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  • Forgiveness?

    Today was a great day, as an unemployed soldier who considers himself to be a budding philosopher, I sit around and think deep thoughts about said unemployment.

    This changed almost immediately upon my fiances arrival. She came home and was upset, and I being the fairly okay person I am tried to comfort her. Then her mouth opened, her vocal chords began vibrating, and I'm now in a state of shock.

    Apparently, Saturday night she went out with a friend whom I know. Apparently, she was intoxicated enough that she couldn't drive (good call) but her friend decided to..let some other random friend "take care of her." Long story short, I have my fiance telling me she has cheated on me, etc and I need to go home, etc lots of crying from her.

    My typing is bad because my hands and right leg are shaking. At this point, she is talking to another friend of hers, whom is morally bankrupt (cheated on her deployed husband an uncountable number of times), and crying and whatever. I'm in the computer room with the door locked. I'm not angry at her per say because from her story it sounds like rape, but when I suggest thatshe insists it wasn't.

    I understand that we are supposd to be strong on forgiveness and things, but I'm not sure how to do this.

    Also, no lectures on pre-marital co-habitation/sex, I'm not interested and already know I'm wrong.

    *edit*

    Maybe this should go in a different forum, I wouldn't mind if females posted. Mods, any ideas?
    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death ye will find him;
    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him;
    "Land of Song!" said the warrior bard,
    "Tho' all the world betray thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!

  • #2
    I would prefer if your input was not deleted.

    Honestly, I don't know how to give my problems to God. My normal routine is to tackle things, then later give thinks for the strength to overcome. I have a base problem wiht praying in that I believe it is extortion on a deified scale. "Grant my wish or my faithshall lesson!" and so on.

    Heh, with the above being said, maybe this can go in Controversial Issues, eh?
    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death ye will find him;
    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him;
    "Land of Song!" said the warrior bard,
    "Tho' all the world betray thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Clavicula_Nox View Post
      I would prefer if your input was not deleted.

      Honestly, I don't know how to give my problems to God. My normal routine is to tackle things, then later give thinks for the strength to overcome. I have a base problem wiht praying in that I believe it is extortion on a deified scale. "Grant my wish or my faithshall lesson!" and so on.

      Heh, with the above being said, maybe this can go in Controversial Issues, eh?
      I hear you man... and struggle with the same prayer barrier. How dare I think of God as the great cosmic vending machine right? Well, there's nothing wrong with asking for things like strength, wisdom, discernment, and peace right? Its not like you're asking for a day off or a mulligan. When people say "put this before God" what they mean (I think) is "tell God you need His help".

      BTW... check your pm's man. I send you something a little more private.

      Comment


      • #4
        Please mov emy thread to Controversial issues. Thank you.
        The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
        In the ranks of death ye will find him;
        His father's sword he hath girded on,
        And his wild harp slung behind him;
        "Land of Song!" said the warrior bard,
        "Tho' all the world betray thee,
        One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
        One faithful harp shall praise thee!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Clavicula_Nox View Post
          I would prefer if your input was not deleted.

          Honestly, I don't know how to give my problems to God. My normal routine is to tackle things, then later give thinks for the strength to overcome. I have a base problem wiht praying in that I believe it is extortion on a deified scale. "Grant my wish or my faithshall lesson!" and so on.

          Heh, with the above being said, maybe this can go in Controversial Issues, eh?
          Well CN, sin can be forgiven and God's mercy is always greater than any sin we committ but sin has consequences that we cannot escape. It is God's discipline and he disciplines those he loves.

          You said not to talk about premarital sex or to discuss co-habitation. Do you think this has no consequence?

          Truly and honestly, she cheated on you. She had sexual relations with another person and she was free to do this because there was no covenant of marriage between the both of you. her free will mixed kin with booze led her to forget what you both had and she cheated on you.

          But this is not so much I am concerfend about. i am concerned tghat you feel that prayer is a useless exercise and in your own words you call it "extortion". No sir, it is not. It is required of us to pray for both thankfulness and for petition in rough situations. It is not extoration and God's answer is always the right one.

          As you move forward, I would suggest to forgive but to also change your life and how you live your life by including God in all aspects of life. To be reconcilied to Him and devote yourself to Him and develope a relationship with Him including the Word, prayer and community with otehr believers.

          As for your GF,I think time apart is good and if you are serious abut God you will do the right thing and no co-habitate with anyone until you are married and abstain from sexual relations. Honor God and He will bless you.
          Amazzin

          Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

          CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



          Comment


          • #6
            Considering I said I know I am wrong about co-habitation and sex, that should indicate I am aware of and responsible for consequences.

            Honestly, if we were married it still would have happened, and without any disrespect intended, I think your reasoning is thin and gives to much credit to marriage.

            As I explained to another in a PM, I have no problem with coming to God after I have overcome what obstacles have been placed before me. I don't think I need to ask Him for further help or to lessen my pain when He has already given me the tools. Part of a parents job is to equip their children with the tools to make their own way, and in this way I feel like I am a child of God. I would feel better knowing that when I make my report, I can have a beginning and an end, and part of that end is thanking God for giving me the strength required to overcome before the situation occurred.

            I don't go to church because I don't have time in my life for church politics and gossip, which is all I have experienced in different communities.
            The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
            In the ranks of death ye will find him;
            His father's sword he hath girded on,
            And his wild harp slung behind him;
            "Land of Song!" said the warrior bard,
            "Tho' all the world betray thee,
            One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
            One faithful harp shall praise thee!

            Comment


            • #7
              Clav,

              That's a tough one, man. But let me ask you a question, and I am being completely respectful of you here... You put reigns on us when you ask us to not 'lecture' you about co-habitation and sex. We are here to help you. One of the greatest gifts in my early walk was having guys tell me when I was doing something that was wrong. I rebelled against it and did not like it, writing them off as judgmental or whatever else, but what time has shown me was that they were just doing what God had called them to do and I am immensely grateful because of it. Did I like it at the time? NO. I hated it. But again, it showed me a lot of things.

              If you know the consequences, why still do it? That is my question.

              I believe, and this is just my opinion, but I believe that when we step out of the boundaries that God has set for us, especially in relationships, our blessings cease to come. That might not be true, but in my experience, I think that deserves some merit. I recall a passage where God just gives people over to their sinful desires, and it ends up destroying them and the things around them.

              I speak not of condemnation at all, brother. I speak of experience. I am not at all saying that this happened because you were living in a sinful relationship - that is not my place, nor would I go there. But I also believe the Lord will move in drastic measures if He chooses to, if our hearts are hardened to the point of engaging in willful sin. Again, please do not take this post as a slam, because it isn't by any means.

              I am sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear. But it is my hope that maybe something here I said stuck with you.

              I am praying for your situation... That God takes control and shows you His will through all of this.

              Comment


              • #8
                Clav,
                My current fiance cheated on me some time ago. We've been together for 4 years (almost, 4 in july).

                I can say that I have forgiven her, but to say that its not in the back of my mind (sometimes the front) everyday would be a lie.

                I have been through a lot with her, but I do love her alot.

                If you love her, get over it, if what she says is true then you need to be there for her and help her, man up and put aside the pissed off/jealousy etc. Help her make better choices and so on. But if you have reason to believe shes not telling you the story truthfully then maybe the outcome should be different.
                When a Gentile asked Hillel to teach him the entire Torah while he stood on one foot, Hillel replied, "What you dislike don't do to others-this is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary. Go and learn."


                "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. "
                - Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #9
                  Man, I can't even begin to imagine what you must be going through right now. I am most definitely praying for you. It sounds to me like the best thing for both of you right now is to move out and spend some time apart. You're running on high emotions right now, and you won't be able to properly get handle this while she's around. Spend some time apart, think about the relationship and what it means to you, and see if you can move forward or not.

                  In terms of prayer, keep this in mind: Before Jesus was crucified, He went before God and prayed. God grants us the tools to deal with these situations, but He can also grant you support as you go through them. Take care man, I will continue to pray for you.
                  We long to be known and we fear it like nothing else.
                  Most people live with subtle dread that one day,
                  they will be discovered for who they really are,
                  and the world will be appalled.
                  - Curtis, Brent and John Eldredge,
                  The Sacred Romance: Drawing Closer to the Heart of God


                  The joy is not in hiding, the joy is in being found.
                  - David Terry

                  My Testimony

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MikeDArmi View Post
                    Clav,
                    My current fiance cheated on me some time ago. We've been together for 4 years (almost, 4 in july).

                    I can say that I have forgiven her, but to say that its not in the back of my mind (sometimes the front) everyday would be a lie.

                    I have been through a lot with her, but I do love her alot.

                    If you love her, get over it, if what she says is true then you need to be there for her and help her, man up and put aside the pissed off/jealousy etc. Help her make better choices and so on. But if you have reason to believe shes not telling you the story truthfully then maybe the outcome should be different.
                    I have spoken with someone else who was present in the situation, and their stories match. I believe her, and I know that she feels terrible about herself. I am going to get over it, and go on.


                    @Thirst:

                    I know you're not being condemning, and I don't get anything expect a positive message from your post. The reason I asked to be without the "lectures," is that I don't need them, I know that I am in the wrong and being told I'm wrong while already knowing I'm wrong is just counter-productive and likely to make me somewhat defensive.

                    Why continue to do it? Co-habitation is because I simply have nowhere else to go, all of my friends are on month 6 of a 15 month deployment, and I have sent out over 300 applications to different jobs in the area with no results. The average pay here is $9.00/hr, and that won't cover rent on it's own. Sex is because I'm weak, in the situation, etc etc.

                    Thank you for writing, I do appreciate it.

                    @ Ibeaty

                    Yeah, we'll see. I will try to overcome what may be a pride issue and re-address the issue of prayer because there is always the chance that I am wrong. Thank you.
                    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
                    In the ranks of death ye will find him;
                    His father's sword he hath girded on,
                    And his wild harp slung behind him;
                    "Land of Song!" said the warrior bard,
                    "Tho' all the world betray thee,
                    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
                    One faithful harp shall praise thee!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Clavicula_Nox View Post
                      I know you're not being condemning, and I don't get anything expect a positive message from your post. The reason I asked to be without the "lectures," is that I don't need them, I know that I am in the wrong and being told I'm wrong while already knowing I'm wrong is just counter-productive and likely to make me somewhat defensive.
                      CN
                      This is a Christian web site and sin cannot go without addressing. If what we say about your sin is counter productive then you're going to hear more of it from us. Just because you don't want to go there is not reason to avoid the discussion on sin. Sin is eating you up and causing you to make irrational conclusions about your relationship with your GF.

                      As for becoming defensive that you p;rotecting sin. Rather than it breaking you, you are doing the opposite which means your pride is so high and mighty that your headed for a downward spiral. The bible say "Pride comes before destruction and a haughty spoirit before the fall". Youcan bet your last dollar where this is headed.
                      '
                      Amazzin

                      Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                      CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My brother, my friend,

                        UGH. Do us old soldiers ever draw a break?

                        Let me answer that. YES. God is good, my friend, and He loves you and He wants what is best for you.

                        God not only hears your prayers, He actually listens to them. You're a soldier, you know the difference between hearing and listening. It's a distinction that God is well-versed in, and our mediator, the Holy Spirit through Christ Jesus, brings before Him your heart in a very deep, very personal way. He knows our hurts, and you can be sure He is crying with you. She had an affair on Him as well as you, so God can and does relate. He feels exactly as you do.

                        My heart pours out to you, bro. I have had my knees buckle and the tears flow from the same thing, and it hurts, and it hurts bad and like no other hurt in the world.

                        But a lot of things in this life hurt, and He is faithful to comfort us. But you have to reach out to Him, bro, and that's prayer. If you lose your faith in prayer and just don't pray, how do you expect to communicate with Him, the great healer? He's not going to set before you a burning bush, but if you maintain your faith, He will return it by seeing you through this.

                        You know that I respect you and that I care about you - deeply. How many times have we talked in that regard?

                        Look for a PM from me, bro.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          from what you say she certainly does not sound like she was so drunk that she did not know what she was doing

                          you have indicated that she remembers what went on and with who

                          so if her brain function was still that good

                          how did she completly forget you for the duration

                          something you might want to ask yourself and think over before marriage

                          forgive her fine

                          marry her ??? you might want to really think on that one

                          sorry for the harshness guy


                          JESUS SON OF GOD IS MY LORD

                          All Things Are Possible

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If a Christian asks advice from others on a particular issue . . . sin should be the first thing that is dealt with. The fact of the matter is that the initial sin of sex before marriage/co-habitation or whatever you want to call it has now led to a struggle with another sin called unforgiveness. What other advice does one expect to get? Do you honestly expect God-fearing Christians to give you any other advice except to stop sinning? If blatant sin led to this current sin, how should one solve the situation? The only answer here, and the only one that is going to solve your current situation, is to stop the sinning. If the initial sin of both you and your girlfriend wasn't present you wouldn't be in this mess.
                            "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                            -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
                              If a Christian asks advice from others on a particular issue . . . sin should be the first thing that is dealt with. The fact of the matter is that the initial sin of sex before marriage/co-habitation of whatever you want to call it has now led to a struggle with another sin called unforgiveness. What other advice does one expect to get? Do you honestly expect God-fearing Christians to give you any other advice except to stop sinning? If blatant sin led to this current sin, how should one solve the situation? The only answer here, and the only one that is going to solve your current situation, is to stop the sinning. If the sin wasn't present you wouldn't be in this mess.
                              Amen...........and to repent before God and ask for His forgiveness
                              Amazzin

                              Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                              CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                              Comment

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