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    Recently, a Dutch politician named Geert Wilders came with a movie called "Fitna". In this movie, he portrays Islam as a religion that seeks to destroy the very foundations of our democratic society.

    This sparks several questions: What does true Islam look like? What does the Quran truly say about terrorism? Is the sharia the ultimate expression of true islamic law?

    Your thoughts please.
    Who have I in heaven but You oh God? Besides You, I desire nothing here on earth. My heart and my flesh may fail me, but God will be the strength of my heart and my portion forever...as for me, the nearness of God is my good - Psalm 73:25-26, 28a

    Check out my new blog at pilgrimtozion.blogspot.com

  • #2
    Well, the problem in Islam today is twofold:

    First, Islam is being defined by the most radical of it's followers; and

    Second, whatever moderate Muslims do exist are allowing this to happen.

    IMHO.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Pilgrimtozion.
      I get a periodical called "The Berean Call", and the authors (Dave Hunt and T. A. McMann) portray Islam as a violent religion bent destroying anyone who refuses to convert. They cite verses from the Koran to prove their point, but after examining the passages surrounding those verses I feel the statements were taken out of context.

      In any case, nobody is going to listen to people who blow themselves up taking others along the way.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JesusisGod View Post
        In any case, nobody is going to listen to people who blow themselves up taking others along the way.
        Sigh. If only this were so.

        Islam is a fast-growing religion and the terrorist groups who blow people up have standing as member-states at the UN.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Fenris View Post
          Sigh. If only this were so.

          Islam is a fast-growing religion and the terrorist groups who blow people up have standing as member-states at the UN.
          Ha, the axe is being ground very sharp Fenris
          "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
          -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

          "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

          Watch This! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA - Christian Artist Lecrae

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Revinius View Post
            Ha, the axe is being ground very sharp Fenris
            Grinding an axe or not, Fenris speaks the truth on this matter...although I do think his first response was a bit of a cop-out
            http://cantankerouschristian.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              .....terrorist groups who blow people up have standing as member-states at the UN.
              Al-Qaeda has a UN seat?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Pilgrimtozion View Post
                Recently, a Dutch politician named Geert Wilders came with a movie called "Fitna". In this movie, he portrays Islam as a religion that seeks to destroy the very foundations of our democratic society.

                This sparks several questions: What does true Islam look like? What does the Quran truly say about terrorism? Is the sharia the ultimate expression of true islamic law?

                Your thoughts please.
                There are two active threads right now that will cover some of this.

                This one discusses Islamic eschatology
                http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=119458

                This one discusses what Islam thinks of Jesus, Christians and Jews
                http://bibleforums.org/showthread.php?t=120066
                In Christ,

                -- Rev

                “To preserve the government we must also preserve morals. Morality rests on religion; if you destroy the foundation, the superstructure must fall. When the public mind becomes vitiated and corrupt, laws are a nullity and constitutions are waste paper.” – Daniel Webster, 4th of July, 1800, Oration at Hanover, N.H.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JesusisGod View Post
                  Al-Qaeda has a UN seat?
                  Al-Qaeda isn't that large, and while it's a key player in the Jihad, it isn't the only one.

                  People need to learn how to talk about terrorism without defaulting to Al-Qaeda.
                  The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
                  In the ranks of death ye will find him;
                  His father's sword he hath girded on,
                  And his wild harp slung behind him;
                  "Land of Song!" said the warrior bard,
                  "Tho' all the world betray thee,
                  One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
                  One faithful harp shall praise thee!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pilgrimtozion View Post
                    Recently, a Dutch politician named Geert Wilders came with a movie called "Fitna". In this movie, he portrays Islam as a religion that seeks to destroy the very foundations of our democratic society.

                    This sparks several questions: What does true Islam look like? What does the Quran truly say about terrorism? Is the sharia the ultimate expression of true islamic law?

                    Your thoughts please.
                    Last year I decided to study Islam in earnest. By original goal was to understand if we were waging the so-called "war on terror" correctly. Conservatives would say Islam has been hijacked by a small number of radicals. Liberals would say it's just a law enforcement issue. Frankly I didn't trust either view.

                    So I read part of the Qur'an myself - the first 5 Suras, and skimmed some of the others. I read Muslim commentary from Muslim sites. I looked at several translations.

                    The Islamic worldview is very very different from Christianity. There is a strong sense of "us vs. them" all throughout the Qur'an, believers vs. non-believers. It is a paranoid worldview. All non-believers are out to destroy Islam. They are cursed by Allah and enemies of Allah. Especially the Jews and to a slightly lesser extent, the Christians.

                    They view the world as divided into two parts. The "House of Islam" containing all believers, and the "House of War" containing everyone else.

                    And while Jesus said to love your enemy, Muhammad said to smite your enemy.

                    Also it is important to understand that Islam is not a secular religion as we think of religions. It is an entire social and governmental structure. It is a political system as well as a religion. Sharia law governs all aspects of life. Separation of church ans state has no meaning in Islam.

                    In an Islamic state, believers and non-believers can only coexist when the non-believers are held in a state of subjugation, or Dhimmitude. Dhimmis are allowed to practice their religion but suffer a humiliating status. The idea is that as Muslims must be subjugated to Allah, non-believers must be subjugated to Muslims. (Sura 9:29 and many others). There is no concept of "equal rights".

                    Imagine for a moment if all Christians were fundamental fanatics, but obeyed the Bible and the Word of God. Would we become terrorists? No! Of course not. Violence is not what Jesus teaches. Even in the rare case of for example, someone attacking an abortion center, this is done against the word of God.

                    On the other hand if all Muslims were fundamental fanatics, this world would be engulfed in unimaginable violence.

                    Christians do not debate about how and when we should kill other people. Muslims do.
                    In Christ,

                    -- Rev

                    “To preserve the government we must also preserve morals. Morality rests on religion; if you destroy the foundation, the superstructure must fall. When the public mind becomes vitiated and corrupt, laws are a nullity and constitutions are waste paper.” – Daniel Webster, 4th of July, 1800, Oration at Hanover, N.H.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pilgrimtozion View Post
                      Recently, a Dutch politician named Geert Wilders came with a movie called "Fitna". In this movie, he portrays Islam as a religion that seeks to destroy the very foundations of our democratic society.

                      This sparks several questions: What does true Islam look like? What does the Quran truly say about terrorism? Is the sharia the ultimate expression of true islamic law?

                      Your thoughts please.

                      Islam "By the Book" is a very violent religion, esp towards those who are not Islamic.The thing to remember is that only 15 % of them go "By The Book" (Which 15% of a religion of 1 1/2 Billion is a pretty large number). True Islam as practiced by the Prophet himself is quite Bloody and (at least for the male) very "Pleasue fulfilling". Muhammed decreed that when he overtook an are, if the women were not married to a muslim, their marriages were null and his men could marry them, or sell them as slaves (after he went thru and took his pick of course). As he got more powerful he became more militant and bloodthursty. If he were alive today and in the west he would be regestered as a pedaphile for marrying a 5 year old girl and consumating the marriage when she was 9. Studying the man he is not someone I would want to follow in any way.
                      ὁ ̓Ιησοῦς κύριος

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Christians do not debate about how and when we should kill other people. Muslims do.
                        There is still a debate raging in Western countries (like the US and the UK) as to whether suicide bombing is moral or not. Sigh.

                        Islam is a fast-growing religion and the terrorist groups who blow people up have standing as member-states at the UN.
                        Could you clarify this statement?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pilgrimtozion View Post
                          Recently, a Dutch politician named Geert Wilders came with a movie called "Fitna". In this movie, he portrays Islam as a religion that seeks to destroy the very foundations of our democratic society.

                          This sparks several questions: What does true Islam look like? What does the Quran truly say about terrorism? Is the sharia the ultimate expression of true islamic law?

                          Your thoughts please.
                          Islam is no different than any other "world Religion". We must witness to it with as much passion and fervour as they do for the sake of Christ, His church ad His kingdom.

                          Islam is violent and its teaching is bent on world denomination for the sake of Allah in the name of Mohameed. Granted there are different sects each with its own interpretations of "violence" however, the theme of all "mankind being converted or referred to as infedels" can be interpreted as being forceful.

                          We Christians have also been as violent as Islam is today in past history through the Crusaders and early 1400 conversion of the "new world". Perhaos there is hope for Islam to become more docile but not in our life time because I beleive they are a component of the end times. They are Satan's tool in these modern times to inflict war and distruction on all who are infedels.

                          Sharia law will one day dominate even the western countries. US, Canad and Europe will bow down to its influence through the pressure of the UN. This law is a prelude to the anti-christ and the laws of the land before our Lord's final victory against evil and sin.
                          Amazzin

                          Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                          CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Revolvr View Post
                            Last year I decided to study Islam in earnest. By original goal was to understand if we were waging the so-called "war on terror" correctly. Conservatives would say Islam has been hijacked by a small number of radicals. Liberals would say it's just a law enforcement issue. Frankly I didn't trust either view.

                            So I read part of the Qur'an myself - the first 5 Suras, and skimmed some of the others. I read Muslim commentary from Muslim sites. I looked at several translations.

                            The Islamic worldview is very very different from Christianity. There is a strong sense of "us vs. them" all throughout the Qur'an, believers vs. non-believers. It is a paranoid worldview. All non-believers are out to destroy Islam. They are cursed by Allah and enemies of Allah. Especially the Jews and to a slightly lesser extent, the Christians.

                            They view the world as divided into two parts. The "House of Islam" containing all believers, and the "House of War" containing everyone else.

                            And while Jesus said to love your enemy, Muhammad said to smite your enemy.

                            Also it is important to understand that Islam is not a secular religion as we think of religions. It is an entire social and governmental structure. It is a political system as well as a religion. Sharia law governs all aspects of life. Separation of church ans state has no meaning in Islam.

                            In an Islamic state, believers and non-believers can only coexist when the non-believers are held in a state of subjugation, or Dhimmitude. Dhimmis are allowed to practice their religion but suffer a humiliating status. The idea is that as Muslims must be subjugated to Allah, non-believers must be subjugated to Muslims. (Sura 9:29 and many others). There is no concept of "equal rights".

                            Imagine for a moment if all Christians were fundamental fanatics, but obeyed the Bible and the Word of God. Would we become terrorists? No! Of course not. Violence is not what Jesus teaches. Even in the rare case of for example, someone attacking an abortion center, this is done against the word of God.

                            On the other hand if all Muslims were fundamental fanatics, this world would be engulfed in unimaginable violence.

                            Christians do not debate about how and when we should kill other people. Muslims do.
                            You will, possibly receive a fire storm of attacks for telling the truth but the truth you have told. I often try to get folks to just Google "164 verses Jihad" but they will not. People love to believe lies and often refuse to do the simplest research because they are so comfortable with the lie.

                            God bless.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by th1bill View Post
                              You will, possibly receive a fire storm of attacks for telling the truth but the truth you have told. I often try to get folks to just Google "164 verses Jihad" but they will not. People love to believe lies and often refuse to do the simplest research because they are so comfortable with the lie.

                              God bless.
                              2 Timothy 4:3-4
                              "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
                              -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

                              "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

                              Watch This! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyheJ480LYA - Christian Artist Lecrae

                              Comment

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