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  • What causes 2nd Coming

    I'd be interested in knowing the different views of what event, time period or whatever triggers the 2nd Coming, the Glorious Appearing. I'm not talking about the rapture in itself, but the return to earth by Jesus.

    I'll start.

    As a pre-tribber I think that what triggers Jesus return is the fulfillment of Hosea 5:15 "I will go [and] return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early."

    I also believe that this prophecy will be fulfilled by the Jewish nation at some point. I admit to not knowing exactly how this is accomplished, but I do believe it is the last day of the coming Daniel's 70th week.

    Thanks for any other ideas.
    Acts 17:11

  • #2
    I think the completion of the mission of evangelism coupled with the completion of the maturity of the church is what provokes the 2nd Coming.
    The Matthew Never Knew
    The Knew Kingdom

    Comment


    • #3
      What causes 2nd Coming?

      I believe that the Second Coming of Christ is pre-determined by God just as His First Coming was.

      Jesus said that the Father knew the day of His Second Coming way back when He walked the earth.


      Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


      Jesus will Come back when it is time. It will be the right time according to His sovereign will.


      Shirley

      Comment


      • #4
        I do not believe the Church will prepare the earth for His return, I do not believe Israel acknowledging her sin will bring Him either.

        As far as what triggers Christ Second Advent, I agree with what Shirley said. It will all be according to an already determined time frame, according to His sovereign will, just like His First Advent.


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        • #5
          I am to be convinced that the 'time' spoken of by Jesus refers to chronological time. I tend to think that Jesus will come when His bride is ready. Like Mathew I believe it will be when the church has matured, and is prepared for eternity.

          Lu 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.


          There will be 'last day Elijahs', used of God to help prepare a people for eternity. I believe this work is progressing now. But when it will be complete? Only God knows/
          Brakelite
          Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and
          rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

          Comment


          • #6
            The 2nd coming of Jesus together with His caught up saints, will commence when God cut short the furnace of affliction of the Great Tribulation. He cut it short for the sake of the 144,000 Israelites. They will come with weeping as they will see their Teacher, whom they pierced, coming in the clouds with power and great glory. Among the 144,000 are the lame and those expectant mothers. God will gather them from the four corners of the earth, from the four winds of the Earth, from Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, from Elam, Shinar, Hamath and from the Islands of the sea.

            Understand that the Great Tribulation is a great cosmic calamity where a super massive black hole will swallow everything up and dissolve everything with fervent heat. The constellation and the stars will not give off light, for nothing can escape a black hole, not even light. The earth will be completely devastated due to this event. The atmosphere will recede and oxygen level will fall. The earth will be shaken by enormous earthquakes and mountains and islands obliterated. There will be a devastating hail storm with each stone weighing a hundred pounds like stars falling from heaven to earth. So fearful was this plague that men cursed God for the severity of the hailstorm.

            Just like in Noah's time, the world was devastated with a flood. This time the whole universe and the earth will be burned up by fire. For God will not only shake the earth, but also heaven.

            If this event was allowed to take its full course, no one would survive, but for the sake of the 144,000 house of Jacob, God delayed this event. For God will forgive the remnant of Israel, the 144,000 Israelites. God will have compassion on His afflicted ones. For God's name sake He delayed His wrath, for the sake of His praises He held it back from the house of Jacob so as to not cut them off. God has refined them, though not as silver, God has tested them in the furnace of affliction. If God didn't spare the remnant of Jacob who was chosen according to the election of grace, they will suffer the same fate of Sodom and Gomorrah where they were burned by fire.


            God needed to discipline the Israelites, but only with justice, they will not go unpunished. For Israel is guilty of Idolatry. They were unfaithful to God.

            God will gather them one by one. Besides the 144,000 gathered, God will also gather still others with them. This "others" are those who came out of the Great Tribulation, they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. These are the "Multitudes in White Robes" from different nations, tribes, languages, and tongues.

            All in all, there are 3 stages of redemption. The first are the saints who were caught up in heaven at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. They were caught up and transformed into immortality. They will not go through the furnace of affliction of the Great Tribulation. The second, God will delay the event of the Great Tribulation to gather the 144,000 Jews who were afflicted for a moment. After this, God will gather the multitude who wash their robes and made them white.

            After this, the Wrath of the Lamb where the armies of the beast at Armageddon will be slaughtered by the Lord for all the atrocities they have done to the saints during the tribulation of those days, satan's war with the saints. Satan will greatly persecute the saints and behead them for they refuse to worship the beast and receive his marks. During these times, God will raise up the 2 witnesses to warn the world to repent of their idolatrous ways and to stop the atrocities they committed against the saints. They did not repent, and thus the 2 witnesses summoned the plagues which is written in the 7 plagues and the 7 trumpets.

            Understand that the plagues and trumpets are parallel events, each event revealing different angles of the event. There are one and the same. They can be explained thoroughly with scientific knowledge.

            Ex: Read and understand the 5th Trumpet and the 5th Plague. Bringing these two together, you will read a continues flow of the context:

            ”The Kingdom of the beast was darkened for the sun and the air were covered by the smoke of the pit. Out of the smoke, came locusts which have a sting of a scorpion. They were to hurt and torment men for five months. When it stings, men bit their tongues in agony and pain and they blasphemed God because of their pains and their sores caused by these creatures from the pit.”

            Understand, during satan's war with the saints, the Christian group who was greatly persecuted by the atrocities committed and meted death by beheading are characteristic of the Church of Smyrna. For God told them not to be afraid of what they are about to suffer and to be faithful even to the point of death for God will give them the crown of life. There is also another Christian group that escaped the atrocities. They are characteristics of the Philadelphia church where they have kept God's commandments to endure patiently. God will keep them from the hour of trial that is coming upon the whole world.

            The Smyrnian Christians are the front liners where they boldly preach the gospel under the enemies nose. They bore the testimony of Jesus as witness to their enemies. They were not afraid so as to shrink from death. They eat death for breakfast. The Philadelphian Christians are the ones who escaped the prosecutions. They are still able to preach the gospel to invite as many people as they can to the kingdom of God. These two characters of Christians will preach the gospel until the time of the end. The Smyrnian Christians will be persecuted until the number of them killed were completed and then the end will come - The Great Tribulation. God's vengeance on the evil deeds men has committed against the saints and those who did not repent.

            Understand that the Philadelphian Christians are the ones who are left alive. They will also be caught up in heaven to meet the Lord together with the Smyrnian Christians who were killed who were caught up first. All the saints were caught up at the start of the Great Tribulation. In heaven, they were told by God to enter to their rooms and to shut the doors until God's wrath has passed by. These rooms were prepared by God for His children for in His house there are many rooms.

            The rest of the 5 churches are those Christians who are in need of repentance.

            On the Wrath of the Lamb, the Great Tribulation continues. It was only delayed for the sake of the Israelites. The cosmic calamity continues and the Lamb will slaughter all His enemies and will command His transformed Saints to execute judgment upon all godless men for every evil deed they have committed. Not only they will experience the wrath of Lamb, but the calamity of the Great Tribulation, the great furnace of affliction.

            For every men will pay for his sin double.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Amitheone View Post
              The 2nd coming of Jesus together with His caught up saints, will commence when God cut short the furnace of affliction of the Great Tribulation. He cut it short for the sake of the 144,000 Israelites. They will come with weeping as they will see their Teacher, whom they pierced, coming in the clouds with power and great glory. Among the 144,000 are the lame and those expectant mothers. God will gather them from the four corners of the earth, from the four winds of the Earth, from Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, from Elam, Shinar, Hamath and from the Islands of the sea.

              Understand that the Great Tribulation is a great cosmic calamity where a super massive black hole will swallow everything up and dissolve everything with fervent heat. The constellation and the stars will not give off light, for nothing can escape a black hole, not even light. The earth will be completely devastated due to this event. The atmosphere will recede and oxygen level will fall. The earth will be shaken by enormous earthquakes and mountains and islands obliterated. There will be a devastating hail storm with each stone weighing a hundred pounds like stars falling from heaven to earth. So fearful was this plague that men cursed God for the severity of the hailstorm.

              Just like in Noah's time, the world was devastated with a flood. This time the whole universe and the earth will be burned up by fire. For God will not only shake the earth, but also heaven.

              If this event was allowed to take its full course, no one would survive, but for the sake of the 144,000 house of Jacob, God delayed this event. For God will forgive the remnant of Israel, the 144,000 Israelites. God will have compassion on His afflicted ones. For God's name sake He delayed His wrath, for the sake of His praises He held it back from the house of Jacob so as to not cut them off. God has refined them, though not as silver, God has tested them in the furnace of affliction. If God didn't spare the remnant of Jacob who was chosen according to the election of grace, they will suffer the same fate of Sodom and Gomorrah where they were burned by fire.

              God needed to discipline the Israelites, but only with justice, they will not go unpunished. For Israel is guilty of Idolatry. They were unfaithful to God.

              God will gather them one by one. Besides the 144,000 gathered, God will also gather still others with them. This "others" are those who came out of the Great Tribulation, they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. These are the "Multitudes in White Robes" from different nations, tribes, languages, and tongues.

              All in all, there are 3 stages of redemption. The first are the saints who were caught up in heaven at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. They were caught up and transformed into immortality. They will not go through the furnace of affliction of the Great Tribulation. The second, God will delay the event of the Great Tribulation to gather the 144,000 Jews who were afflicted for a moment. After this, God will gather the multitude who wash their robes and made them white.

              After this, the Wrath of the Lamb where the armies of the beast at Armageddon will be slaughtered by the Lord for all the atrocities they have done to the saints during the tribulation of those days, satan's war with the saints. Satan will greatly persecute the saints and behead them for they refuse to worship the beast and receive his marks. During these times, God will raise up the 2 witnesses to warn the world to repent of their idolatrous ways and to stop the atrocities they committed against the saints. They did not repent, and thus the 2 witnesses summoned the plagues which is written in the 7 plagues and the 7 trumpets.

              Understand that the plagues and trumpets are parallel events, each event revealing different angles of the event. There are one and the same. They can be explained thoroughly with scientific knowledge.

              Ex: Read and understand the 5th Trumpet and the 5th Plague. Bringing these two together, you will read a continues flow of the context:

              ”The Kingdom of the beast was darkened for the sun and the air were covered by the smoke of the pit. Out of the smoke, came locusts which have a sting of a scorpion. They were to hurt and torment men for five months. When it stings, men bit their tongues in agony and pain and they blasphemed God because of their pains and their sores caused by these creatures from the pit.”

              Understand, during satan's war with the saints, the Christian group who was greatly persecuted by the atrocities committed and meted death by beheading are characteristic of the Church of Smyrna. For God told them not to be afraid of what they are about to suffer and to be faithful even to the point of death for God will give them the crown of life. There is also another Christian group that escaped the atrocities. They are characteristics of the Philadelphia church where they have kept God's commandments to endure patiently. God will keep them from the hour of trial that is coming upon the whole world.

              The Smyrnian Christians are the front liners where they boldly preach the gospel under the enemies nose. They bore the testimony of Jesus as witness to their enemies. They were not afraid so as to shrink from death. They eat death for breakfast. The Philadelphian Christians are the ones who escaped the prosecutions. They are still able to preach the gospel to invite as many people as they can to the kingdom of God. These two characters of Christians will preach the gospel until the time of the end. The Smyrnian Christians will be persecuted until the number of them killed were completed and then the end will come - The Great Tribulation. God's vengeance on the evil deeds men has committed against the saints and those who did not repent.

              Understand that the Philadelphian Christians are the ones who are left alive. They will also be caught up in heaven to meet the Lord together with the Smyrnian Christians who were killed who were caught up first. All the saints were caught up at the start of the Great Tribulation. In heaven, they were told by God to enter to their rooms and to shut the doors until God's wrath has passed by. These rooms were prepared by God for His children for in His house there are many rooms.

              The rest of the 5 churches are those Christians who are in need of repentance.

              On the Wrath of the Lamb, the Great Tribulation continues. It was only delayed for the sake of the Israelites. The cosmic calamity continues and the Lamb will slaughter all His enemies and will command His transformed Saints to execute judgment upon all godless men for every evil deed they have committed. Not only they will experience the wrath of Lamb, but the calamity of the Great Tribulation, the great furnace of affliction.

              For every men will pay for his sin double.
              Unless I misunderstand what you wrote...

              The biggest question I have (for now) is, What does Modern-Day Israel have to do with piercing Jesus 2000 years ago?
              Revelation says that "Those who pierced him will see him", in the CONTEXT of the verses.
              There's no additional plan or punishment for "Israel- the nation".
              Hebrews 11:1 Now Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
              _______________________________________________
              There was a time when I used to think Macro-evolution might be a possibility..... but then I GREW UP!
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              Meike & I have the same birthday! Na-na na, na-na!!!

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              • #8
                Ephesians 4
                so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
                Christ will return when the body of Christ has matured, attaining the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. According to this verse, it seems to me, Christ is waiting for the QUALITY of the church to reach its completion.

                2 Peter 3
                You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.
                How can we speed its coming? It seems to me, from this verse, that we can speed the coming of the day of God by living holy and godly lives. Once again, the QUALITY of the church provokes the 2nd Coming.

                2 Peter 3
                The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
                The main reason, of course, for God's delaying His 2nd Coming is that He wants everyone to be saved. In other words, He's waiting for the QUANTITY of the church to grow.

                It seems to me that God is waiting for the ultimate balance of QUALITY & QUANTITY in the church. When this ultimate balance is finally reached, Christ will return.
                The Matthew Never Knew
                The Knew Kingdom

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by brakelite View Post
                  I tend to think that Jesus will come when His bride is ready. Like Mathew I believe it will be when the church has matured, and is prepared for eternity.
                  People keep being born and dieing, not living usually even 100 years though some do. Why will the last batch of folks have the Church mature enough for Christ to come back. Is the Church getting stronger, smarter, more obedient? Is the world getting better? How is the Church getting more mature and how does that thought harmonize with these verses:

                  2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

                  Now obviously the true believers will still endure sound doctrine, however, as a whole, within the professing church there are many who no longer have a foundation in sound doctrine

                  I mean what will signify or change the Church to be mature enough for Christ to return and what scriptures testify to that being the case?


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by matthew94 View Post
                    Christ will return when the body of Christ has matured, attaining the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. According to this verse, it seems to me, Christ is waiting for the QUALITY of the church to reach its completion.

                    How can we speed its coming? It seems to me, from this verse, that we can speed the coming of the day of God by living holy and godly lives. Once again, the QUALITY of the church provokes the 2nd Coming.

                    The main reason, of course, for God's delaying His 2nd Coming is that He wants everyone to be saved. In other words, He's waiting for the QUANTITY of the church to grow.

                    It seems to me that God is waiting for the ultimate balance of QUALITY & QUANTITY in the church. When this ultimate balance is finally reached, Christ will return.
                    So what you are saying is that believers are getting better and better as time goes on? That all this ecumenical togetherness is a good thing? How can it be a good thing if it is not founded in sound doctrine? Didn't many die in order to get back to sound doctrine, ...the Reformation?

                    Unity is worthless if it is not on the solid ground of solid doctrine and if we take a good look around we see unity taking priority, not sound doctrine.

                    What exactly will make the Church today or tomorrow so much better than the many many God fearing believers who have already gone home


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by quiet dove View Post
                      So what you are saying is that believers are getting better and better as time goes on? That all this ecumenical togetherness is a good thing? How can it be a good thing if it is not founded in sound doctrine? Didn't many die in order to get back to sound doctrine, ...the Reformation?

                      Unity is worthless if it is not on the solid ground of solid doctrine and if we take a good look around we see unity taking priority, not sound doctrine.

                      What exactly will make the Church today or tomorrow so much better than the many many God fearing believers who have already gone home
                      You seem to be making the mistake of speaking of the visible and invisible church synonymously, eh? The true (invisible) church can get better and better even while the institutional (visible) church gets more and more watered down. Some ecumenism is good (when it is based on the love of Christ and sound doctrine) while other ecumenism is bad (when it is based on unity at the expense of sound doctrine).

                      But, in truth, all I was saying was Scripture verses and then commenting on what they meant. What do you think of those verses? Were my comments incorrect?

                      In Christ,
                      matthew
                      The Matthew Never Knew
                      The Knew Kingdom

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by markdrums View Post
                        Unless I misunderstand what you wrote...

                        The biggest question I have (for now) is, What does Modern-Day Israel have to do with piercing Jesus 2000 years ago?
                        Revelation says that "Those who pierced him will see him", in the CONTEXT of the verses.
                        There's no additional plan or punishment for "Israel- the nation".
                        Never thought of this before exactly.
                        I know that He was before the court of the Jews and since He was pierced for the sins of all, in a way, we are all guilty of this.\
                        But historically was He not actually pierced by the Romans?
                        I have a Blog. Please visit!

                        My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

                        Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

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                        • #13
                          I'm really not sure of the verse you give but it appears that Armageddon and the armies being gathered there is what happens right before Jesus returns at the 2cd coming itself. So, what gathers them together? I know they come to fight against the Lord, but maybe they don't see it that way until they see Him on the horse coming from the clouds. If so, what it is, other than the Lord gathering them there, that compels them to come? Perhaps they come to attack Israel first until the Lord appears there?
                          I have a Blog. Please visit!

                          My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

                          Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by matthew94 View Post
                            You seem to be making the mistake of speaking of the visible and invisible church synonymously, eh? The true (invisible) church can get better and better even while the institutional (visible) church gets more and more watered down. Some ecumenism is good (when it is based on the love of Christ and sound doctrine) while other ecumenism is bad (when it is based on unity at the expense of sound doctrine).

                            But, in truth, all I was saying was Scripture verses and then commenting on what they meant. What do you think of those verses? Were my comments incorrect?

                            In Christ,
                            matthew

                            Why would the true church become better now or in the future than all the past true believers through out history though?

                            I do believe you are taking these verses (Eph 4) in the wrong way or shall I say to far. Believers need to be well grounded to not be tossed to and fro, and those well grounded will find unity in Truth, however, I disagree that we can hasten His return in that way, but no doubt, for us to be a united front would most certainly be a blessing. One can compare that blessing to what is found in a good church group, or say, even this board. The blessing of spending time with those in the Body of Christ.

                            In 2 Pet 3:4 I believe it teaches that the time that passes inbetween the promise of His return and His return will, to us be lengthy, cause many to doubt that He is truly going to return. I dont see this particular verse as supportive to your arguement.

                            In 2 Pet 3:12 I think to us the word hasten or hastening is misleading from what other scripture teaches. We are told to run a good race, diligent, eagerly. In searching the word that is translated hasten/hastening, it seems more a command to diligently and eagerly study and prepare for the day of His return. Not necessarily that we can "hasten" or "speed up" His return.

                            The thing is, through out the entire Bible it has always been Gods timing, not ours, the only thing we could or can do to change a plan(for lack of a better way of putting it) would be like when Israel was called to repentence. However, God also has let us know enough that we know there is a time table, a limit.
                            2Co 6:2 For He says: "IN AN ACCEPTABLE TIME I HAVE HEARD YOU, AND IN THE DAY OF SALVATION I HAVE HELPED YOU." Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
                            Rev 10:7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

                            Ecc 3:1 To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven:

                            I guess what I am trying to say is we should not dilly dally around about seeking His will and striving to live according to His will, we should diligently or hastily seek with every part or our being to learn and live according to His will, hastily seeking to be obedient and to know Him. There is a time to be born and a time to die, any one of us may be living at our last day which would be the last chance in this life we have to seek Him in love and obedience and to do His will. This would not equate to hastening His return but hastening our desire toward Him.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by quiet dove View Post
                              Why would the true church become better now or in the future than all the past true believers through out history though?
                              First of all, the true church INCLUDES the past true believers! Just b/c some have died doesn't mean they are no longer part of the church. In fact, you could argue that they are the strongest part!

                              But to answer your question very simply, the reason the church will become stronger is because Jesus is perfecting the church. He's working on the church. And so Paul said so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

                              I do believe you are taking these verses (Eph 4) in the wrong way or shall I say to far. Believers need to be well grounded to not be tossed to and fro, and those well grounded will find unity in Truth, however, I disagree that we can hasten His return in that way
                              Why not? I believe our Heavenly Father thinks of humanity as His child (as many biblical metaphors suggest). Additionally, we are said to be the BODY of Christ. If we are a child and/or a body, wouldn't our reaching MATURITY be a big deal in God's eyes? Wouldn't it be a key point in history?

                              In 2 Pet 3:4 I believe it teaches that the time that passes inbetween the promise of His return and His return will, to us be lengthy, cause many to doubt that He is truly going to return. I dont see this particular verse as supportive to your argument.
                              I didn't quote 3:4, though that is in the context. I did quote 3:9 which can't be debated. God, indeed, does not want anyone to perish. And that fact is clearly linked to why God is delaying: "He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish"

                              In 2 Pet 3:12 I think to us the word hasten or hastening is misleading from what other scripture teaches. We are told to run a good race, diligent, eagerly. In searching the word that is translated hasten/hastening, it seems more a command to diligently and eagerly study and prepare for the day of His return. Not necessarily that we can "hasten" or "speed up" His return.
                              First, what 'other Scriptures' are you referring to?
                              Second, it could be interpreted that way, but 'could' doesn't mean 'should.' And even if it should, you'd still have to explain away the biblical metaphors that are used for the church. A child grows to maturity. A body grows to maturity. A temple is built and, at some point, completed. This is the goal. God is waiting for it to come to pass. He is not passively waiting, but actively involved in the perfecting of this body, this temple.

                              The thing is, through out the entire Bible it has always been Gods timing, not ours, the only thing we could or can do to change a plan(for lack of a better way of putting it) would be like when Israel was called to repentence. However, God also has let us know enough that we know there is a time table, a limit.
                              2Co 6:2 For He says: "IN AN ACCEPTABLE TIME I HAVE HEARD YOU, AND IN THE DAY OF SALVATION I HAVE HELPED YOU." Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
                              Rev 10:7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
                              Nothing I said changes that fact. It is God's timing, not ours. God's timing, though, is when He sees that the church is fit, both qualitatively and quantitatively, as shown by His Word. We do not know when that time will be. It will be at the right time.

                              I guess what I am trying to say is we should not dilly dally around about seeking His will and striving to live according to His will, we should diligently or hastily seek with every part or our being to learn and live according to His will, hastily seeking to be obedient and to know Him. There is a time to be born and a time to die, any one of us may be living at our last day which would be the last chance in this life we have to seek Him in love and obedience and to do His will. This would not equate to hastening His return but hastening our desire toward Him.
                              Our application is the same. I agree. I just think our calling to do what you have just said has a bigger purpose.
                              The Matthew Never Knew
                              The Knew Kingdom

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