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    The main reason I have never been a Christian is because I am gay..

    I recognise that the Bible clearly says it is wrong, but I have generally always just accepted that it is who I am and I can't change it. I don't believe that I chose to be this way, but I also don't believe that anyone is born gay. But I have always really wished that I was straight because it would be much easier, and if I were to become a Christian then I couldn't be gay anyway right? But how could I possibly "make" myself straight? I didn't choose to be gay, so how could I choose to be straight? I don't want to lie to myself about how I feel, and I can't help the fact that I have feelings for girls and not for guys (though, I have only actually ever had one male friend in my whole life).

    It doesn't help that for the past year and a half I have had a massive crush on a good friend of mine who is a Christian, and it makes me worry that maybe the only reason I've thought about becoming a Christian and started thinking I believe in God, etc, is because of her...which would clearly not be a good reason to do so. The attraction I have to her is most of the time not sexual though, I just want to be with her all the time and she's always on my mind...I'm always happy when I'm talking to her and then I get depressed as soon as she's not around. I've toyed with the idea of telling her, but I don't think it would be a good idea as I don't want to mess up our friendship.

    I've always wished I was straight, way before I started thinking about religion and believed that there was nothing wrong with being gay, because I just wanted to have a "normal" life, get married and have kids etc. But I don't want to lie to myself and deny who I really have feelings for. I really wish I could have feelings for a guy but it just doesn't seem that likely to me. I don't really know what to do about it all...

  • #2
    Originally posted by lwfc View Post
    The main reason I have never been a Christian is because I am gay..

    I recognise that the Bible clearly says it is wrong, but I have generally always just accepted that it is who I am and I can't change it. I don't believe that I chose to be this way, but I also don't believe that anyone is born gay. But I have always really wished that I was straight because it would be much easier, and if I were to become a Christian then I couldn't be gay anyway right? But how could I possibly "make" myself straight? I didn't choose to be gay, so how could I choose to be straight? I don't want to lie to myself about how I feel, and I can't help the fact that I have feelings for girls and not for guys (though, I have only actually ever had one male friend in my whole life).

    It doesn't help that for the past year and a half I have had a massive crush on a good friend of mine who is a Christian, and it makes me worry that maybe the only reason I've thought about becoming a Christian and started thinking I believe in God, etc, is because of her...which would clearly not be a good reason to do so. The attraction I have to her is most of the time not sexual though, I just want to be with her all the time and she's always on my mind...I'm always happy when I'm talking to her and then I get depressed as soon as she's not around. I've toyed with the idea of telling her, but I don't think it would be a good idea as I don't want to mess up our friendship.

    I've always wished I was straight, way before I started thinking about religion and believed that there was nothing wrong with being gay, because I just wanted to have a "normal" life, get married and have kids etc. But I don't want to lie to myself and deny who I really have feelings for. I really wish I could have feelings for a guy but it just doesn't seem that likely to me. I don't really know what to do about it all...
    You're an honest girl and that's pretty cool. I like that about you.

    I'm Chris, I'm twenty years old and I live in New York. I wanted to say something about your post... you're confused about your sexuality. As far as you know... you feel attracted to the same sex, but you say that you have had very little contact with males in your life. Healthy relationships with men is where your sexuality is naturally pointed, if you have never had any, you wouldn't KNOW if you were really attracted to men or not.

    Is it possible that you have been attracted to girls because (for some reason) the men in your life just weren't desirable?

    It's good that you feel some uneasiness about this situation, I encourage you to seek answers regarding your sexuality.

    You have also said that you were interested in exploring Christianity. That is wonderful and I am very happy to hear this. The best place to start, perhaps, would be The Bible. The first part is the story of God creating us, man choosing to turn away from God and God promising us (humanity) a chance to turn back to Him. The second part is the story of the fulfillment of the promise.

    This would be the best place to start to find answers. I would suggest reading The Gospel of Mark and Paul's Letter to the Romans in the New Testament. I urge you though, before you do this, ask God to reveal Himself to you. You can speak it or think it or whatever... but take a minute or two (literally) before you read it and Ask God to show you the truth.

    I will pray for you Laura.

    Christopher

    Comment


    • #3
      lwfc,

      Do you believe that a homosexual lifesyle is a sin in the eyes of God? I will tell you what I believe. As you said in your post, the Bible does say clearly that homosexuality is wrong, a sin. I do not take the Bible as just a book that says something is wrong or right, good or bad. There are probably books that say homosexuality is perfectly fine. What makes it wrong is the fact that God, in His Holiness and perfection, says it's wrong; it goes against His own being/character. Because He is holy and perfect, His word, the Bible, is truth. I will not say that homosexuality is a greater sin than any other sin, it is not. The point is that we must recongize our own sinfulness(breaking God's law, things contrary to His truths). Any sin, one or many, seperates us from God. God does not want us to be seperated from Him, so He provides us, through Jesus' death on the cross, a way to be united to Him. I'm going to say some things that may sound harsh, but I say them out of love. Salvation is a life or death choice. We cannot live one way and die another. God says "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish"( Luke 13:3). You can't do it in your own strength. "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed"(John 8:36)

      lwfc, Christ can reach you where you are. ref.Hebrews 7:25



      mjl
      Last edited by mjl; Mar 21st 2008, 03:44 AM. Reason: spelling

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by lwfc View Post
        The main reason I have never been a Christian is because I am gay..

        I recognise that the Bible clearly says it is wrong, but I have generally always just accepted that it is who I am and I can't change it. I don't believe that I chose to be this way, but I also don't believe that anyone is born gay. But I have always really wished that I was straight because it would be much easier, and if I were to become a Christian then I couldn't be gay anyway right? But how could I possibly "make" myself straight? I didn't choose to be gay, so how could I choose to be straight? I don't want to lie to myself about how I feel, and I can't help the fact that I have feelings for girls and not for guys (though, I have only actually ever had one male friend in my whole life).

        It doesn't help that for the past year and a half I have had a massive crush on a good friend of mine who is a Christian, and it makes me worry that maybe the only reason I've thought about becoming a Christian and started thinking I believe in God, etc, is because of her...which would clearly not be a good reason to do so. The attraction I have to her is most of the time not sexual though, I just want to be with her all the time and she's always on my mind...I'm always happy when I'm talking to her and then I get depressed as soon as she's not around. I've toyed with the idea of telling her, but I don't think it would be a good idea as I don't want to mess up our friendship.

        I've always wished I was straight, way before I started thinking about religion and believed that there was nothing wrong with being gay, because I just wanted to have a "normal" life, get married and have kids etc. But I don't want to lie to myself and deny who I really have feelings for. I really wish I could have feelings for a guy but it just doesn't seem that likely to me. I don't really know what to do about it all...
        Let me ask you a question, and please . . . give me an honest answer.

        Do you think guys are ugly? I know that sounds like a strange question, but seriously . . . are there no men that you believe are good looking?

        I will wait for your response before I go further.
        "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

        -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lwfc View Post
          The main reason I have never been a Christian is because I am gay..

          I recognise that the Bible clearly says it is wrong, but I have generally always just accepted that it is who I am and I can't change it. I don't believe that I chose to be this way, but I also don't believe that anyone is born gay. But I have always really wished that I was straight because it would be much easier, and if I were to become a Christian then I couldn't be gay anyway right? But how could I possibly "make" myself straight? I didn't choose to be gay, so how could I choose to be straight? I don't want to lie to myself about how I feel, and I can't help the fact that I have feelings for girls and not for guys (though, I have only actually ever had one male friend in my whole life).

          It doesn't help that for the past year and a half I have had a massive crush on a good friend of mine who is a Christian, and it makes me worry that maybe the only reason I've thought about becoming a Christian and started thinking I believe in God, etc, is because of her...which would clearly not be a good reason to do so. The attraction I have to her is most of the time not sexual though, I just want to be with her all the time and she's always on my mind...I'm always happy when I'm talking to her and then I get depressed as soon as she's not around. I've toyed with the idea of telling her, but I don't think it would be a good idea as I don't want to mess up our friendship.

          I've always wished I was straight, way before I started thinking about religion and believed that there was nothing wrong with being gay, because I just wanted to have a "normal" life, get married and have kids etc. But I don't want to lie to myself and deny who I really have feelings for. I really wish I could have feelings for a guy but it just doesn't seem that likely to me. I don't really know what to do about it all...
          Hi and welcome to the board!

          First I would like to ask you where do you live that you aren't ever around guys? That seems kind of odd. Or do you mean you just never became friends with a guy except for one? I didn't quite understand that part.

          The thing is with becoming a Christian..you don't change yourself...God changes you. Paul (from the bible) dealt with alot of people in his churches that had all sorts of different sexual activities going on, including homosexuals before they were saved. These people lived by the Romans who were pagans and it was common for them to indulge it any and all sorts of sexual stuff. Once they were truly saved, this type of behavior stopped, the desire stopped...something they could not do on their own.

          1 Corinthians 6
          11 There was a time when some of you were just like that, but now your sins have been washed away, and you have been set apart for God. You have been made right with God because of what the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God have done for you.



          Far too many people won't even consider coming to God because they have this idea they can't change...well many times they can't! Not on their own. Now I do know of one gay lady that is Christian that while those feelings have not felt her of still being gay, she does not engage in any type of homosexual activity so she doesn't sin against God. I am straight, I don't engage in any type of heterosexuality so I don't sin against God (I am not married). While I am still straight and she is still gay, neither of us sin in this area as the Lord has given us self control. The thing I notice about most gay people is they think they HAVE to be in a sexual relationship. Why is that? Why can't they just have relationships without the sexual part? I mean I have friends, both male and female and I don't feel like I HAVE to have sex with the men. I realize the very idea of living this way sound pretty horrible to most...but with the Holy Spirit its really no big deal. I have a very happy and fulfilling life.

          Just something to think about.

          God bless
          "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

          Comment


          • #6
            Well Hi and welcome,
            I think that it’s awesome that you're feeling a spiritual need, no matter what has led you there and I’m so glad that you’ve come here with your questions. Know this:
            Originally posted by John 3:16

            For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
            The world! All of us! Even bank robbers and axe murderers, because in the end we are all sinners and none of us deserve His love. He does anyway. So much that He became man to die Himself for our sins - that's just how He rolls!

            Whosoever believeth in him – not whosoever believeth in him and is straight or white or has the biggest bible and the shiniest shoes on Sunday. Whosoever.

            To my knowledge, there is no scripture which describes Jesus specifically condemning people for being gay, only immoral acts. So in my mind the fact that you are attracted to other members of the same sex is no more sinful then me being attracted to members of the opposite sex. It’s what we do with those feelings which potentially becomes sinful and that’s the same whether those sins manifest themselves from hetero or homo sexual attraction. Attraction is not sinful, but lust is sinful, sex outside of marriage is sinful and it is not His will that people of the same gender marry.

            I think like most of us were, when we were at the same point in our walk as you are, you might have your cart before your horse a little. You’re thinking “I can’t be a Christian because I am/have been sinful” when you should be thinking “I can’t stop my sinful behavior because I am not Christian.” Like others have said here; God makes the changes in your life all you have to do is let Him. Your focus right now should not be on I’m gay/I’m not gay it should be on finding Jesus (He’s right next to you by the way). Open your heart to Him and He will guide you.
            Originally posted by lwfc

            it makes me worry that maybe the only reason I've thought about becoming a Christian and started thinking I believe in God, etc, is because of her...which would clearly not be a good reason to do so.
            Honest, you can come to Him nekid and painted blue and He would still welcome you with open arms! He just digs it that you showed up!
            Originally posted by lwfc

            The attraction I have to her is most of the time not sexual though
            This I find curious. Have you considered that it is this woman’s relationship with Christ and the resultant effect in her life in which you are interested? Just wondering.

            God Bless you and I hope you will keep coming back.
            "The greatest single cause of atheism in the
            world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus
            with their lips then walk out the door and deny
            Him by their lifestyles. That is what
            an unbelieving world simply
            finds unbelievable."

            ~ Brennan Manning

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by renthead188 View Post
              I'm Chris, I'm twenty years old and I live in New York. I wanted to say something about your post... you're confused about your sexuality. As far as you know... you feel attracted to the same sex, but you say that you have had very little contact with males in your life. Healthy relationships with men is where your sexuality is naturally pointed, if you have never had any, you wouldn't KNOW if you were really attracted to men or not.

              Is it possible that you have been attracted to girls because (for some reason) the men in your life just weren't desirable?
              Yeah, I suppose that's possible. I mean, I don't know many guys that well at all and have just mostly been surrounded by girls so I suppose I could just be attracted to girls because I know them much better, and tend to feel uncomfortable around guys. I'd never really thought about it like that until I was talking about it with a friend of mine the other day, who pointed out that as I'm going to university in september I'll probably get to know more guys then and that would probably help me to work it out better..

              Originally posted by renthead188 View Post
              This would be the best place to start to find answers. I would suggest reading The Gospel of Mark and Paul's Letter to the Romans in the New Testament. I urge you though, before you do this, ask God to reveal Himself to you. You can speak it or think it or whatever... but take a minute or two (literally) before you read it and Ask God to show you the truth.
              Yeah, I already got some advice in another thread, and someone recommended that I start by reading Mark, so I read about half of it last night and I'll finish off reading the rest of it later..

              Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
              Let me ask you a question, and please . . . give me an honest answer.

              Do you think guys are ugly? I know that sounds like a strange question, but seriously . . . are there no men that you believe are good looking?

              I will wait for your response before I go further.
              No, I find some guys to be quite good looking, but I just feel uncomfortable around them. I don't generally find that I'm able to connect with them personally, and don't see how I can have a relationship with/be in love with a guy...but I have no problem with having those kinds of feelings towards girls.

              Originally posted by moonglow View Post
              First I would like to ask you where do you live that you aren't ever around guys? That seems kind of odd. Or do you mean you just never became friends with a guy except for one? I didn't quite understand that part.
              Well I've been at all girls schools since I was 6 and I don't really do a whole lot outside of school, so I've never really made friends with guys. I did have one good male friend who was pretty much my best friend for a while, but we don't speak so much any more, because he asked me out and I turned him down and it got a little bit awkward.

              Originally posted by moonglow View Post
              Far too many people won't even consider coming to God because they have this idea they can't change...well many times they can't! Not on their own. Now I do know of one gay lady that is Christian that while those feelings have not felt her of still being gay, she does not engage in any type of homosexual activity so she doesn't sin against God. I am straight, I don't engage in any type of heterosexuality so I don't sin against God (I am not married). While I am still straight and she is still gay, neither of us sin in this area as the Lord has given us self control. The thing I notice about most gay people is they think they HAVE to be in a sexual relationship. Why is that? Why can't they just have relationships without the sexual part? I mean I have friends, both male and female and I don't feel like I HAVE to have sex with the men. I realize the very idea of living this way sound pretty horrible to most...but with the Holy Spirit its really no big deal. I have a very happy and fulfilling life.
              I don't think you can say that about every gay person though..although there does seem to be a lot of promiscuity among gay people, which I don't like. I myself am definately not like that, I don't feel like I have to have sex with girls. I have had a sexual relationship with a girl, but it was about 2 and a half years ago now. In fact I've not even kissed a girl for about 2 years, so I am not sinning right now either then? I notice it with a lot of straight people I know though, some of my friends are always talking about sex with their boyfriends and personally I would want to wait a lot longer than they do anyway, whether it were with a girl or a boy...

              Originally posted by Gypsy View Post
              To my knowledge, there is no scripture which describes Jesus specifically condemning people for being gay, only immoral acts. So in my mind the fact that you are attracted to other members of the same sex is no more sinful then me being attracted to members of the opposite sex. It’s what we do with those feelings which potentially becomes sinful and that’s the same whether those sins manifest themselves from hetero or homo sexual attraction. Attraction is not sinful, but lust is sinful, sex outside of marriage is sinful and it is not His will that people of the same gender marry.
              Just out of curiosity, where is it in the Bible that it says sex out of marriage is a sin? And what is the difference between attraction and lust? Because surely you can't help having "lustful" feelings towards someone, but if you're not going to act on them anyway, why does it matter?

              Originally posted by Gypsy View Post
              This I find curious. Have you considered that it is this woman’s relationship with Christ and the resultant effect in her life in which you are interested? Just wondering.
              Yeah, I have and it could be. I mean I do find myself interested when she talks about religion, and she was probably the first person I considered talking to when I started to think about all of this stuff. But I don't know that it's only that, because while it's most of the time not a sexual attraction, it is at times..but mostly I just really like being around her. I dunno.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by lwfc View Post
                No, I find some guys to be quite good looking, but I just feel uncomfortable around them. I don't generally find that I'm able to connect with them personally, and don't see how I can have a relationship with/be in love with a guy...but I have no problem with having those kinds of feelings towards girls.
                So would you agree that your draw toward the same sex is not so much of a physical nature but of a formulated conclusion in your mind?
                "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally Posted by moonglow
                  Far too many people won't even consider coming to God because they have this idea they can't change...well many times they can't! Not on their own. Now I do know of one gay lady that is Christian that while those feelings have not felt her of still being gay, she does not engage in any type of homosexual activity so she doesn't sin against God. I am straight, I don't engage in any type of heterosexuality so I don't sin against God (I am not married). While I am still straight and she is still gay, neither of us sin in this area as the Lord has given us self control. The thing I notice about most gay people is they think they HAVE to be in a sexual relationship. Why is that? Why can't they just have relationships without the sexual part? I mean I have friends, both male and female and I don't feel like I HAVE to have sex with the men. I realize the very idea of living this way sound pretty horrible to most...but with the Holy Spirit its really no big deal. I have a very happy and fulfilling life.
                  I don't think you can say that about every gay person though..although there does seem to be a lot of promiscuity among gay people, which I don't like. I myself am definately not like that, I don't feel like I have to have sex with girls. I have had a sexual relationship with a girl, but it was about 2 and a half years ago now. In fact I've not even kissed a girl for about 2 years, so I am not sinning right now either then? I notice it with a lot of straight people I know though, some of my friends are always talking about sex with their boyfriends and personally I would want to wait a lot longer than they do anyway, whether it were with a girl or a boy...
                  Ok that explain alot. Sometimes I think parents go over board in trying to protect their children...by separating you from boys, probably to avoid early teenager sex and pregnancies, etc, its set you up for another situation I am sure they didn't intend! Of course you don't feel comfortable being around guys when you rarely are! Plus most teenagers and even young adults get uncomfortable around the opposite gender not because they aren't attracted to them but because of the fear of rejection.

                  One time I was watching a documentary on women in prison. Some had become involved in gay relationships while in prison though like one young lady said in it, I am not gay, I just needed someone to care about and someone to care about me but once I get out I don't plan on continuing in this lifestyle. Now she had been around guys and probably had some type of relationships with them...whether just friends or more. You haven't really even had that!

                  These women had no choice..they only had other women around them. In a way you have been in the same situation with school. Not really having the chance to be around other guys. In the teen years our bodies hormones bring up sexual feeling and attractions...if no one but other girls are around you, where is that going to be directed at? Them, of course. I really wish parents would not do this to their kids...it can create all sorts of problems. You might be gay and you might not be...its really hard to tell because you haven't been given the chance to really be around many guys.

                  Anyway every gay person I have ever encountered, even those that claim to be Christians seem to think they have to be in a sexual relationship...only a very few see it differently. Now I am NOT saying straights are any better! As you pointed out, there are plenty of straight people involved in sexual relationship. Far, far too many. I get frustrated with so many straight people that point fingers at the gay community when they are no better.

                  Anyway, no you aren't sinning in this area right now which is good. From our view point though (knowing the bible as we do) it says we are all sinners, we all fall short of God's glory. Meaning all of us have sinned. One sin separates us from God. This is why we need Jesus...He is like the bridge between us and God. Once we realize this, that He paid for our sins, and accept Him into our lives, we can ask the Lord to forgive us for our sins, and He wipes them away...He forgets about them. (God can't really forget anything, this is an expression in the bible) it simply means its over and done with and won't be held against you. Lets say for instance at age 15 you stole something..you were certainly old enough to know better. This is a sin you have to pay for yourself, unless you accept that Jesus paid for it for you. Ask for forgiveness and that debt is gone.

                  Hope that makes sense.

                  God bless
                  "People do not drift toward holiness. Apart from grace-driven effort, people do not gravitate toward godliness, prayer, obedience to Scripture, faith, and delight in the Lord. We drift toward compromise and call it tolerance; We drift toward disobedience and call it freedom; We drift toward superstition and call it faith. We cherish the indiscipline of lost self-control and call it relaxation; we slouch toward prayerlessness and delude ourselves into thinking we have escaped legalism; we slide toward godlessness and convince ourselves we have been liberated?" - D A Carson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi again,

                    To my knowledge (and maybe some of the more experienced Christians will correct me if I am wrong) the bible never specifically mentions homosexual marriage at all. It does however consistently hold that homosexual activity is a sin;
                    Originally posted by 1 Corinthians 6:9
                    9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
                    Originally posted by Romans 1:26-27

                    26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

                    27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
                    Originally posted by Leviticus 18:22;

                    22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
                    That marriage is an institution of God and meant to be between a man and a woman is made clear from Genesis.
                    Originally posted by Genesis 2:21-24

                    21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [a] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

                    23 The man said,
                    "This is now bone of my bones
                    and flesh of my flesh;
                    she shall be called 'woman,'
                    for she was taken out of man."

                    24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
                    and restated by Jesus:

                    Originally posted by Matthew 19:4-6

                    4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
                    Although, again in my view, the bible doesn’t specifically say that gay marriage is a sin, to approve of gay marriage would be to sanction behavior which the bible clearly states is sinful.

                    Lust and attraction; to me the difference is between that which is voluntary and that which is involuntary. Recognizing that another person is attractive to you is involuntary – if I’m at the market and turn the corner and see a pretty girl, I can’t say to myself “No, she’s not pretty” – she’s pretty – that’s not sinful, but now it becomes conscious and I begin to have the potential to sin. Do I continue to think about her, fanaticize about her, stare at her inappropriately, follow to the next isle to continue to look at her – sinful, because I’m choosing to do so and I know that it is against God’s will.

                    Not that I think it what you are doing, but let me just say up front because I’ve seen it a few times here when gay folks begin there walk – there simply are no scriptural loopholes wherein it is possible to be both actively gay and following His will. There simply isn’t. I’m sorry, because I know that would make it easier for you. But, what I can promise is that once you have open your heart to him, you will come to realize that it really doesn’t make that much difference – whether you’re gay, straight, seems so important now but the greatest pleasure you could ever derive from these things is nothing in comparison to the joy of knowing His love and far far less in comparison to the pleasure which awaits those who have accepted Jesus reward in heaven.

                    Gods Love.
                    "The greatest single cause of atheism in the
                    world today is Christians, who acknowledge Jesus
                    with their lips then walk out the door and deny
                    Him by their lifestyles. That is what
                    an unbelieving world simply
                    finds unbelievable."

                    ~ Brennan Manning

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Laura! Welcome!

                      I only read through a few posts, because I got a few things i would like to say.

                      First, if you don't mind my asking, what was your home life like? Was your dad around a lot? Or do you not know him?

                      Next, Jesus can work WONDERS in us, if we let Him. Like someone else said, we can't change by our own power, but we change by the power of Christ in us.

                      Meaning, if you accept Jesus into your heart, and you pray continually, and ESPECIALLY whenever you start feeling desires or having thoughts about another woman, to lift you free of this sin, He will heal you. It may not be BAM, over night, but have patience and keep praying.

                      Again like someone else said, homosexuality is not any greater of a sin than swearing or adultry. But it IS still a sin, and one that you need to bring before Jesus, and lay it at His feet.

                      I don't believe either, that people are born homosexual. I DO believe that is a choice, whether consciously or even subconsciously. Some people may not even be AWARE that they chose that. And still others, might be raised that way, and some just might not know any better.

                      The reason I, personally, don't believe that people are born homosexual, is because if they were, EVERYBODY would be a homosexual. That's just my personal opinion, though.

                      The difference between attraction and lust? I believe, that attraction is simply appreciating someone for their looks, or their personality. Lust is a strong physical attraction/wanting someone for their body. Appreciating their looks is far different from WANTING their looks. Does that make sense? And it does matter. God said that if you even LOOK at someone with lust in your heart, you have sinned.
                      Why are you looking for love
                      Why are you still searching as if I'm not enough
                      To where will you go child
                      Tell me where will you run
                      To where will you run


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                      • #12
                        I really think the biblical christian position needs posting in a simple form. There are 3 positions a person can take on homsexuality....


                        1. A person is gay/ lesbian incined but does not act on it.

                        2. A person is gay/ lesbian inclined knows it is sinful by bible teaching and still acts in a gay way, has gay relationships. BUT like any sin continues to try to stop/ over come that sin.

                        3. A person is gay/ lesbian inclined states the bible is wrong and has relationships.


                        Positions 1 & 2 are OK as a christian. Obviously position 3 is wrong and not christian. We all sin and homosexuality is just another sin, though many try to elevate it above most others. Love should be shown at all times to all people, homsexuals no different.
                        However a word of warning. This is NOT saying go ahead and do this sin and casually say i'm trying and failing, i'll keep trying. A celebate life or to form a normal hetrosexual marriage is the ideal.

                        I hope this helps everyone reading this, the topic comes around so often, it's any easy one to reply to - if not an easy one for those involved obviously. God bless, Servant of Truth.
                        1 Corinthians 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos: and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

                        Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptised in the name of Paul?

                        KJV

                        May the power of the Spirit of our God unite us. SofTy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
                          So would you agree that your draw toward the same sex is not so much of a physical nature but of a formulated conclusion in your mind?
                          I dunno, not completely, because I find girls physically attractive as well.

                          Originally posted by moonglow View Post
                          Ok that explain alot. Sometimes I think parents go over board in trying to protect their children...by separating you from boys, probably to avoid early teenager sex and pregnancies, etc, its set you up for another situation I am sure they didn't intend! Of course you don't feel comfortable being around guys when you rarely are! Plus most teenagers and even young adults get uncomfortable around the opposite gender not because they aren't attracted to them but because of the fear of rejection.
                          Actually, I chose the school, not my parents, so I suppose that's not their fault. Well I may not have had so much choice in the first one, but I had a big say in what secondary school I went to. But I can see how it might have an effect, but at the same time that doesn't quite add up as I'm pretty sure I'm the only lesbian in a year of about 150 girls (well, only "out" one anyway).

                          Originally posted by moonglow View Post
                          Anyway, no you aren't sinning in this area right now which is good. From our view point though (knowing the bible as we do) it says we are all sinners, we all fall short of God's glory. Meaning all of us have sinned. One sin separates us from God. This is why we need Jesus...He is like the bridge between us and God. Once we realize this, that He paid for our sins, and accept Him into our lives, we can ask the Lord to forgive us for our sins, and He wipes them away...He forgets about them. (God can't really forget anything, this is an expression in the bible) it simply means its over and done with and won't be held against you. Lets say for instance at age 15 you stole something..you were certainly old enough to know better. This is a sin you have to pay for yourself, unless you accept that Jesus paid for it for you. Ask for forgiveness and that debt is gone.

                          Hope that makes sense.
                          Yeah, that makes sense. What if I were to do that, but then end up acting on feelings for girls sometime again? Would He still forgive me that time, if I were trying to not act on it? Wouldn't it just be really hypocritical of me> I'm not saying I'm going to do that..just wondering.

                          Originally posted by Gypsy View Post
                          Lust and attraction; to me the difference is between that which is voluntary and that which is involuntary. Recognizing that another person is attractive to you is involuntary – if I’m at the market and turn the corner and see a pretty girl, I can’t say to myself “No, she’s not pretty” – she’s pretty – that’s not sinful, but now it becomes conscious and I begin to have the potential to sin. Do I continue to think about her, fanaticize about her, stare at her inappropriately, follow to the next isle to continue to look at her – sinful, because I’m choosing to do so and I know that it is against God’s will.
                          Hmm, I see what you're saying, but when I have sexual thoughts about a girl I don't really feel as if I chose to be thinking like that or that I can help it. If anything I don't want to be thinking about her like that because it just makes me upset but sometimes I get thoughts like that and can't seem to get rid of them?

                          Originally posted by aliveinchrist View Post
                          First, if you don't mind my asking, what was your home life like? Was your dad around a lot? Or do you not know him?
                          My parents got divorced when I was 7 but I went to stay with him every other weekend until I was 13. I don't see him so often now, but that's more down to us both being too lazy/busy to call each other. But my step dad has lived with us for nearly 10 years now I think.

                          Originally posted by aliveinchrist View Post
                          The difference between attraction and lust? I believe, that attraction is simply appreciating someone for their looks, or their personality. Lust is a strong physical attraction/wanting someone for their body. Appreciating their looks is far different from WANTING their looks. Does that make sense? And it does matter. God said that if you even LOOK at someone with lust in your heart, you have sinned.
                          But if it's something you do subconciously, without wanting to or meaning to, why is it a sin?

                          Originally posted by ServantofTruth View Post
                          However a word of warning. This is NOT saying go ahead and do this sin and casually say i'm trying and failing, i'll keep trying. A celebate life or to form a normal hetrosexual marriage is the ideal.
                          I'm not sure I understand...as long as someone is honestly trying to not act on feelings for the same sex then it's not so bad?

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                          • #14
                            I just wanted to say how proud I am of all of you and how you adress situations like this. I am in agreement with all of you regarding the help that you have given to this young lady. With friends that I have spoken with, homosexuality is one of the MOST difficult things to overcome. But Jesus delivers people from it as He does with so many things through the power of His love.
                            Here is where battles are won....


                            I Corinthians 10:13 (my verse for a while)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lwfc View Post
                              I dunno, not completely, because I find girls physically attractive as well.
                              I understand. However, I don't think you're seeing my point. I'm a guy. I think there are other guys who are good looking. It doesn't mean I'm practicing homosexuality to think people of the same sex are good looking. Any guy, if they are being totally honest with themselves, can and will say that they think there are other folks of the same sex who are physically good looking people. That doesn't make them someone who is practicing homosexuality though, correct? You see we have a concept in our society that says people are just homosexual and there is nothing they can do about. It's just the way they are. However, I don't believe this whatsoever. You see you are no different than anyone else when it comes to how you see other people physically. You can be honest with yourself and know that there are people of both the male and female sex that are good looking or physically attractive. However, this doesn't define homosexuality or mean that you are practicing homosexuality.

                              Homosexuality is a sexual relationship with a person of the same sexual origin. No duh . . . right? So, if it's not so much the physical part as can be evidenced by the truths above, what do you think it is?

                              I'll tell you what it is. You are currently allowing carnal desire and worldly lust to control your mind. This is what the Word of God says about unbelievers who are not born again by the Spirit of God . . .

                              Ephesians 4:17-24
                              This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
                              I don't say these things to offend you, so please don't misunderstand the intent. I'm simply informing you about why you currently feel as if you can't help but desire the same sex. You see desire is the problem here. You are currently just obeying the desire that is filling your carnal mind. You have a mind that is not renewed to the things of God. Another thing I will tell you, and you may not understand this whatsoever, but you are currently under the control of spiritual forces . . .

                              Ephesians 6:12
                              For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
                              Whether you realize it or not there are unseen spiritual forces all around that have influence on your daily life. These spiritual forces tempt you and lead you away from the things of God.

                              Ephesians 2:1-3
                              And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
                              You are currently being controlled by the spirit of this world who is contrary to all things that are of God. The spirit of this world will continue to lead you this way until you are no longer under his power. The only way not to be under this power is to be a child of God born again by His Spirit. Whether you understand this or not you are currently losing a spiritual battle over your mind. You are being controlled and manipulated by carnal desires of the flesh and unclean wickedness of this world. The only way for you to overcome this is to submit yourself to God and hand over all control to Him. You must surrender yourself in humility and acknowledge that you are a sinner in need of divine regeneration of God's Holy Spirit. The only way you can receive this is by believing on and accepting by faith the sacrifice given you by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is by God's grace that you can be saved, and only by faith in Jesus can you receive salvation. And I'm not just talking about salvation as far as heaven is concerned. I'm talking about salvation right now in your daily life. You see without this salvation and faith in the Son of God Jesus Christ you will never be able to overcome the carnal desires filling your mind right now. You will never be free from the bondage and chains of oppression brought on by this world. You will deal with heartache, depression, anxiety and every other ungodly thing that would afflict your soul. That's what walking according to the spirit of this world will do for you.

                              However, Jesus Christ has declared that through Him you shall be free. Through Him you have an opportunity to lay aside the baggage of this world and step into a relationship that no earthly relationship could ever equal. Your joy, your peace and your victory hinge on who you choose to serve. You can either serve the god of this world and reap destruction, or you can serve the Living God and reap blessing. You can bring your own death and demise through following the spirit of this world, or you can have life and life more abundantly by following the One who conquered every spiritual adversary that you will ever face. All you have to do is believe.

                              Joshua 24:15
                              And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”
                              Who are you going to serve, lwfc?
                              "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                              -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

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