Discussion Who's Children Are We Today????

[Firstfruits]

According to the following scriptures a child of God cannot sin, so if we do sin, until we have repented of that sin and it has been forgiven, who's children are? To whom do we belong?

1 John 3:6-10
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1 Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[crossnote]

Vincent's Word Studies is typical of the responses of many other commentators...in a nutshell.

1 John 3:6

Sinneth not. John does NOT teach that believers do not sin, but is speaking of a CHARACTER, a HABIT." Throughout the Epistle he deals with the ideal reality of life in God, in which the love of God and sin exclude each other as light and darkness.

[Firstfruits]

Vincent's Word Studies is typical of the responses of many other commentators...in a nutshell.

1 John 3:6

Sinneth not. John does NOT teach that believers do not sin, but is speaking of a CHARACTER, a HABIT." Throughout the Epistle he deals with the ideal reality of life in God, in which the love of God and sin exclude each other as light and darkness.

Only by not abiding in Christ will we sin, if we abide in Christ we will not sin.

1 John 3:6-10
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1 Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

So if we do sin, until we have repented of that sin and it has been forgiven, who's children are? To whom do we belong?

We cannot belong to both.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[blessedmommyuv3]

I agree with Crossnote.

Until we are glorified in heaven with our Savior, we will continue to sin. If we are His, we will not continue to wallow unrepentant in the same sins. But our Christians lives are a process of sanctification here on Earth. We do sin, and we will sin; however, once we are truly saved by Him, sin does not cause us to lose our salvation and become children of the devil until we repent again. He will keep us, and by His Holy Spirit we will persevere to the end.
Otherwise we would vacillate between being children of God and children of the Devil throughout each and every day. (Because I don't know about you, but I don't think many days I end the day sin-free as hard as I try.)
Praise God that is not the case!

Jen

[Firstfruits]

I agree with Crossnote.

Until we are glorified in heaven with our Savior, we will continue to sin. If we are His, we will not continue to wallow unrepentant in the same sins. But our Christians lives are a process of sanctification here on Earth. We do sin, and we will sin; however, once we are truly saved by Him, sin does not cause us to lose our salvation and become children of the devil until we repent again. He will keep us, and by His Holy Spirit we will persevere to the end.
Otherwise we would vacillate between being children of God and children of the Devil throughout each and every day. (Because I don't know about you, but I don't think many days I end the day sin-free as hard as I try.)
Praise God that is not the case!

Jen

If we say we abide in God and we sin the bible say that we lie and do not the truth.

1 Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

What you have said here is what the bible says;

Otherwise we would vacillate between being children of God and children of the Devil throughout each and every day.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

So who's children are we if we sin, according to that which is written?

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Vhayes]

First Fruits - are you children STILL your children when they misbehave? Or does their DNA change and you throw them out the door and tell them they belong to the worthless couple down the street?

[Firstfruits]

First Fruits - are you children STILL your children when they misbehave? Or does their DNA change and you throw them out the door and tell them they belong to the worthless couple down the street?

My children cannot be compared with the Chldren of God with regards to what is written.

1 Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

For us to have fellowship with God we cannot walk in dakrness/sin.

1 Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

This is what identifies as to wether or not we are children of God or of the devil;

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Righteousness or unrighteousness.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Zack702]

My children cannot be compared with the Chldren of God with regards to what is written.

1 Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

For us to have fellowship with God we cannot walk in dakrness/sin.

1 Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

This is what identifies as to wether or not we are children of God or of the devil;

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Righteousness or unrighteousness.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

Sin is the transgression of the law according to what is there written.

Then would this sin include keeping the Sabbath?

[Firstfruits]

Sin is the transgression of the law according to what is there written.

Then would this sin include keeping the Sabbath?

Not unless we are under the law of God given to Israel by God.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Firstfruits]

Abiding in Christ!!!!!

1 Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1 Jn 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

1 Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1 Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

1 Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Only by abiding in Christ can we say we are Children of God.

God bless you!

Firstfruits

[Zack702]

I agree only when faithfully following is it manifest as described by Paul the difference between good and evil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

It seams to me that verse nine is talking about Jesus.
And verse 10 is talking about everyone else.
And the root of the matter is unconditional love for the family of believers.
What do you think?

[logos7]

Firstfruits, I admire your zeal for God and His Word. That being said you might want to do a little study on the background and reason for John writing this first epistle. He was writing to defend the faith of Christ against the gnostics who had as one of their doctine the teaching that the flesh/material world was sinful so no need to keep it in check, they taught you could sin all you want, because the spirit being was above and serparated from sin, in other words these people believe they could sin in the flesh all they wanted and be pure/sinless in the spirit.
The Apostle John responsed to their being sinless in their spirit in I John 1:7-10:
7) But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all unrighteousness.
8) If we say that we have not sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.

To walk in the light one cannot commit sin willfully all the time, but one will sin. After the first chapter John then attacks their belief that they could commit sins in the flesh and be sinless in their spirit these are the verses you have presented.

For if we read this Book the way you are describing, John and the rest of the writers of the New Testament are in disagreement with each other.
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4)
"But if ye are led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." (Galatians 5:18)
Paul is preaching justification by faith pure and simple here. Not sinless perfection.

To be honest we as saints are not sinless, but in the eyes of God we are; not because we haven't sin, but because we have believed and called on Jesus to save us from our sins. "For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." II Corinthians 5:21 (see also I Corinthians 1:30-31) Praise God I'm righteous because of what Jesus did for me nearly 2000 years ago; all glory belongs to Christ.

To abide in Christ does not mean to be without sin, but to be sinless because of Him taking our sins. Paul wrote of his sinful state in Romans 7:15-25, he close by saying, "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." (v. 25) Read Romans 8 and see how Paul says law of the Spirit/or having the mind of the Spirit has set us free from the law of sin.

Firstfruits I praise God for another Christian who know the importance of the Love given us by the Spirit (Romans 5:5). But if we are sinless why did Peter write, "And above all these things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins." (I Peter 4:8 see also Proverbs 10:12) Just in case you don't know charity is the Old English word for love. So how can love cover a multitude of sins if we have no sin. Jesus did not say all men would know us by are sinlessness but by our love. "(34) A new commandment I give unto you. That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." The following scriptures tell us that if we love one another we have keep the law of Christ which He gave us when he died for us (Matthew 22:37-40; James 2:8-9; Galatians 5:14 just to name a few.)

"Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fufil the law of Christ." Galatians 6:2

I am a child of God because I received Jesus as my Saviour John 1:12; by being led by the Spirit, Romans 8:14-17. If I sin and don't repent I'm still a child of God but will be chastise see Hebrews 12:4-11, believe me I have been spank enough by God to know this passage is very true.

So if I sin and don't repent God doesn't reject me but subject me to His chastisement.

May the peace of God keep you firstfruit.

[Partaker of Christ]

If we say we abide in God and we sin the bible say that we lie and do not the truth.

1 Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

What you have said here is what the bible says;

Otherwise we would vacillate between being children of God and children of the Devil throughout each and every day.God bless you!

Firstfruits

Firstfruits!

This is talking about 'FELLOWSHIP', not 'KINSHIP'

We are still His children, but fellowship is (or could be) on hold.
This is not talking about if we comit A sin, but if we walk in darkeness.

Let me also say; that people who are trusting in themselves, and not in the finnished and keeping work of God through His Son Jesus Christ, are walking in darkness.

[notuptome]

Firstfruits!

This is talking about 'FELLOWSHIP', not 'KINSHIP'

We are still His children, but fellowship is (or could be) on hold.
This is not talking about if we comit A sin, but if we walk in darkeness.

Let me also say; that people who are trusting in themselves, and not in the finnished and keeping work of God through His Son Jesus Christ, are walking in darkness.

We need to distinguish between two separate events. The first is salvation the act of Christ cleansing us from all unrighteousness with His blood shed at Calvary. We believe on Him and are born anew with eternal spiritual life and are promised to live with Him forever.
The second event is sanctification which is something of a process. This is our new walk in life as a son of God. In our walk with the Lord we will sometimes err. As new born babes in Christ this process one that the Lord tends to continuously. Evidence Christ washing the feet of His disciples. When Peter objected and then asked to be washed from head to foot Jesus told Peter "He that is washed needeth not except to wash his feet, but is entirely clean; and ye are clean but not all of you." John 13:1-15
A set back in our sanctification is not the same as some suppose a loss of our eternal salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

[crossnote]

Perhaps our view of 'sin' is too low. If sin is missing the mark and if the mark is loving God with ALL our heart, ALL our mind, ALL our strength, and ALL our soul...ALL the time; AND loving our neighbor as ourselves ALL the time, then WHO does not sin? I think I will chose to rest (abide) in His law keeping in my stead ...instead.