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  • Is Baptism Necessary>?

    I have heard many people say that unless you are baptized you are not truely saved. Yet there are many passages of scripture that say faith is all you need to be saved.In fact, the theif on the cross was not baptized yet jesus said to him that this day you shall be with me in paradise. I talked to a catholic priest that said that paradise was referring to purgatory.(which i think it total baloney). What does everyone think? what verse CLEARLY says that it is necessary?

  • #2
    Originally posted by FieryProphet25 View Post
    I have heard many people say that unless you are baptized you are not truely saved. Yet there are many passages of scripture that say faith is all you need to be saved.In fact, the theif on the cross was not baptized yet jesus said to him that this day you shall be with me in paradise. I talked to a catholic priest that said that paradise was referring to purgatory.(which i think it total baloney). What does everyone think? what verse CLEARLY says that it is necessary?

    I believe you already have the best evidence against "water baptism" being part of salvation with the thief on the cross.

    Paul even said he was not sent to baptize in the verse below. Jesus never baptized by water. If it was that tied to salvation Jesus would have taught that we are saved by faith and ________ whatever you can put in the blank.

    I believe water baptism is a works that we should do as we start or walk to be like Christ. If it was not an important step our Savior would have not given us the example.

    1 Cor 1:17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

    When you ask a Catholic Priest about things of this nature remember that they still baptize infants also. I think this would rule them out as scriptural experts on the topic (not saying that I am one either).

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    • #3
      I agree.

      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
      I believe you already have the best evidence against "water baptism" being part of salvation with the thief on the cross.

      I believe water baptism is a works that we should do as we start or walk to be like Christ. If it was not an important step our Savior would have not given us the example.

      1 Cor 1:17For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
      Traditions come and go, and Jesus has, by His example, given us at least this one. Just as He has caused some Jewish Ceremonial traditions to cease.
      JER 14:13 Then said I: 'Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'
      JER 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me: 'The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by FieryProphet25 View Post
        I have heard many people say that unless you are baptized you are not truely saved. Yet there are many passages of scripture that say faith is all you need to be saved.In fact, the theif on the cross was not baptized yet jesus said to him that this day you shall be with me in paradise. I talked to a catholic priest that said that paradise was referring to purgatory.(which i think it total baloney). What does everyone think? what verse CLEARLY says that it is necessary?
        Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

        Prayer of repentance saves a soul, not baptism.

        Comment


        • #5
          Your question is really, what little do I have to do to be saved? One must take in the whole council of God, to say this is not necessary is man's council not God's. What saves (SWDZW) there are nine things that save:

          God's grace; Jesus life; Work of the Holy Spirit;

          A Christians voice; the name of Jesus; Baptism;

          Your personal faith: Personal hope; Personal love;

          All nine of these are found in the NT with the word SWDZW salvation, saves, don't settle for one but for the whole council of God. Ac.20:26,27

          Take any one of these out and your not in. All nine work together to bring about your salvation. It is God working with you, it is a Christian working with you and its you working with you.

          Go ahead, listen to all the arguments to do this and not this, but why not ask God what He calls for you to do and then do them all, do as much as you can to secure your salvation, do not settle for the minimal go for the maximum.

          I add one more to the list of nine, for these to me are all vital to your coming into the kingdom but what sustains you over the years is fellowship. I have been a Christian for 24 years and it wasn't the sermons, the classes nor the communions that sustained, in fact I remember few of them. Not that they weren't important for they really were.

          But what sustained me was the love of the brethren in my life. it was the brother and sister who took me in and fed me for 6 months. It was those who visited me when I was hurting, who gave me a ride when I needed it, who spoke words of encouragement when I was down. I remember all these, it was the fellowship of the brethren, the love of God flowing from their hearts that sustained my walk with God these past 24 years.

          RJ Mac

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RJ Mac View Post
            Your question is really, what little do I have to do to be saved?

            I didn't get that impression at all. Just because this person is asking if it's necessary doesn't mean that they are trying to take shortcuts in their faith. To suggest you know what this person is thinking is not only dangerous, but kinda insulting, IMO.

            That said, I don't think baptism is necessary, but I think someone who is saved and hasn't been baptised might want to get baptised...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by FieryProphet25 View Post
              I have heard many people say that unless you are baptized you are not truely saved. Yet there are many passages of scripture that say faith is all you need to be saved.
              Do the “many passages of scripture that say faith is all you need to be saved” negate the other requirements of the gospel of Christ. Surely we are not at liberty to reject the many verses in the Bible that tell of the importance of repentance and baptism in God’s plan of redemption. Jesus said, “except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish”. Doesn’t one have to repent before salvation is ours?

              In fact, the theif on the cross was not baptized yet jesus said to him that this day you shall be with me in paradise.
              Two questions – (1) how do you know the thief was not baptized with the baptism of John the Baptist? (2) Was Christian baptism commanded by Christ as part of the “Great Commission” (Matt 28) commanded before or after Jesus died on the cross; i.e., before or after the thief was forgiven?

              what verse CLEARLY says that it is necessary?
              “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...” (Mark 16:16)

              The first clause of this passage (he that believeth and is baptized) clearly comes before the second clause (shall be saved). Of course the verse also teaches that the person who does not believe is not a candidate to be baptized. Without belief one who is baptized only gets wet.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by FieryProphet25 View Post
                I have heard many people say that unless you are baptized you are not truely saved. Yet there are many passages of scripture that say faith is all you need to be saved.In fact, the theif on the cross was not baptized yet jesus said to him that this day you shall be with me in paradise. I talked to a catholic priest that said that paradise was referring to purgatory.(which i think it total baloney). What does everyone think? what verse CLEARLY says that it is necessary?
                There are many passages that say baptism is necessary. First, let me ask:

                Do you think remission of sins is necessary to be saved?

                Do you think dying to the old self and being raised a new creature is necessary?

                Do you think it is necessary to be a slave to righteousness, or can one be saved and still be a slave to sin?

                Scripture shows baptism to be part of all these things:

                Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

                Act 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

                Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

                1Pe 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

                Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
                Rom 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


                If you believe that Jesus is the Son of the Living God, and are willing to repent and confess His name publicly as Savior, God commands you to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

                These follow baptism of the faithful:

                Remission of sins -- Acts 2:38; 22:16
                Gift of the Holy Spirit -- Acts 2:38
                Being added to the church -- Acts 2:47
                Salvation -- 1 Peter 3:21
                Being raised with Christ -- Romans 6:3-8
                Putting on Christ -- Gal. 3:27

                Since all these things follow baptism, does it not seem likely that baptism is required by the Lord Jesus?


                [CENTER][SIZE=2]A FEW MINUTES WITH SOMEONE WHO LOVES YOU

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Keene View Post
                  ...That said, I don't think baptism is necessary, but I think someone who is saved and hasn't been baptised might want to get baptised...
                  In your Bible does Mark 16: 16 reads..."He that believeth and is not baptized shall be saved."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Matt14 View Post
                    There are many passages that say baptism is necessary. First, let me ask:

                    Do you think remission of sins is necessary to be saved?

                    Do you think dying to the old self and being raised a new creature is necessary?

                    Do you think it is necessary to be a slave to righteousness, or can one be saved and still be a slave to sin?

                    Scripture shows baptism to be part of all these things:

                    Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

                    Act 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

                    Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

                    1Pe 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

                    Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
                    Rom 6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

                    If you believe that Jesus is the Son of the Living God, and are willing to repent and confess His name publicly as Savior, God commands you to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

                    These follow baptism of the faithful:

                    Remission of sins -- Acts 2:38; 22:16
                    Gift of the Holy Spirit -- Acts 2:38
                    Being added to the church -- Acts 2:47
                    Salvation -- 1 Peter 3:21
                    Being raised with Christ -- Romans 6:3-8
                    Putting on Christ -- Gal. 3:27

                    Since all these things follow baptism, does it not seem likely that baptism is required by the Lord Jesus?
                    This is what I've always believed. I've been baptized in His Name.
                    The Word clearly says, "for the remission of sins"...but, then I'm just a simple person and I tend to take statements like that from His Word as to mean what it says.
                    Years ago I had a encylopedia, under baptisim it said that for approx. the first 300 years after Christ was risen that all recored baptisims were immersed in water in the Name of Jesus. I wish I would have kept that encylopedia...not that it takes the place of His Word, but it was interesting to see.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by losthorizon View Post
                      In your Bible does Mark 16: 16 reads..."He that believeth and is not baptized shall be saved."


                      That's a good point. Not sure how anyone can argue with that point.

                      If you don't mind, I have a question for you or anyone else that may have an answer. I'm 50 yrs old now, but when I was 12 or 13 I got saved in a Baptist church and was water baptized. A cpl of yrs later I got involved in drugs and pretty much fell away. Does that time count for being baptized, or am I supposed to be water baptized again, since I fell into sin after being baptized ?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FieryProphet25 View Post
                        I have heard many people say that unless you are baptized you are not truely saved. Yet there are many passages of scripture that say faith is all you need to be saved.In fact, the theif on the cross was not baptized yet jesus said to him that this day you shall be with me in paradise. I talked to a catholic priest that said that paradise was referring to purgatory.(which i think it total baloney). What does everyone think? what verse CLEARLY says that it is necessary?
                        Baptism is necessary for salvation. But it is not the physical Baptism of John, it is the spiritual Baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ. Jesus is the living water that cleanses us and makes us whole. That is how the thief on the cross was baptized.

                        Israel is a physical picture of the spiritual. As the physical lamb was replaced by Jesus, so is the physical water replaced by Jesus. Jesus is all in all.

                        terrell

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by divaD View Post
                          That's a good point. Not sure how anyone can argue with that point.

                          If you don't mind, I have a question for you or anyone else that may have an answer. I'm 50 yrs old now, but when I was 12 or 13 I got saved in a Baptist church and was water baptized. A cpl of yrs later I got involved in drugs and pretty much fell away. Does that time count for being baptized, or am I supposed to be water baptized again, since I fell into sin after being baptized ?
                          Those who are baptized according to the teachings of the NT, i.e., those who believe, repent and are baptized “for the remission of sins” (Acts 2:38) need not be “re-baptized” when they sin. Christians who sin after the point of conversion are taught to repent of those sins and confess their sins through prayer to God. When this is done God is faithful to “cleanse us from all unrighteousness”.
                          If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1Jn 1:9 )

                          Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ..Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:37,38,41)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tgallison View Post
                            Baptism is necessary for salvation. But it is not the physical Baptism of John, it is the spiritual Baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ. Jesus is the living water that cleanses us and makes us whole. That is how the thief on the cross was baptized.

                            Israel is a physical picture of the spiritual. As the physical lamb was replaced by Jesus, so is the physical water replaced by Jesus. Jesus is all in all.

                            terrell
                            The baptism that puts the penitent believer “into Christ” is the “one baptism” of Ephesians 4: 5. And that “one baptism” is the baptism of the Great Commission as commanded by Jesus and administered by the hands men. The baptism administered by men is Christian baptism (immersion in water) where the believer is baptized “into Christ’s death” (His blood was shed at His death) and the Holy Spirit applies the blood of Christ to the one being baptized and his/her sins are “washed away”.
                            Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Rom 6: 3-4)

                            And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (Act 22:16)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by losthorizon View Post
                              The baptism that puts the penitent believer “into Christ” is the “one baptism” of Ephesians 4: 5. And that “one baptism” is the baptism of the Great Commission as commanded by Jesus and administered by the hands men. The baptism administered by men is Christian baptism (immersion in water) where the believer is baptized “into Christ’s death” (His blood was shed at His death) and the Holy Spirit applies the blood of Christ to the one being baptized and his/her sins are “washed away”.
                              Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Rom 6: 3-4)

                              And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. (Act 22:16)
                              losthorizon greetings

                              I was sprinkled once, and dunked once and all I got was wet. When I was baptized with the Holy Spirit, I got Jesus.

                              Why did John baptize with water?

                              To manifest Jesus as the Messiah.

                              John 1:31 "And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel. therefore am I come baptizing with water."

                              This is the reason everyone was baptized with water, to let the Jews know their Messiah had come.

                              Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance; but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."

                              Mark 1:8 "I indeed have baptized you with water; but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost."

                              Luke 3:16

                              John 1:33

                              Acts 1:5 "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."

                              1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free: and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

                              Ephesians 4:5 Is speaking of a spiritual baptism.

                              Paul said, Christ sent him not to baptize. 1 Corinthians 1:17

                              The water baptism was to declare the Messiah had come. Paul baptized at the first because it was a declaration the Messiah had come. As Israel was set aside it was no longer essential, otherwise Paul would not have said what he said.

                              We baptize with water to day to declare our stand with Christ. It has nothing to do with our salvation. Our salvation is in the living water.

                              In Jesus Christ, terrell

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