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Does anyone use the Jewish Siddur(Prayer Book)

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  • Does anyone use the Jewish Siddur(Prayer Book)

    Does anyone on this forum use the Jewish Siddur(Prayer Book)? If yes, which one and why?

  • #2
    Originally posted by AUGUSTINIAN View Post
    Does anyone on this forum use the Jewish Siddur(Prayer Book)? If yes, which one and why?
    Why? What is it? Does it surpass the Psalms? Does it invoke the name of Jesus? ...just curious.
    ♪ Each day may Christ become clearer, His Cross dearer, Our Hope nearer. ♫

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    • #3
      Originally posted by crossnote View Post
      Why? What is it? Does it surpass the Psalms? Does it invoke the name of Jesus? ...just curious.
      ddu
      No, no production of man could ever surpass the Word of God. One uses a siddur the same way one uses a devotional like ""Our Daily Bread""------with caution. Naturally the siddur does not directly invoke the name of the Lord Jesus any more than the Psalms directly does, but both directly speak and prophesise of The Lord Jesus whenever they use the names YHWH, Adonai, LORD or the Anointed or the Son.

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      • #4
        I guess the next question is, why would anyone use a prayer book when Jesus explicitly taught against it?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BroRog View Post
          I guess the next question is, why would anyone use a prayer book when Jesus explicitly taught against it?
          That's interesting, please tell me more .

          DanM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by AUGUSTINIAN View Post
            Does anyone on this forum use the Jewish Siddur(Prayer Book)? If yes, which one and why?
            Not sure what you mean by which one ?
            Do you mean Ashkenazi,Sephardic ?
            Or do you mean weekdays and weekdays plus shabbat or including festivals?
            Or do you mean Artscroll,Singers etc. ?

            DanM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by danm View Post
              That's interesting, please tell me more .

              DanM.
              Jesus commanded his disciples to not pray with repetition as the pagans do.

              Matthew 6:7

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                Jesus commanded his disciples to not pray with repetition as the pagans do.

                Matthew 6:7
                Does this mean that the book is meaningless

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                  Jesus commanded his disciples to not pray with repetition as the pagans do.

                  Matthew 6:7
                  I think the emphasis here is on meaningless and heartless "vain repetition" and "babbling on" rather than on prayers or prayer books.

                  DanM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Victor View Post
                    Does this mean that the book is meaningless
                    I'm sure the prayer book has great meaning and remains inspirational. What is meaningless is the repetition of the prayer; it's an exercise in futility to keep praying the same prayer over and over again, Jesus says. The father hears you the first time, and in fact, he knows what you need before you ask.

                    Even the Lord's prayer was intended as a model prayer, not intended to be repeatedly prayed verbatim. The Lord's prayer is short but filled with content as if Jesus is saying, "these are the issues that should be on your heart when you come to the father."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by danm View Post
                      I think the emphasis here is on meaningless and heartless "vain repetition" and "babbling on" rather than on prayers or prayer books.

                      DanM.
                      The central issue is this, the pagans believed that God was a mysterious force in the universe that needed to be manipulated through various techniques if one wanted lots of crops, lots of children, and peace with neighbors. What makes repetitious prayer vain and/or futile is the fact that God is NOT a force that can be manipulated through technique.

                      We can use common sense with God because he is a rational being who cares deeply for us. He doesn't need to hear from us at all since he already knows what we need. And since Jesus became our propitiatory offering, we have nothing else to offer except our love and gratitude. And so, in some ways it wouldn't matter a bit if we never prayed again.

                      Nonetheless, we are spiritual beings with a need and desire to have an intimate relationship with our creator. And so if we naturally come to him in times of trouble or times of thanksgiving he hears our spontaneous petitions and prayers of gratitude, which have much more significance and meaning than simply mouthing the prayers from a prayer book.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                        Nonetheless, we are spiritual beings with a need and desire to have an intimate relationship with our creator. And so if we naturally come to him in times of trouble or times of thanksgiving he hears our spontaneous petitions and prayers of gratitude, which have much more significance and meaning than simply mouthing the prayers from a prayer book.
                        Yes,that's more or less what I said.

                        DanM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                          Jesus commanded his disciples to not pray with repetition as the pagans do.

                          Matthew 6:7

                          finish the verse... he says that they think they may be heard for their many words... they pray aloud in the streets to show people how righteous they are...

                          if you aren't supposed to repeat your prayers... then explain the Luke 18 parable and principle that Jesus taught us... that we should cry out to God for justice day and night... i'm sure that the entire bible has been prayed over and over and over again...

                          i find the more I pray something... repeat it in my closet or on a prayer set with my friends, the more my faith grows... I don't do it to show people anything the Pharisees did it to put on a show of righteousness to the people, they lived their lives to exalt themselves to have the places of honor because they knew the Scriptures and because they knew the scriptures they felt that's what entitled them to have their position of honor...

                          it's VAIN repetition... emphasis on VAIN
                          The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                            finish the verse... he says that they think they may be heard for their many words... they pray aloud in the streets to show people how righteous they are...

                            if you aren't supposed to repeat your prayers... then explain the Luke 18 parable and principle that Jesus taught us... that we should cry out to God for justice day and night... i'm sure that the entire bible has been prayed over and over and over again...

                            i find the more I pray something... repeat it in my closet or on a prayer set with my friends, the more my faith grows... I don't do it to show people anything the Pharisees did it to put on a show of righteousness to the people, they lived their lives to exalt themselves to have the places of honor because they knew the Scriptures and because they knew the scriptures they felt that's what entitled them to have their position of honor...

                            it's VAIN repetition... emphasis on VAIN
                            Repetition is what makes it vain.

                            I understand what you are saying about constantly returning to the Lord concerning the same subject. And I wouldn't disagree with you about that. My contention is that the Lord has something against repeating the same phrases over and over again, as one would do who is using a prayer book for example.

                            Paul asked three times that the Lord heal him of his infirmity, but after three times he simply stopped asking. Perhaps Paul thought that if God had not healed him after asking three times, he wasn't going to change his mind. But even in this case, Paul wasn't making his petition from a prayer book, I don't think.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BroRog View Post
                              Repetition is what makes it vain.

                              I understand what you are saying about constantly returning to the Lord concerning the same subject. And I wouldn't disagree with you about that. My contention is that the Lord has something against repeating the same phrases over and over again, as one would do who is using a prayer book for example.

                              Paul asked three times that the Lord heal him of his infirmity, but after three times he simply stopped asking. Perhaps Paul thought that if God had not healed him after asking three times, he wasn't going to change his mind. But even in this case, Paul wasn't making his petition from a prayer book, I don't think.
                              Then why does Psalm 90 end with prayer repeated twice? Establish the works of our hands?

                              Most of David's psalms have the same theme... Lord deliver me from my enemies let me see your salvation... Repetition is not vain in itself... because you would not have a prayer life at all if that were the case... have you ever said the same thing in a prayer before? have you ever said the same prayer more than once?

                              it's not the fact of repeating something back to God... We're to cry out day and night to God according to Luke 18, i'm sure that would require some repetition to some degree... a sincere heart who desires God will not ask for something once and fear...

                              have you ever wanted something as a child from your parents? did you not bug the mess out of them... often saying the same thing over and over again in the form of "Daddy, Please may I have that (name your object)". Did not the woman in the city where the unrighteous judge live come to him everyday saying "give me justice" was her repetition vain? No it was birthed out of a desire for justice. God commands that our prayers to him for justice be the same... if you read Luke 18:7-8 you will see that God will avenge those who cry out day and night...

                              So in essence... repetition is not vain, a sincere heart who desires God will not be so conscious or fearful of what man thinks of his prayers... a man who desires God will not care what man thinks of his prayers no matter how much he says them... a man who lives in the fear of man and what he thinks will give in to manipulation and fear and total insecurity and will have absolutely no confidence in his prayers no matter how many times he says them.

                              We so often look at what the Pharisees did and say we won't do that because that's what the religious look like and we base our entire relationship with God based on do's and don'ts and we become more religious than they ever were because we followed what a book said instead of coming to him who was the true source... For someone who doesn't know God the Bible is nothing but a list of dos and don'ts and it's the hardest thing for a man to do
                              The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

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