Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • question

    I have a few questions


    1) Is God capible of sinning?
    CAN He, but He just doesn't want to? or is it totally impossible for Him?


    2,a) Could God of made us perfect like Him with no desire to sin?

    2,b) could God of made us like Him in every way? as powerful as Him and as perfect as Him.

  • #2
    Hi B

    Originally posted by Bthings View Post
    I have a few questions


    1) Is God capible of sinning?
    CAN He, but He just doesn't want to? or is it totally impossible for Him?
    It is not possible. The reason is that sin is acting contrary to God's will. And God can't act contrary to His own will and nature.


    2,a) Could God of made us perfect like Him with no desire to sin?
    Yes He could have, but He gave us free will so that we could love Him freely rather than because we had no choice.

    2,b) could God of made us like Him in every way? as powerful as Him and as perfect as Him.
    We were made in His image. But God cannot make a duplicate of Himself, because He Himself is uncreated. He is self-existent, and it's not possible to create something that is self-existent. He created us in His image though, and gave us life.
    Love In Christ,
    Tanya






    Comment


    • #3
      with this.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bthings View Post
        I have a few questions


        1) Is God capible of sinning?
        CAN He, but He just doesn't want to? or is it totally impossible for Him?


        2,a) Could God of made us perfect like Him with no desire to sin?

        2,b) could God of made us like Him in every way? as powerful as Him and as perfect as Him.
        1) No, impossible
        2) This question is too loaded... To have no desire to sin is in effect the removal of free will. You could rephrase it, "Could God of made us perfect like Him with no desire to disobey"--it's the same thing. And yes He could have, but then we'd be robots...
        3) No, not logically possible.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
          Hi B
          hah HI

          Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
          It is not possible. The reason is that sin is acting contrary to God's will. And God can't act contrary to His own will and nature.
          What do you mean by His "will"? What He 'wants'?

          Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
          Yes He could have, but He gave us free will so that we could love Him freely rather than because we had no choice.
          God has free will and He doesn't sin, and He loves people. So is it possible for God to have created us like Him in the way He has no desire to sin?

          Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
          We were made in His image. But God cannot make a duplicate of Himself, because He Himself is uncreated. He is self-existent, and it's not possible to create something that is self-existent. He created us in His image though, and gave us life.
          Can't God just create an immortal being who can't sin, who loves everything that's good, and who can tell anything what to do and it will happen?
          I mean, isn't that what God is(as far as we can tell)?

          Comment


          • #6
            [quote=Bthings;1603274]hah HI


            What do you mean by His "will"? What He 'wants'?
            Well, sort of. What God 'wants' is His will, and God's will is what He 'wants.' God's will is His determination, purpose, wish, desire, that sort of thing. It is part of His nature. You might want to look up 'will' in the dictionary.



            God has free will doesn't sin, and He loves people. So is it possible for God to have created us like Him in the way He has no desire to sin?
            I don't know if there's much point in even asking that, because the fact is that He did create us with the choice of obeying or disobeying Him. He has a purpose in it. God made things in such a way that His nature and attributes would be manifested and known outside of Himself. For example, God is forgiving. If there was nothing to forgive, then that attribute would not be expressed or known. He is merciful. With nothing on which to have mercy, that attribute would not be manifested. So by creating things as they are, He manifests Himself fully.


            Can't God just create an immortal being who can't sin, who loves everything that's good, and who can tell anything what to do and it will happen?
            I mean, isn't that what God is(as far as we can tell)?
            God made man with the potential to sin because God is also Savior and Redeemer.
            Love In Christ,
            Tanya






            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
              Well, sort of. What God 'wants' is His will, and God's will is what He 'wants.' God's will is His determination, purpose, wish, desire, that sort of thing. It is part of His nature. You might want to look up 'will' in the dictionary.
              Okay then so
              why isn't God capable of sinning but just doesn't want to and so He won't ever do it?

              Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
              that, because the fact is I don't know if there's much point in even asking that He did create us with the choice of obeying or disobeying Him.
              Well i was just thinking, if God could of created us like Him with no desire to sin, then why didn't He?
              I mean, that doesn't seem very Just does it?

              Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
              He has a purpose in it. God made things in such a way that His nature and attributes would be manifested and known outside of Himself. For example, God is forgiving. If there was nothing to forgive, then that attribute would not be expressed or known. He is merciful. With nothing on which to have mercy, that attribute would not be manifested. So by creating things as they are, He manifests Himself fully.
              Why do ALL of His attributes need to be expressed or known? Why does He need to be manifested fully?

              Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
              God made man with the potential to sin because God is also Savior and Redeemer.
              Wait, I don't get it, God made man to need saving just so that He could save him?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bthings View Post
                Okay then so
                why isn't God capable of sinning but just doesn't want to and so He won't ever do it?
                ? He isn't capable of sinning. Sin is contrary to God's will, and that makes no sense for God to do something against His own will.



                Well i was just thinking, if God could of created us like Him with no desire to sin, then why didn't He?
                I mean, that doesn't seem very Just does it?
                Maybe just go back and re-read what I wrote before. I already answered this God made things this way on purpose to manifest His attributes.



                Why do ALL of His attributes need to be expressed or known? Why does He need to be manifested fully?
                Why shouldn't He? If that's what He wants to do, then why shouldn't He do that? He's God.



                Wait, I don't get it, God made man to need saving just so that He could save him?
                Yeah, I think so.
                Love In Christ,
                Tanya






                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                  He isn't capable of sinning. Sin is contrary to God's will, and that makes no sense for God to do something against His own will.
                  Right, He doesn't want to sin, but that doesn't mean that He's not 'capable' of sinning.
                  It's like, I am capable of eating mint ice cream, but I don't want to and I never have before, but I still could eat it IF I wanted to, right?
                  Just 'cause you don't want to do something doesn't mean you can't, right?

                  Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                  Why shouldn't He? If that's what He wants to do, then why shouldn't He do that? He's God.
                  Of course He can do whatever He wants with all the power He has. If I had all that power I'd do lots of stuff I wanted to too.

                  But that's not what this is about, I asked why do they NEED to be expressed or known, Why does He NEED to be manifested fully.

                  something's just not right to me. He wants people to know just how merciful He is, by setting them up to sin and so they deserve a punishment, But now He can show just how merciful He is by not punishing them. Is that right?

                  Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                  Wait, I don't get it, God made man to need saving just so that He could save him?
                  Yeah, I think so.
                  But that just sounds so wrong.

                  I mean, you put someone in danger just so you can show what a good guy you are by saving them, doesn't that just sound wrong? I mean sure you saved them, but you also put them in danger, so wouldn't you be wrong to put them in danger in the first place?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bthings View Post
                    Right, He doesn't want to sin, but that doesn't mean that He's not 'capable' of sinning.
                    It's like, I am capable of eating mint ice cream, but I don't want to and I never have before, but I still could eat it IF I wanted to, right?
                    Just 'cause you don't want to do something doesn't mean you can't, right?
                    In this case it is not possible, because it is not in God's character or nature to sin. You can't fly on your own power because it is not your nature to fly. God can't sin because it is not His nature to do what is contrary to His own will. He can't offend Himself.


                    But that's not what this is about, I asked why do they NEED to be expressed or known, Why does He NEED to be manifested fully.
                    I don't know if it's a matter of NEED or if it's a matter of course that God will be fully manifested because it is God's nature to manifest Himself.

                    something's just not right to me. He wants people to know just how merciful He is, by setting them up to sin and so they deserve a punishment, But now He can show just how merciful He is by not punishing them. Is that right?
                    Man was given the choice and commanded to obey so he wasn't 'set up' by God. If you dislike it that's your choice too. But you haven't been 'set up' by God to reject Him.


                    I mean, you put someone in danger just so you can show what a good guy you are by saving them, doesn't that just sound wrong? I mean sure you saved them, but you also put them in danger, so wouldn't you be wrong to put them in danger in the first place?
                    God didn't put man in danger. God put man in a perfect environment and gave him one law. Man chose to disobey that law and put himself in danger. Your dislike of how God chose to create things doesn't make it wrong. You're essentially saying that God is the bad guy because He gave you the choice to obey or disobey Him. That is not an evil thing.

                    Why do you not like having the choice?
                    Love In Christ,
                    Tanya






                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                      In this case it is not possible, because it is not in God's character or nature to sin. You can't fly on your own power because it is not your nature to fly. God can't sin because it is not His nature to do what is contrary to His own will. He can't offend Himself.
                      Okay, that makes sense. thanks

                      Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                      I don't know if it's a matter of NEED or if it's a matter of course that God will be fully manifested because it is God's nature to manifest Himself.
                      So He will manifest Himself at the cost of other people's lives and unhappiness??

                      Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                      Man was given the choice and commanded to obey so he wasn't 'set up' by God. If you dislike it that's your choice too. But you haven't been 'set up' by God to reject Him.
                      I didn't mean 'set up' to reject Him, I meant 'set up' to sin. God created us with the desire to sin (we already established that He could of created us with no desire to sin), and then He will send us to hell if we don't accept Him. Now life would be fine if everyone would just accept Him, but we shouldn't have to accept Him because He shouldn't punish us for doing what He created us to do. does that make sense?


                      Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                      God didn't put man in danger. God put man in a perfect environment and gave him one law. Man chose to disobey that law and put himself in danger.
                      Man never would of broken that Law if God hadn't created Him with the desire to sin.

                      Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                      Your dislike of how God chose to create things doesn't make it wrong. You're essentially saying that God is the bad guy because He gave you the choice to obey or disobey Him. That is not an evil thing.
                      My dislike has nothing to do with it. I'm essentially saying that God is the bad guy because He created us with the desire to sin, and then gave us the choice to obey or disobey Him.

                      Originally posted by TanyaP View Post
                      Why do you not like having the choice?
                      What's my choice? If it's to accept God or not, then I will accept God as much as I can (to avoid hell) But I just can't agree with His ways/motives.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
                        1) No, impossible
                        fair enough.

                        Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
                        2) This question is too loaded... To have no desire to sin is in effect the removal of free will. You could rephrase it, "Could God of made us perfect like Him with no desire to disobey"--it's the same thing. And yes He could have, but then we'd be robots...
                        But to sin would be disobeying God, to disobey God would be a sin. Sin=disobey, no?

                        Also, if God has free will but has no desire to sin, then why can't we have free will and have no desire to sin?

                        Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
                        3) No, not logically possible.
                        Why not? If God is all powerful why can't He create an equally powerful being?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bthings View Post
                          But to sin would be disobeying God, to disobey God would be a sin. Sin=disobey God, no?
                          I'm pretty sure that's what I said...

                          Originally posted by Bthings View Post
                          Also, if God has free will but has no desire to sin, then why can't we have free will and have no desire to sin?
                          Because we aren't God. Removing the desire is impeding on our ability to freely make choices. If you can't make the choice to go against, you aren't really free.

                          Originally posted by Bthings View Post
                          Why not? If God is all powerful why can't He create an equally powerful being?
                          No, because that equally powerful thing would have to be eternal as well, and it could never be.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
                            I'm pretty sure that's what I said...
                            oh okay, lol. i thought you said that my question was too loaded because I used the word 'sin' instead of 'disobey'.

                            Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
                            Because we aren't God. Removing the desire is impeding on our ability to freely make choices. If you can't make the choice to go against, you aren't really free.
                            Why can't we just have the desire to good instead of sin? We would still have a choice, but we wouldn't want to sin, so we most likely wouldn't.

                            Also, How is that God has free will if He has no desire to sin yet we won't have free will unless we us have a desire to sin?
                            Why can't we be like God?

                            Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
                            No, because that equally powerful thing would have to be eternal as well, and it could never be.
                            Couldn't God just create a very powerful being that got created?
                            How does being created make it any least powerful?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bthings View Post
                              Why can't we just have the desire to good instead of sin? We would still have a choice, but we wouldn't want to sin, so we most likely wouldn't.
                              It's more a problem of semantics. In other words you're asking is, "Why can't we just have the desire not to disobey God instead of disobey God?' The second part then wouldn't make sense, we wouldn't have a choice.

                              Originally posted by Bthings View Post
                              Also, How is that God has free will if He has no desire to sin yet we won't have free will unless we us have a desire to sin?
                              Why can't we be like God?
                              Because He's God and we're not? There's really not much more too it than that.

                              Originally posted by Bthings View Post
                              Couldn't God just create a very powerful being that got created?
                              How does being created make it any least powerful?
                              Once again you asked if God could make us like him in every way. No, not logically possible.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X