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  • I Need Expert Help and Knowledge Please

    I put this here so the whole world hopefully - lol - won`t respond to it. :::sigh:::

    I have a big, big problem, that has been ongoing, but it reached its peak today. And I need good, solid answers from qualified people, because I am just lost here...

    I have contacted a few pastors, 4 altogether as of today, about being baptised. And as of today, all 4 have more or less refused to baptise me unless I become a member of their church. Two of these churches are denominational, two are non-denominational.

    I was stunned when the first one said no, but I thought, well, I`ll find another one. But I can`t seem to find someone who is just willing to baptise me, without me having to join the church. And I don`t want to join any of these churches, because I am not sure of their doctrines - I just want a place to go and worship - and I want to be baptised...

    Now I know that my knowledge is very limited in most things, and those of you who know me know this, too. So what I need to know is this: are there things about pastors and churches and baptisms that I obviously don`t know and need to learn about? Do the churches do the baptisms from the business side of running the church? Or what?

    I am just shocked, now, really. I never gave it much thought before, but I always thought that ANY pastor would be willing to baptise ANYBODY who wanted to do this act as a public commitment to the Lord.

    So please, if I am way off-base here, someone please enlighten me. I cannot even adequately express how I feel about this... I feel like I have been pole-axed... and my main thought is this: how can the preachers refuse someone??? This seems so WRONG!
    Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

  • #2
    Originally posted by menJesus View Post
    I put this here so the whole world hopefully - lol - won`t respond to it. :::sigh:::

    I have a big, big problem, that has been ongoing, but it reached its peak today. And I need good, solid answers from qualified people, because I am just lost here...

    I have contacted a few pastors, 4 altogether as of today, about being baptised. And as of today, all 4 have more or less refused to baptise me unless I become a member of their church. Two of these churches are denominational, two are non-denominational.

    I was stunned when the first one said no, but I thought, well, I`ll find another one. But I can`t seem to find someone who is just willing to baptise me, without me having to join the church. And I don`t want to join any of these churches, because I am not sure of their doctrines - I just want a place to go and worship - and I want to be baptised...

    Now I know that my knowledge is very limited in most things, and those of you who know me know this, too. So what I need to know is this: are there things about pastors and churches and baptisms that I obviously don`t know and need to learn about? Do the churches do the baptisms from the business side of running the church? Or what?

    I am just shocked, now, really. I never gave it much thought before, but I always thought that ANY pastor would be willing to baptise ANYBODY who wanted to do this act as a public commitment to the Lord.

    So please, if I am way off-base here, someone please enlighten me. I cannot even adequately express how I feel about this... I feel like I have been pole-axed... and my main thought is this: how can the preachers refuse someone??? This seems so WRONG!

    Well one thing for sure, you sure did find out the Churches you would not choose to go to, for good reasonings too.

    I do not know what the element (or, "instrument") for the baptism you want is, but from the context, I assume the element is "water".

    FWIW, let me tell you, "commands / instructions" in Greek are in the "Imperative Mood". As far as the Greek Verb βαπτιζω (bap-tid-zo) goes, and its conjugations, there are none of the verb(s) from Christ in "Imperative Mood" (though it looks that way in the English). You already got the best, pure and highest baptism there is once you were "born from above" (John 3:3): the spiritual baptism "into His Name".

    Nonetheless, Baptism, or immersion, by/with water had come a bit of tradition for Christians, and that is what you seem to want to do, so my recommendation would be to decide where you like to congregate / assembly, (checking places out), and if things are right, then seek the baptism with water after you are seated in that place of worship;

    I was in my 3rd Church before I was ever immersed into water. My late uncle was baptized in water in a bathtub, which my dad and My late uncle's best friend partook in for him.

    Best wishes on this.
    "A text without context is a pretext."

    Comment


    • #3
      I can't speak for the rules of other churches, but in our church, we don't have formal membership, yet we have baptized people without requiring them to be members. Now, I know that in my previous church, they wanted a commitment to that church in order to be baptized into that congregation. I will say however, that was where I wanted to be to fellowship and to worship. For the most part, I believe that it depends on the church and there rules as to whether or not you have to be a member to be baptized. I hope that this was helpful and that you have a God-blessed day!!
      .......................John 3:16.........................

      My testimony:http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthread.php?t=112657I hope that it inspires one and all

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Clifton View Post
        Well one thing for sure, you sure did find out the Churches you would not choose to go to, for good reasonings too.

        I do not know what the element (or, "instrument") for the baptism you want is, but from the context, I assume the element is "water".

        FWIW, let me tell you, "commands / instructions" in Greek are in the "Imperative Mood". As far as the Greek Verb βαπτιζω (bap-tid-zo) goes, and its conjugations, there are none of the verb(s) from Christ in "Imperative Mood" (though it looks that way in the English). You already got the best, pure and highest baptism there is once you were "born from above" (John 3:3): the spiritual baptism "into His Name".

        Nonetheless, Baptism, or immersion, by/with water had come a bit of tradition for Christians, and that is what you seem to want to do, so my recommendation would be to decide where you like to congregate / assembly, (checking places out), and if things are right, then seek the baptism with water after you are seated in that place of worship;

        I was in my 3rd Church before I was ever immersed into water. My late uncle was baptized in water in a bathtub, which my dad and My late uncle's best friend partook in for him.

        Best wishes on this.

        You are right about one thing - I DO know where I WON`T go!

        Yes, water baptism is what I want... the Bible speaks of it, that we need to do it... what if I get run over and killed by a bus before I can get baptised? Will God hold that against me? If it is so necessary, why wouldn`t the pastors do it? And would God hold it against the pastors for denying me what I needed to make it into heaven???
        Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by baxpack7 View Post
          I can't speak for the rules of other churches, but in our church, we don't have formal membership, yet we have baptized people without requiring them to be members. Now, I know that in my previous church, they wanted a commitment to that church in order to be baptized into that congregation. I will say however, that was where I wanted to be to fellowship and to worship. For the most part, I believe that it depends on the church and there rules as to whether or not you have to be a member to be baptized. I hope that this was helpful and that you have a God-blessed day!!
          This is what disturbs me so - are the churches so in the flesh that they diminish the imortant things of God?

          Baptism, to me, is VERY important - I would think much more so than joining the church.

          Is gaining a tithe-paying member more important to the pastor of the church, than providing this essential act, to ensure someone`s making it into heaven???
          Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

          Comment


          • #6
            If you are saved and get run over by a bus without being baptized you will still go to heaven...

            I don't think it is surprising that a church would baptize and then have you become a member. We belong to churches to use the gifts that God gives us. If you are going to be obedient in baptism, then you would want to be obedient in using what He gives you to edify the church. I would suggest looking for a church that you would like to be a part of and then get baptized..and then....go to church.
            .................The message of the cross divides the human race." ~MW~

            ........ ... " LORD, I beseech thee, let now thine ear be attentive to the prayer of thy servant..."
            .................................................. .................................................. ...Nehemiah 1:11a



            Comment


            • #7
              How terribly sad this all makes me! I am feeling like I have to buy my way into the water...

              They are wanting me to become a member, begin paying tithes and all that, and THEN be baptised...

              And all I want, and have wanted for some months, is to give myself to the Lord in this manner NOW...
              Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by menJesus View Post
                How terribly sad this all makes me! I am feeling like I have to buy my way into the water...

                They are wanting me to become a member, begin paying tithes and all that, and THEN be baptised...

                And all I want, and have wanted for some months, is to give myself to the Lord in this manner NOW...
                Another Christian can baptize you, at home in your own bathtub. It does not have to be a pastor of a church. A pool or a hottub is good, as well, if you have access to one of those.

                Who is your nearest and dearest Christian friend?
                Blessings,

                Road Warrior


                Proverbs 4:23
                23 Guard your heart above all else,
                for it determines the course of your life.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Why do you want to be baptized if you don't want to go to church?
                  .................The message of the cross divides the human race." ~MW~

                  ........ ... " LORD, I beseech thee, let now thine ear be attentive to the prayer of thy servant..."
                  .................................................. .................................................. ...Nehemiah 1:11a



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RoadWarrior View Post
                    Another Christian can baptize you, at home in your own bathtub. It does not have to be a pastor of a church. A pool or a hottub is good, as well, if you have access to one of those.

                    Who is your nearest and dearest Christian friend?
                    Oooooh! Let me give this some thought - thank you!
                    Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Okay, why do you want a pastor to baptize you? Any believer can....
                      Amazzin

                      Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                      CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by karenoka27 View Post
                        Why do you want to be baptized if you don't want to go to church?
                        I don`t want to JOIN a church unless I know and agree with their doctrine. I think it would be false of me to join just long enough to get baptised...although I would like to...

                        The churches I spoke of want three months of classes before baptism but require me to join the church at the start of all this... how can I do this? it seems like the worst sort of hypocrisy to me...

                        How can I find out all their doctrine? "Join us and come to services!"

                        No, no, no... thanks, but no thanks...

                        This is so... I don`t even know what it is... it seems all messed up to me...
                        Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by amazzin View Post
                          Okay, why do you want a pastor to baptize you? Any believer can....
                          I thought I needed a pastor to do this...

                          You are a pastor, yes? Please explain this to me!
                          Last edited by menJesus; Mar 30th 2008, 10:07 PM. Reason: add
                          Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by menJesus View Post
                            I thought I needed a pastor to do this...

                            You are a pastor, yes? Please explain this to me!
                            A pastor has a responsibility to his church and must abide by the by-laws of either the church or denomination. Basically, many are bound to follow the process that's laid out for them in writing. It's not the pastors decision but many times the leadership above them

                            But nothing excludes brothers and sisters in Christ from baptizing. They are not bound by the by-laws and are free to baptize. But with baptism there is a responsibility. Thatis, to ensure the person being baptized is discipled and growing in Christ. This is why the by-laws are written.
                            Amazzin

                            Obedience to God is more than a soldier obeying his commander. It is our grateful response to the Lover of our souls.

                            CHURCH: Where worship is enjoyed, not endured - Grace is preached, not legalism - And Christ is exalted, not religion!



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by menJesus View Post
                              You are right about one thing - I DO know where I WON`T go!

                              Yes, water baptism is what I want... the Bible speaks of it, that we need to do it... what if I get run over and killed by a bus before I can get baptised?

                              You will be with The Lord
                              (and those here on Earth will envy you), just as if those whom called on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13) that were hanging on a cross, head under a guillotine with the blade about to come down, in the electric chair, going over the bank in their car, airplane going down, and any other point on the brink of death that called upon the name of the Lord.

                              Will God hold that against me?
                              Well, putting aside getting water poured over one's head, and you are referring to being submerged, I want to ask you: What about people in the past centuries that did not have bath water and bath tubs, and had to go to land water (river, etc.), and not to mention, had to wait for the warm season, or those that had no warm season at all thus could not participate in such?

                              And despite the growth of civilizations, this is still the case in some areas of the World. Thus, Christ, being whom He is, knew this, and how it will be for people of the Earth, and that is no doubt why he never commanded it. So, no, God would not hold it against you. Some people (and I am not one of them) are against water baptisms, because they feel it denies the saving grace of Christ, etc. etc. etc. and some people place the materialistic water over the spiritual immersions.

                              Nonetheless, since you wish to participate in it as a ceremonial rite and oath, perhaps you can do partake in it like my late Uncle did - in a bathtub, pool, etc. (and Jacuzzi would be cool , pardon the pun) and have one or more relatives and friends whom this "testimony" can be present to.

                              If it is so necessary, why wouldn't the pastors do it? And would God hold it against the pastors for denying me what I needed to make it into heaven???
                              Perhaps a higher power is restraining them because that probably know that it is commandment of men (a Latin-Roman constructed commandment to be precise), and you do not 'need' it to get into Heaven.

                              I favor it because Christ partook in it, and in memory of John The Immerser, which prepare The Way.

                              Can you have it done like my late uncle did, like a bathtub?

                              As for the Great Commission which some allude to, you can find it in the substantiated and undisputed texts of the following:
                              John 20:19-23
                              Luke 24:36-49

                              Luke was the more informative one, and provided additional information on The Great Commission - note his text is 14 verses long.

                              Blessings.
                              "A text without context is a pretext."

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