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John Hagee's new book saying Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah

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  • #1

    John Hagee's new book saying Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah

    A friend just showed me this video on youtube...the intent of this post is NOT to attack this preacher but to open it up for conversation. There are actually several things I would like to address on this video. First John Hagee, in this ad for his new book, is defending Israel and the Jews by saying most did not reject Jesus as the Messiah...then shortly after that says Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah in word or deed.

    This is not what the bible says:

    Matthew 1:1
    [ The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah ] The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

    John 4:24-26

    24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
    25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
    26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

    There are more of course...but he goes on to say the Jews can't be blamed for what was not offered to them.

    Your thoughts on that please?

    I would LIKE to just discuss this and not have it go like most posts go when a teacher or preacher's words are brought into question...first I believe we have the right TO question all that lead others spiritually...to heed the warnings Jesus gave us in watching out for false teachers and prophets, etc...but I also don't wish this to be taken as an attack on Hagee...I am not doing this to attack this man, but to try to understand why he is even saying this in the first place. I don't watch him and know little about him...but found this pretty shocking.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8khCJTDD44
    John Hagee Jesus NOT Messiah(audio|video perfect)



    God bless
    Last edited by moonglow; Mar 19th 2008, 03:01 AM.
    "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson
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  • #2
    I heard this a couple of months ago, he said on a TV interview "Jesus wasn't the Messiah" but I think he was referring to the Jews and it was taken out of context.

    As in regards to Jesus never saying he was the Messiah, as far as I know, thats true. He said "I am who you say I am" and "the son of Man" but never said he was the Messiah.

    I was always taught that he did this because it is truly faith that saves, him saying it could have taken away the faith aspect.
    When a Gentile asked Hillel to teach him the entire Torah while he stood on one foot, Hillel replied, "What you dislike don't do to others-this is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary. Go and learn."


    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. "
    - Mark Twain

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    • #3
      I thought he said it on his program - as best as I can remember, he said, "Jesus never said he was - others ( his accusors) said it!" Thats it, more or less...

      Actually, I thought I already read about this on a thread here - but, maybe not...
      Last edited by menJesus; Mar 18th 2008, 07:43 PM. Reason: sp
      Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

      Comment

      • #4
        He asked His disciples who they thought He was, and Peter said, "you are the Messiah..." And Jesus said that flesh and blood had not revealed this to Peter, but the Spirit of God.

        So technically, Jesus didn't say that He was the Messiah. And technically, He wasn't annointed by the High Priest with olive oil, and presented to the people as the King. (Though He did suffer at the garden of Gethsemane, which means "olive press" - more on this in another post perhaps.) And He was presented to the High Priest, and to secular authorities, etc.

        But although Jesus didn't say He was Messiah, He allowed it to be understood that He was the Messiah. So Hagee is picking nits, I think.
        Please could everyone pray for Mieke and Charles.

        My testimony http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthr...ight=testimony

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by menJesus View Post
          I thought he said it on his program - as best as I can remember, he said, "Jesus never said he was - others ( his accusors) said it!" Thats it, more or less...

          Actually, I thought I already read about this on a thread here - but, maybe not...
          You are right, did you ever hear him say what I heard? I seem to remember thinking it was out of context when I heard it. It wasn't on TBN it was a news network.

          In a similar not: There was a Jewish Philosopher that wrote in the 2nd century that non-Christians really couldn't be punished for not accepting Christ because such a very small percentange of the Human population ever actualy got the chance to make a choice (in his mind). He wrote that even when Jesus was alive, the majority of the Holy Land didn't meet him or witness his miracles. So only those who could really see his miracles could be held responsible by God for accepting or denying.

          Thats a terrible job of paraphrasing (im in a rush) just wanted to say that this speech has been going on since the death of Jesus.

          Christians have usually held that he never said he was the Messiah, and non-Christians have used that against us.
          When a Gentile asked Hillel to teach him the entire Torah while he stood on one foot, Hillel replied, "What you dislike don't do to others-this is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary. Go and learn."


          "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. "
          - Mark Twain

          Comment

          • #6
            Actually, John Hagee said "Jesus never said He was the messiah! He never claimed to be! His accusors said it - He didn`t say it!"

            I think he was trying to impact people with the way he was presenting it - John Hagee does that...

            And it WAS on TBN, as I do not have cable... and I have never, ever seen him on a local news program... but thank God, I can get TBN!
            Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by menJesus View Post
              Actually, John Hagee said "Jesus never said He was the messiah! He never claimed to be! His accusors said it - He didn`t say it!"

              I think he was trying to impact people with the way he was presenting it - John Hagee does that...

              And it WAS on TBN, as I do not have cable... and I have never, ever seen him on a local news program... but thank God, I can get TBN!
              No, no I know he said that, it was much publicized when he said it. But Im saying, when discussing his new book he was on either CNBC or headline news and the clip was "Jesus was not the Messiah." I knew, or at least I hoped, that his full sentence was something like "according to many ...Jesus was not the Messiah" or something like that, but on the news it was taken out of context. This sentence from him, has been much discussed in far right blogs/radio shows.
              When a Gentile asked Hillel to teach him the entire Torah while he stood on one foot, Hillel replied, "What you dislike don't do to others-this is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary. Go and learn."


              "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. "
              - Mark Twain

              Comment

              • #8
                No, I don`t have cable and cannot get any news stations except local ones. But I can imagine the negative feedback that came from that statement!

                Not that JH would care - he`s very outspoken, and I imagine he would enjoy a tussle here and there - hahaha... he`s from Texas, after all... I like the guy.
                Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

                Comment

                • #9
                  Did you guys watch that short video where he actually says Jesus was not the Messiah in word OR deed? And that its not the Jews fault they rejected Him because He never offered...the ad isn't broken up to use his words out of content. Everything he says goes against scriptures...so I am rather surprised people have no problems with it.

                  Jesus AGREED with others when they said He was the Messiah or the Son of God and He spend His whole ministry fulfilling the prophesies of the Messiah for the Jews...of reaching out to them..and while many did believe, many also didn't.

                  Think about this for a minute, why was He put to death in the first place?


                  I am just rather dumb founded that Hagee said what he said and thought maybe someone that watches him alot could shed some light on this.. this video sure doesn't make me want to watch him! I just figured there must be more to the story here or something...at least I would hope so.

                  God bless
                  "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by moonglow View Post
                    Did you guys watch that short video where he actually says Jesus was not the Messiah in word OR deed? And that its not the Jews fault they rejected Him because He never offered...the ad isn't broken up to use his words out of content. Everything he says goes against scriptures...so I am rather surprised people have no problems with it.

                    Jesus AGREED with others when they said He was the Messiah or the Son of God and He spend His whole ministry fulfilling the prophesies of the Messiah for the Jews...of reaching out to them..and while many did believe, many also didn't.

                    Think about this for a minute, why was He put to death in the first place?


                    I am just rather dumb founded that Hagee said what he said and thought maybe someone that watches him alot could shed some light on this.. this video sure doesn't make me want to watch him! I just figured there must be more to the story here or something...at least I would hope so.

                    God bless
                    Well, when I first heard him say it, I was angry but over time I figure I would give him the benifit of the doubt and hope he was taken out of context. There has been a lot of accusations thrown at him by radio hosts, such as Alex Jones, and I figured I wouldn't bring it up around here since I figured most people would be fans of his.

                    Edit: sorry, Moonglow I just now saw the link at the bottom of your original Post.

                    That video is pretty shocking!
                    When a Gentile asked Hillel to teach him the entire Torah while he stood on one foot, Hillel replied, "What you dislike don't do to others-this is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary. Go and learn."


                    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. "
                    - Mark Twain

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MikeDArmi View Post
                      Well, when I first heard him say it, I was angry but over time I figure I would give him the benifit of the doubt and hope he was taken out of context. There has been a lot of accusations thrown at him by radio hosts, such as Alex Jones, and I figured I wouldn't bring it up around here since I figured most people would be fans of his.

                      Edit: sorry, Moonglow I just now saw the link at the bottom of your original Post.

                      That video is pretty shocking!
                      I try not to be a big fan of any preacher actually..I think its too dangerous anymore. While I have some favorites on the Christian radio station I listen too, there are times I strongly disagree with the things they say...

                      Anyway I was wonder why no one was commenting on the video link I posted...I guess I put it too far down in my post...they said to be sure and put a description of it in there so I did! lol I will go back and bold it in red and maybe everyone will see it. I was wondering why people were just talking about what they heard on the news over this and not this actual ad he did that I posted.

                      God bless
                      "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Moonglow,
                        .. I went to youtube and viewed the clip there. When I was first converted I litterally consumed the scriptures and I watched John Hagee quite a bit. As time went along he made me more and more uncomfortable, I was studying the scriptures every day and the more I read the more I heard Mr. Hagee go out of context and on occasion he just jumped right off the ship into heresy, as he did in that clip.
                        .. I also restrain myself from doing the unChristian thing by going after him but I will steer no man in his direction. Lass, I believe your right on the mark in your distrust.

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                        • #13
                          I haven`t seen the video clip, nor will I. I do like John Hagee - when he preaches the Word, he`s great! But its like th1bill said - sometimes he takes things out of context... but rather than throw it all out, I have learned to tune out the more radical programs, and listen closely when he preaches the Word!

                          What else can I do? Most tv preachers are getting off-track in one way or another, nowadays... its really sad to see and hear...
                          Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Oh my, that's really shocking! Jesus was accepted by the disciples as Messiah, and never said, "no... you've got it wrong", but told them that the Spirit of God had revealed that truth.

                            Is Hagee saying that Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, were lying?

                            I agree that Jesus has yet to fulfill every Messianic prophecy - but if He's not the Messiah then why are we following Him? If I didn't think Jesus was the Messiah I'd be a Jew, not a Christian. I'm not sure, but I think a combination of sympathy with Israel (itself no sin) and spiritual pride have led Hagee right of into the deep dark bushes.

                            And there is some truth in what he's saying... Jesus had lots of followers among the Jews who loved Him, and it was a combination of interests between the powers that be that killed Him, not an entire people - unless you mean the entire human race.

                            But this is disturbing. I'm with Bill on this, if you read scripture a lot of what Hagee says is unnerving.
                            Please could everyone pray for Mieke and Charles.

                            My testimony http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthr...ight=testimony

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Daughter, thank you! I could not articulate my thoughts here...

                              John Hagee`s "sympathy with Israel" is certainly what is pulling him away from the plain preaching of the Word. Personally, I am praying that he goes back to the Bible-thumping, hell-fire and brimstone preacher that he used to be...
                              Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

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