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Is the Tribulation 7 Years long or not????

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  • Is the Tribulation 7 Years long or not????

    Daniels 70th Week/7 Year Tribulation

    It is presumed to be seven years long.


    The tribulation is a time of world wide wrath by God, the likes which we have never seen.

    First Half of Tribulation
    The antichrist comes onto the world scene in 2 Thess 2:9, Rev 6:2, the world hails him as the Christ (matt 24:23)…he confirms a covenant for one ‘seven’ (Daniel 9:27) but does not yet control the world and all its power.

    I don’t think that God will allow “every kind of plague as often as they want”, unless it is during the time of the appointed wrath.

    Rev 11 gives us a clue. The two witnesses are going about their business of God, striking the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want without any harm coming to them. They do this for 17 days short of 3 & ス years. It is also during this time that the holy city is being trampled for 42 months or 3 & ス years.

    Second Half of Tribulation
    It makes sense that at this point, 'the middle of the seven- Dan 9:27', the antichrist gains world power (Rev 17:13) for 42 months or 3& ス years, (Rev 13:5), at this point and is allowed by God to kill the two witnesses Rev 11:7.

    In Rev 17:13 the antichrist gets his power and Rev 13:5 tells us how long it lasts (42 months)
    Daniel 7:25 tells us that the saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.
    It is assumed Time=1 year, Times=2 years, Half a time= 6 months…3& ス years or 42 months. This fits nicely into our presumption.


    The antichrist will rule the world for 42 months until he is killed by Jesus Christ at the Revelation. Daniel 7:21 tells of the antichrist waging war against the saints and then is forced to lose by Jesus Christ. This also tells the story. Rev 13:7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them.


    God does kind of indicate a pattern of seven for punishment in scripture.

    Leviticus 26:18
    " 'If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over.

    Daniel 4:16
    Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times pass by for him.

    Leviticus 26:21
    " 'If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve.

    Judges 6:1
    [ Gideon ] Again the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the LORD, and for seven years he gave them into the hands of the Midianites.

    Revelation 15:1[ Seven Angels with Seven Plagues ] I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God's wrath is completed.




    I think that it is safe to say that the tribulation is seven years long.



    What do you think??????
    Revelation 3:3
    .....If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

  • #2
    Hmm, we'll find out how long the tribulation is.

    I mean, we all know the storyline. But when we live it, we cannot assume we know what comes next, scene by scene. For example, there was a 7-year tribulation at around 70ad when the temple was destroyed, so maybe it already happened. I dont believe it already happened because there was no messiah in 70ad. But I think Christians sometimes have to step back from endtimes studies, and realize they may live these events in their lifetimes. They will either be raptured or fight the war on the ground, but cannot become complacent just because they read it will be over in seven years.

    The Christian Boards and books have done an amazing job of mapping out the timelines -- now they need to put those things aside and do their part when revelations starts to unfold.

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    • #3
      I was reading a thread where someone asked ..'how do we really know that the tribulation is 7 years long'.

      That WAS a good question...so I tried to tackle it myself last night, just to see what I could come up with. I think that I proved it to myself with a certain amount of probability.

      Revelation 11 was the key for me....
      Revelation 3:3
      .....If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

      Comment


      • #4
        The Revelation only describes a period of 42 months, 1260 days, time and times and half a time, etc. Never does the Revelation describe a seven-year period; it only describes a 3.5 year period. Daniel 12 refers to 1335 days and 1290 days, each being just more than 3.5 years.

        As for the individual of Daniel 9. In the context of the whole passage, only one individual is being discussed. This individual is explicitly called "the Messiah" (or "Anointed One" or "Christ") and "the Prince" (or "Ruler" or "Leader") in verse 9:25, and He is prophesied to come in the future. "Messiah" is mentioned in the future tense in verse 9:26, so we directly refer back to the individual of verse 9:25. "The Prince" is mentioned in the future tense, so in context with verse 9:25, this "Prince who is to come" can be seen to be the same individual as the one mentioned in verses 9:25 and 9:26. This covenant-maker is "the Messiah, the Prince" (9:25).

        Daniel 9 never says that the covenant being made was to be brought to an end. All it says is that the "Prince" was to make a "covenant with many" during the week (i.e., the final "week" of the 70 weeks), and halfway through that week/seven years He would put an end to offering and sacrifice. Jesus arrived at the end of the 69th week (and thusly, at the start of the 70th week). He began His ministry, preaching the New Covenant with mankind. Three-and-one-half years later (i.e., halfway through the final "week," the final seven years) He was crucified, and He became the final, one and only sacrifice/sin-offering. He put an end to sacrifices and sin-offerings with His one and only sacrifice. And, as Daniel 9 stated, "desolations were decreed" (9:26) and the events following Jesus' sacrifice "consummated" (9:27) in the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple (Daniel 9:26-27, Luke 21:6,20-24) in the lifetime of Jesus' generation (Luke 21:32) by means of armies/war (Daniel 9:26, Luke 21:20).

        The covenant-maker of Daniel 9 is not "the antichrist," and neither is he the "man of lawlessness." Again, in the context of the whole passage, only one individual is being discussed, explicitly called "the Messiah, the Prince." The covenant-maker is the Messiah, and nothing in Daniel 9 says that the covenent he makes would come to an end.



        The "abomination of desolation" mentioned in Daniel 9 is referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21:

        Matthew 24:15-16 So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel様et the reader understand葉hen let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

        Mark 13:14 When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong様et the reader understand葉hen let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

        Luke 21:20-21 When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

        Notice! Where Matthew and Mark mention "abomination that causes desolation," Luke mentions "Jerusalem being surrounded by armies." The "abomination of desolation" Jesus spoke of isn't some antichrist performing an evil ritual in the temple, it is a group of armies surrounding Jerusalem, coming to destroy the city and the temple! Let's read on in Luke's version:

        Luke 21:22-24 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

        Jesus outright states that the armies surrounding Jerusalem (i.e., the "abomination that causes desolation") is punishment. Who is being punished? The people in Jerusalem. And who is punishing them? God. This may seem backwards at first, but is this really any different than when God punished the people of Jerusalem through the forces of Nebuchadnezzar?

        Then Jesus says that Jerusalem will be "trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." The only place in the Revelation that this corresponds to is Revelation 11:1-2, where John is told that "[the Gentiles] will trample on the holy city [Jerusalem] for 42 months." 42 months, 1260 days, time and times and half a time, three and a half years.

        A seven year tribulation doesn't fit. A three and a half year tribulation does.
        To This Day

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        • #5
          I find this interesting, as all of Ezekiel. But what is this seven years? And if it happened already, when? If not, does it have any relevance in the seven year question of the tribulation?

          Eze 39:9 "Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and bucklers, the bows and arrows, the javelins and spears; and they will make fires with them for seven years.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Illumined View Post
            Daniels 70th Week/7 Year Tribulation

            It is presumed to be seven years long...What do you think??????
            Some people believe it to be 7 years, others 3 1/2 years, and others some undefined period of time. My Exegetical Commentary notes a period of 42 months of tragedy - just not sure yet if there is another and different 42 months at this point. But I have never noted an explicit mention of "7 years".

            Blessings.
            "A text without context is a pretext."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by markedward View Post
              The Revelation only describes a period of 42 months, 1260 days, time and times and half a time, etc. Never does the Revelation describe a seven-year period; it only describes a 3.5 year period. Daniel 12 refers to 1335 days and 1290 days, each being just more than 3.5 years.

              A seven year tribulation doesn't fit. A three and a half year tribulation does.
              What about the two witness raging the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want with no harm coming to them. They do this for 17 days short of three and one half years???

              No harm until there three and one half years are done and then the antichrist kills them. He rules for 42 months??

              What about the indications of God using a period of time in sevens as punishment??


              Leviticus 26:18
              " 'If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over.

              Daniel 4:16
              Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times pass by for him.

              Leviticus 26:21
              " 'If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve.

              Judges 6:1
              [ Gideon ] Again the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the LORD, and for seven years he gave them into the hands of the Midianites.

              Revelation 15:1[ Seven Angels with Seven Plagues ] I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues様ast, because with them God's wrath is completed.


              Doesn't this seem plausible??
              Revelation 3:3
              .....If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Illumined View Post
                What about the two witness raging the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want with no harm coming to them. They do this for 17 days short of three and one half years???
                The passage says they do this for 1260 days. That's nowhere near being seven years.

                No harm until there three and one half years are done and then the antichrist kills them. He rules for 42 months??
                Beast. The term "antichrist" does not appear in the Revelation. There doesn't appear to be enough room to fit a full 42 months between the time of their deaths and the seventh trumpet. The 42 months that the beast rules during (see Revelation 13) seems best to correspond to the 42 months of the Gentiles (see Revelation 11), and this 42 months is parallel to the 1260 days that the witnesses preach during, and the 1260 days that the woman (see Revelation 12) is protected. If you try to add each instance of 1260 days/42 months/time and times and half a time, you get more than seven years.

                What about the indications of God using a period of time in sevens as punishment??
                The following verses relate to other times and other people; none of them speak of the end-times, and none of them are from the Revelation.

                Leviticus 26:18
                " 'If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over.
                This passage of Leviticus mentions four sets of sevens, not just one. And neither do they mention years. God is saying He will multiply the punishment in intensity, not in duration. If I say I fill a cup "two times over," I'm not saying I'm filling it over a doubly-long period, I'm saying I filled it with a double amount.

                Daniel 4:16
                Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times pass by for him.
                This was for Nebuchadnezzar, not in the Revelation.

                Leviticus 26:21
                " 'If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve.
                "Seven times over" does not equate to "seven years."

                Judges 6:1
                [ Gideon ] Again the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the LORD, and for seven years he gave them into the hands of the Midianites.
                What does this have to do with the Revelation?

                Revelation 15:1[ Seven Angels with Seven Plagues ] I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues様ast, because with them God's wrath is completed.
                Seven angels, seven plagues, seven trumpets, seven thunders, seven seals... I don't see seven years anywhere.
                To This Day

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Illumined View Post
                  What about the two witness raging the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want with no harm coming to them. They do this for 17 days short of three and one half years???

                  No harm until there three and one half years are done and then the antichrist kills them. He rules for 42 months??

                  What about the indications of God using a period of time in sevens as punishment??


                  Leviticus 26:18
                  " 'If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over.

                  Daniel 4:16
                  Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times pass by for him.

                  Leviticus 26:21
                  " 'If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve.

                  Judges 6:1
                  [ Gideon ] Again the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the LORD, and for seven years he gave them into the hands of the Midianites.

                  Revelation 15:1[ Seven Angels with Seven Plagues ] I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues様ast, because with them God's wrath is completed.


                  Doesn't this seem plausible??
                  Seems plausible to me.


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                  • #10
                    The more I analyze it...the more I convince myself it to be so.....in my own mind that is.

                    The antichrist confirms a covenant for one seven. He can't break it until he is allowed by God to have all the power in the world. Half way through the seven...God grants it via the ten kings whom God has placed it in their hearts to hand over the world power.

                    Now antichrist has all the granted power and authority to do as he wills.
                    He kills the two witnesses, forces a world-wide economic sanction and worship of himself by threat of death and enforces it. He rules for 42 months to the end.

                    I don't see it possible that the two witnesses can be killed by antichrist until God grants him worldwide power and authority to do so. He does it to them and then he starts on the christians. Scriptures say that he will succeed in all that he wills. Dan 8:24-25.

                    To get to seven years...I look before he is allowed to wage war and kill holy people.

                    I see two holy people waging the wrath of God on earth as they will for 17 days short of 3 and 1/2 years. This can only be during the time of the wrath of God. They do so unharmed for almost 3 and 1/2 years and then antichrist comes to power and kills them...and reigns for 3 and 1/2 years.

                    I see 7 years very clearly.

                    I am more convinced by my own study than that of the popular authors of today.

                    If you don't see it that way...no big deal...this is not a spine issue, perhaps not even a rib issue either.
                    Revelation 3:3
                    .....If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by markedward View Post
                      A seven year tribulation doesn't fit. A three and a half year tribulation does.
                      He cant kill the holy people until he is granted world power for 42 months. The saints are handed over to him by God.
                      Two witness rage the earth for almost 42 months unharmed before he is granted to the power of the earth and with that wage war on the holy people and kill them.

                      The two witness can't be raging the earth with the wrath of God unless it is during the time of His wrath. They do this for almost 42 months before antichrist comes to power and kills them and then goes on raging the earth himself for 42 months.

                      I kind of repeat myself....sorry.

                      I see 'almost' 42 months of God's wrath on earth before antichrist comes to power for the next 42 months. That is 84 months or 7 years.
                      Revelation 3:3
                      .....If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by skc53
                        I believe the Bible says...the tribulation will last 7 years.
                        None of the stuff quoted says "The tribulation will last for seven years." It's all speculation derived from verses unrelated to the Revelation itself, or from verses in the Revelation that only speak of 3 1/2 years. If every instance of 3 1/2 years in the Revelation is pulled together and added together, you'd have at least 14 years, not seven. The closest anyone has gotten was the final "week" of Daniel 9, and there are significant interpretations that differ and still make sense.
                        Last edited by quiet dove; Mar 11th 2008, 06:48 PM. Reason: edited quoted material
                        To This Day

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by quiet dove View Post
                          I find this interesting, as all of Ezekiel. But what is this seven years? And if it happened already, when? If not, does it have any relevance in the seven year question of the tribulation?

                          Eze 39:9 "Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and bucklers, the bows and arrows, the javelins and spears; and they will make fires with them for seven years.


                          Personally I would think that verse occurs after the trib. The reason why is this.

                          Ezekiel 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
                          7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel


                          I don't see where verse 7 has come to pass yet. So if it hasn't been fullfilled, then that pretty much puts the rest of Ezekiel 39 as unfllfilled also. But when verse 7 is fullfilled, it will only be after the Lord has physically returned to the earth, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

                          Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
                          18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
                          19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
                          20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.


                          This apears to me to be describing the scene from Rev 19. Also, from reading Ez 38, we learn that the Lord's presense upon the earth is indeed physical. So we should be able to conclude that EZ 39:9 occurs after the trib, and after the Lord has already returned. At least that's what I can conclude. Someone else may not come to those same conclusions.

                          Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
                          18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
                          19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
                          20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
                          21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by quiet dove View Post
                            I find this interesting, as all of Ezekiel. But what is this seven years? And if it happened already, when? If not, does it have any relevance in the seven year question of the tribulation?

                            Eze 39:9 "Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and bucklers, the bows and arrows, the javelins and spears; and they will make fires with them for seven years.
                            Sounds like a 7 year period of ancient antiquity......

                            ....back in olden times when people fought with bows and arrows and chariots and spears.

                            Yes, it happened in ancient antiquity, sometime near the life of Ezekiel in the 500 B.C.s.....even if we are not conclusively sure of when exactly; we know it is from that era; when people fought with bows and arrows and chariots.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by divaD View Post
                              Personally I would think that verse occurs after the trib. The reason why is this.

                              Ezekiel 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.
                              7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel


                              I don't see where verse 7 has come to pass yet. So if it hasn't been fullfilled, then that pretty much puts the rest of Ezekiel 39 as unfllfilled also. But when verse 7 is fullfilled, it will only be after the Lord has physically returned to the earth, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

                              Ezekiel 39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
                              18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
                              19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
                              20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.


                              This apears to me to be describing the scene from Rev 19. Also, from reading Ez 38, we learn that the Lord's presense upon the earth is indeed physical. So we should be able to conclude that EZ 39:9 occurs after the trib, and after the Lord has already returned. At least that's what I can conclude. Someone else may not come to those same conclusions.

                              Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
                              18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
                              19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
                              20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
                              21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
                              I would say it either occurs before the trib begins or like you said, at Rev 19. My problem with Rev 19 is this statement:

                              Ezekiel 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

                              What is meant by carelessly? Is is security, safety, confidence, hope? That one word makes a lot of difference in how to take this because at Rev 19, things are going to be bad....BAD


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