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  • Creationism vs Evolution - why the dispute?

    Hi all, first thread in BF !!

    Ok, here's something I've thought about for a year; isn't it LIKELY that He compressed what, to us, seems like a multi-million year process of evolution, into a week? That it's a simple case of acceleration?

    I just don't see what the conflict between Creationism and Evolution is, we have two sets of evidence that may SEEM to contradict each other, but I don't think they do. I don't know where in the Bible it states that He did not simply "Fast-Forward" the necessary process.

    Your thoughts, good people?

  • #2
    I'd suggest you read "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist" which address traditional evolution versus intelligent design. Macroevolution, which is the classic theory of evolution, suggests that natural laws created complex intelligent being over millions of years. Intelligent design suggests all being were made from a Creator. Thus, chimps and humans may have similiar DNA because of a common Creator. Macroevolution (ex dinosours to birds) has never been observed. Microevolution (bacteria mutating) has. God designed His Creation to be able to evolve. The fossil records that anthropologists is very sorely lacking. Anyway, I can't explain it as well as the book does, but you can have the Bible and sciene coincide if you're looking at truthful science.
    We serve God by serving others. The world defines greatness in terms of power, possessions, prestige, and position. If you can demand service from others, you've arrived. In our self-serving culture with its me-first mentality, acting like a servant is not a popular concept.Ē Rick Warren
    [sigpic

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    • #3
      Originally posted by JaybeeinBibleForum View Post
      Hi all, first thread in BF !!

      Ok, here's something I've thought about for a year; isn't it LIKELY that He compressed what, to us, seems like a multi-million year process of evolution, into a week? That it's a simple case of acceleration?

      I just don't see what the conflict between Creationism and Evolution is, we have two sets of evidence that may SEEM to contradict each other, but I don't think they do. I don't know where in the Bible it states that He did not simply "Fast-Forward" the necessary process.

      Your thoughts, good people?
      Why would God accelerate the cycle when He's just as able to produce the end result from the start? Evolution and Creationism do at points conflict and contradict. They both have propositions that both can't be true: Creation out of the dust of the ground, imbued by the breath of God definitely contradicts a hundreds billion year evolutionary process.

      I agree that the Bible doesn't state God didn't 'fast-forward' the process, but now you're arguing a negative.

      Comment


      • #4
        My understanding is that the evolutionists started with a false assumption. That assumption being that there has to be an equilibrium between C14 being produced and an equal amount being removed and that equilibrium is based on today's ratio of C12 to C14 in the atmosphere.

        Without going into the dry science of it, this assumption then has caused faulty readings that state the earth is older than it really is.

        This assumption that "the present is key to the past" does not wash with current scientific findings about C14.

        How can you have the Cenozoic, Mesozoic, and Paleozoic geologic column all with significant C14 still in them if they are truly the billions of years old that traditional C14 dating says they are when C14 has a short half-life? There should be little or no C14 if they are billions of years old. The half life of C14 would make them less than 100,000 years old.

        "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" is a very appropriate title for the book.

        I say that it doesn't matter in the scheme of GOD's plan for us whether the world is old or not.
        Christ after all created the oldest of wines at the wedding party.

        What matters is always "What say you of the Christ."

        The origins of the earth only matters to the nonbelievers because if the creationists are correct, then the nonbelievers will have to rethink their whole foundational value system and be accountable for their denial of God on that judgment day.

        Unbiased science will always prove the existence of God.

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        • #5
          Many thanks to the respondents!

          Finewine - what is 'C14'?

          Wonder Woman (nice name, although your namesake may have made this young boy grow into a man a little ahead of time!), thank you very much for the book recommendation. I'm a busy chappy, I'll look for the 'bare-bones' reviews of it.

          Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
          Why would God accelerate the cycle when He's just as able to produce the end result from the start?
          A very good question, mate. Why did it take Him 7 days? Why not 6 days, or 8 days? Or 8 milliseconds? Quite possibly a topic worthy of it's own thread.

          Evolution and Creationism do at points conflict and contradict. They both have propositions that both can't be true: Creation out of the dust of the ground, imbued by the breath of God definitely contradicts a hundreds billion year evolutionary process.
          That's IF it took that long, and IF you discount the fact that He actually took 7 days.

          I agree that the Bible doesn't state God didn't 'fast-forward' the process, but now you're arguing a negative.
          I wasn't arguing. You'll know it when I make an argument. I was requesting information which you kindly supplied.

          Comment


          • #6
            If the world is indeed bajillions of years old, acceleration isn't actually necessary. I know that some people hold that just as Adam was created a mature, fully developed man, so the universe was created "with age". Just a thought
            Call to Me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known. Jeremiah 33:3
            You put the stars in the sky and you know them by name, You see the depths of my heart and You love me the same, You are amazing, God.
            I do not 'hope' I am saved and I do not 'think' I am saved, I know it with an absolute conviction. I know that I am saved just as I know that I think and I know that I feel. I am purchased and sealed, His possession.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by finewine View Post
              My understanding is that the evolutionists started with a false assumption. That assumption being that there has to be an equilibrium between C14 being produced and an equal amount being removed and that equilibrium is based on today's ratio of C12 to C14 in the atmosphere.

              Without going into the dry science of it, this assumption then has caused faulty readings that state the earth is older than it really is.

              This assumption that "the present is key to the past" does not wash with current scientific findings about C14.

              How can you have the Cenozoic, Mesozoic, and Paleozoic geologic column all with significant C14 still in them if they are truly the billions of years old that traditional C14 dating says they are when C14 has a short half-life? There should be little or no C14 if they are billions of years old. The half life of C14 would make them less than 100,000 years old.

              "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" is a very appropriate title for the book.

              I say that it doesn't matter in the scheme of GOD's plan for us whether the world is old or not.
              Christ after all created the oldest of wines at the wedding party.

              What matters is always "What say you of the Christ."

              The origins of the earth only matters to the nonbelievers because if the creationists are correct, then the nonbelievers will have to rethink their whole foundational value system and be accountable for their denial of God on that judgment day.

              Unbiased science will always prove the existence of God.

              UMM...Ya. What he said (lol)

              I'm assuming by C-14 you mean some sort of carbon gas, but that's just a guess. You sound like you know what you're talking about, though, so I'll agree.

              Comment


              • #8
                Moving to the apologetics forum.
                Matt 9:13
                13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                NASU

                Comment


                • #9
                  I too have often wondered why there is so much hoopla over the conflict. I do not have a theory of creation as the area is far outside my field of training. As a Christian, I believe that God created all that is from nothing through Jesus. I find I must accept the reality of Adam as progenitor of the species because salvation seems to hinge on the fall through Adam and redemption through Christ. It seems hard to think or Adam as a "type" or a creation myth without doing the same for Christ. But as to how he and everything else came to be, I remain silent.

                  I know God can do anything, and He can do it anyway He wants, instantaneously or over time. God does not have to take billions of years or six days, although He can use either method.

                  In either case, it does not change who God is, who we are, or how we need to respond to God.
                  "Here I raise my Ebenezer"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by WonderWoman4Jesus View Post
                    I'd suggest you read "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist" which address traditional evolution versus intelligent design. Macroevolution, which is the classic theory of evolution, suggests that natural laws created complex intelligent being over millions of years. Intelligent design suggests all being were made from a Creator. Thus, chimps and humans may have similiar DNA because of a common Creator. Macroevolution (ex dinosours to birds) has never been observed. Microevolution (bacteria mutating) has. God designed His Creation to be able to evolve. The fossil records that anthropologists is very sorely lacking. Anyway, I can't explain it as well as the book does, but you can have the Bible and sciene coincide if you're looking at truthful science.
                    I just had to quote this and tell you how very impressed I was with it. I recommend this book alot too though haven't had the chance to actually read it yet. Sounds like you have though!

                    As for the original posts...I really wish the two could be discussed without the extreme emotional stuff going on both ends also... But the sad fact is people have lost their faith due to Darwin's evolutions thinking there is no need for a God because it somehow all just happened by itself...exactly the right way at the right time...and for them it can all be explained away through science. So that makes it a sore point for many Christians...

                    God bless
                    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ImmenseDisciple View Post
                      If the world is indeed bajillions of years old, acceleration isn't actually necessary. I know that some people hold that just as Adam was created a mature, fully developed man, so the universe was created "with age". Just a thought
                      Sort of answers the question "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        C14
                        We are not talking about the explosives on tv spy movies.

                        C14 is radiocarbon.

                        It is 14 times as heavy as hydrogen atoms.
                        I wrote it incorrectly in my first post. Dyslexic, sorry.

                        14C (That is not 14 degrees Celsius)
                        How does one make the 14 a superscript?

                        It is radioactive and has a slow decay rate.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JaybeeinBibleForum View Post
                          Hi all, first thread in BF !!

                          Ok, here's something I've thought about for a year; isn't it LIKELY that He compressed what, to us, seems like a multi-million year process of evolution, into a week? That it's a simple case of acceleration?

                          I just don't see what the conflict between Creationism and Evolution is, we have two sets of evidence that may SEEM to contradict each other, but I don't think they do. I don't know where in the Bible it states that He did not simply "Fast-Forward" the necessary process.

                          Your thoughts, good people?
                          .. The conflict is a many faceted item and when it all boils down there are two major issues that everything falls into. The first issue for the Christian will always remain the sinlessness of God. God not only will not lie but it is one thing that God cannot do because to lie is to sin and God is, by His very nature, without sin. In a study of the whole Bible we see that God has managed to define a day as a 24 hour period or the physical rotation of the Earth or one complete cycle. It is true that this definition is not found in the creation account, however, throughout the entire Bible there is great pain taken by the Holy Father to assure us that one day is exactly as we, today, know it.
                          .. All of this being true, it would mean that God specifically and intentionally lied to us in the creation account and would, therefore, not be God, as He has defined Himself in the Holy Bible.
                          .. There is I noticed the wish to know why God created the Earth in seven days. The very first thing to do is to straighten out the error in that question, He did not create the Earth and all the universe in seven days. Jesus created the Earth in six days (Jon. 1) and on the seventh, He rested from His labor. (Gen. 2:2) The reason God did this was to establish a healthy pattern for life, that men might look to God and live properly. God, being unexplainably omniscient could have created everything that exists in less than one second. There is no limit to God in doin good works.
                          .. The other major category is Evolution, itself. Any credible scientist will admit that there is not a single supporting piece of evidence for this theory. There is not a single life form on this earth today that can be traced back to an ancestor that was of a different species. In the case of man it has long been taught that cro-magnon man is descended from the Neanderthal life form. With the advent of DNA there was the effort made to establish this sub theory as truth and the truth is that the two life forms are, in no manor, related.
                          .. In summary, there is no case support for such an idea.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JaybeeinBibleForum View Post
                            Hi all, first thread in BF !!


                            we have two sets of evidence that may SEEM to contradict each other, but I don't think they do.

                            Your thoughts, good people?
                            we all have the same evidence, only different people have different presuppositions before they look at it. some assume evolution to be true and seek the answer with millions of years already in the back of their head. same can be said for creaionists, only visa versa.

                            for me, the answer is so easy it's a wonder why everyone on earth isn't chrsitian.

                            ps. werner gitt has some great books. read read read.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Look at it this way..........
                              1. A day of the Lord consisted of God said, God made/created, God saw that it was good.
                              In the mist of that He blessed He called and He spoke directly to man a gave man a view "behold". Oh, and the first day He separated.
                              I donít see 24 hr days here, the sun and moon for times and seasons where not until the 4th day.

                              As you all probably know. Interpretation of scripture within the churches are an issue, in and of itself. But it is the Holy Spirit that knows what Godís Word means. Just as your hand understands what your head is telling it to do. Nothing else knows but only your head and your hand knows, the same in the Body of Christ.

                              That said, science has found stuff in the earth or about the earth and that which surrounds it. But who interprets the information. And what is the motive of said interpreter. Who gets grants, who gets cooperate contracts to find discoveries in whoís interest. If evolution as a theory was proven wrong, how many text book sales to fed funded ed. System would not be sold? Just to rase a few questions in that direction.

                              The earth or universe is honest and not a liar, for if it is, God made it. Science tries to read what happened but they donít know how to interpret it. And since the science community and the church community have a long history of animosity, there is a stumbling block. Also when some church authority says something like it was 24 hr days, well the bible does not say that, and the science community can read, this is also a stumbling bock, you canít expect science to be confident in that.
                              Let there be Light

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