and the last part of verse 12?

        Why does verse 12 say “For now we” (“for now” refers to a temporary situation and “we” refers to Paul and other Christians) if “that which is perfect is come” is Christ’s first coming or the completed Bible and Paul wrote this after Christ came in the flesh and before the Bible was completed?

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        • #5
          oops,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
          Last edited by FieryProphet25; Mar 4th 2008, 04:21 AM. Reason: I typed this in the wrong space, mean to quote.

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          • #6
            That cannot mean love

            Originally posted by ravi4u2 View Post
            The 'that' there is LOVE. When we all come to realise the complete and perfect love of God, all the others will become redundant. As I understand, there is none on this end eternity, who is yet to grasp the length, the breadth nor the height of his LOVE.
            THAT cannot refer to love..do this, replace THAT with love. This is how it reads. "But when LOVE which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away" This doesnt make sense...are you saying that at that time the lords perfect love didnt already exist? Because of jesus perfect love for us, he laid down his life. His perfect love already existed, he didnt PARTLY love us. The word perfect in this verse has a neuter meaning. Meaning non masculine, non feminine. Thus it must be speaking of a thing. We see through a glass darkly because of the uncompleted word. at that time the word was not complete. But when the word was completed, we have gods word, and the bible said that jesus is the word, so when the bible was completed, we were able to see"face to face" with the lord through his word. Look at the last 7 verses at the end of mark, it is the commision of the apostles. In this, it states that believers at that time will prophecy, speak in tongues and also be immune to poison and dangerous snakes, now if tongues still existed, then wouldnt being immune to poison still exist? and the answer is NO. IF you eat poison, and not seek medical attention, you will die.

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            • #7
              Personal Application

              Originally posted by FieryProphet25 View Post
              THAT cannot refer to love..do this, replace THAT with love. This is how it reads. "But when LOVE which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away" This doesnt make sense...are you saying that at that time the lords perfect love didnt already exist? Because of jesus perfect love for us, he laid down his life. His perfect love already existed, he didnt PARTLY love us. The word perfect in this verse has a neuter meaning. Meaning non masculine, non feminine. Thus it must be speaking of a thing. We see through a glass darkly because of the uncompleted word. at that time the word was not complete. But when the word was completed, we have gods word, and the bible said that jesus is the word, so when the bible was completed, we were able to see"face to face" with the lord through his word. Look at the last 7 verses at the end of mark, it is the commision of the apostles. In this, it states that believers at that time will prophecy, speak in tongues and also be immune to poison and dangerous snakes, now if tongues still existed, then wouldnt being immune to poison still exist? and the answer is NO. IF you eat poison, and not seek medical attention, you will die.
              It makes perfect sense because the whole chapter is about love. it is not talking about the Bible at all. Try reading it this way, "But when perfect love is come (into me)..." And the "unto me" is not a careless insertion with disregard to context because in verse 11, Paul says, "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things". Which is a very personal application.
              sigpicLife! Just Live It!
              http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

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              • #8
                Originally posted by FieryProphet25 View Post
                1 Corinthians 13:8 says that "charity never faileth, but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail, whether there be tongues, they shall cease, wether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.9 For we know in part and we prophecy in part10 but when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.....

                Now there are only 2 things that are perfect in christianity. Jesus and his word. But which is verse 10 reffering to? I believe it is the bible. It uses the word THAT, THAT is a thing not a person, just as the gifts are a thing and shall be done away.

                The gifts were given to the apostles to prove their commision by god, and to build the foundation of the church. Gods word is the foundation of the church. Once that was accomplished, there were no need for gifts. At least those gifts. Paul clarifies this in the last verse of chapter 13, where he lists the gifts that remain, " and now abideth faith, hope,charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
                Well, let's look at the rest of that scripture.

                1 Cor 13:8-12
                9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know fully just as I also have been fully known.
                NASB

                Do you know fully as you have been fully known? Even the hairs of your head are numbered and known. When that which is perfect has come, you will know as well as you are known. Then the part will be done away because it is no longer needed and we will no longer see through a glass darkly.

                So, if you/we know as well as you/we are known, then I suppose tongues have ceased.
                Matt 9:13
                13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                NASU

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                • #9
                  Beautiful

                  Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                  So, if you/we know as well as you/we are known, then I suppose tongues have ceased.
                  That was beautiful...
                  sigpicLife! Just Live It!
                  http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

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                  • #10
                    That which is perfect cannot be the bible because . . .

                    1) Paul didn't see the completed bible, but he stated in verse 12 that he would see the "that which is perfect".

                    2) Paul makes clear that the "that which is perfect" is something on a personal level when he begins speaking about how we look in a mirror dimly. When you look in a mirror you see a reflection. You don't see a bible. What Paul is saying is that right now you see a dim or dark reflection of what you are being transformed into. When we are fully transformed into His image, just as 2 Corinthians 3:18 proclaims, it is then that we will know as we are known. It is then that the "that which is perfect" has come. The "that which is perfect" is our transformation from corruptible to incorruptible.

                    2 Corinthians 3:18
                    But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
                    "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                    -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
                      That which is perfect cannot be the bible because . . .

                      1) Paul didn't see the completed bible, but he stated in verse 12 that he would see the "that which is perfect".

                      2) Paul makes clear that the "that which is perfect" is something on a personal level when he begins speaking about how we look in a mirror dimly. When you look in a mirror you see a reflection. You don't see a bible. What Paul is saying is that right now you see a dim or dark reflection of what you are being transformed into. When we are fully transformed into His image, just as 2 Corinthians 3:18 proclaims, it is then that we will know as we are known. It is then that the "that which is perfect" has come. The "that which is perfect" is our transformation from corruptible to incorruptible.
                      Good post...well said!!!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
                        That which is perfect cannot be the bible because . . .

                        1) Paul didn't see the completed bible, but he stated in verse 12 that he would see the "that which is perfect".

                        2) Paul makes clear that the "that which is perfect" is something on a personal level when he begins speaking about how we look in a mirror dimly. When you look in a mirror you see a reflection. You don't see a bible. What Paul is saying is that right now you see a dim or dark reflection of what you are being transformed into. When we are fully transformed into His image, just as 2 Corinthians 3:18 proclaims, it is then that we will know as we are known. It is then that the "that which is perfect" has come. The "that which is perfect" is our transformation from corruptible to incorruptible.
                        Correct. I wish more Christians who want to know the Truth abut this issue would understand this. It is perfectly clear from the text:

                        1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
                        All the text says is that our present condition of partial knowledge will end when we are perfected. It speaks of the Perfection of the Church.

                        Tongues didn't end because the Bible got completed. They aren't being used today as Acts 2 describes them because that is the Spirit's Will. He is the one Who says when the True Gift of Tongues will get used, not a church service bulletin. They are for unbelievers, as a sign of the Truth. And they require an interpretor if they are used in a local assembly. Any violation of these rules gives us the right to ignore those supposedly using them. Just as Paul said.

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                        • #13
                          Actually, speaking in tongues is the sign the Bible gives that the baptism in the Spirit has occured in our lives....

                          Acts 2:4, Acts 10:46, and Acts 19:6-all show this to be the case.

                          There are at least 2 different manifestations-or uses for speaking in tongues.

                          The wonderful experience of praying in tongues is available to all Christians, but some have a special public ministry gift of tongues.

                          For futher comparison, here is a chart summarizing and contrasting the different aspects of tongues:

                          Public Gift of Tongues

                          Spoken with interpretation to the church (Equal to prophecy-1 Corinthians 14:5)
                          To be interpreted (1 Corinthians 14:5)
                          Edifies the church (when interpreted-1 Corinthians 14:4-5)
                          A sign to unbelievers (1 Corinthians 14:22)
                          Not given to all believers (1 Corinthians 12:30))


                          Personal Prayer Tongue
                          Spoken privately to God (1 Corinthians 14:2)
                          No interpretation necessary (1 Corinthians 14:28)
                          Edifies the individual believer (1 Corinthians 14:4)
                          Can be manifested when no unbelievers are present (Acts 10:46; 19:6)
                          Should be desired and practiced by all Christians Mark 16:17; 1 Corinthians 14:5; Ephesians 6:18; Jude 20 ).



                          Those who say they are "unbiblical" don't know their Bible very well.

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                          • #14
                            Howdy FieryProphet25, Welcome aboard!
                            I hope you have some thick skin! Those of us that take the Bible as literal and perfect get some responces that make us wonder if we are wasting our time (sometimes) but try to remember that LOVE is what endures.
                            These folks that you are reading from do care or they would not be here!

                            Has speaking in tongues, the gift of prophecy, and human knowledge been done away yet?
                            I know personally I have never seen either of the first two used scripturally in my life time. What I do see every day is human knowledge trying to disprove the scripture or misinterppreting the Word. Will they all vanish away at the exact same time... I cannot tell. God knows.

                            Yes, 2 Peter 2:20, I do believe the KJV is the perfect word of God. But you already knew I believe that, I think. I still love ya brother!


                            1 Cor 13:8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
                            9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Did you Mean?

                              Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
                              I do believe the KJV is the perfect word of God.
                              Did you mean to say the perfect English translation of the word of God?
                              sigpicLife! Just Live It!
                              http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

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