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  • Law... or Life?

    1 Blessed are the undefiled in the way,
    Who walk in the law of the LORD!
    2 Blessed are those who keep His testimonies,
    Who seek Him with the whole heart! Psalm 119: 1-2


    9 How can a young man cleanse his way?
    By taking heed according to Your word.
    10 With my whole heart I have sought You;
    Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments!
    11 Your word I have hidden in my heart,
    That I might not sin against You. Psalm 119

    I must know why the law of God is so offensive to people? I know we are not under the law but under grace but it's grace that enables us to keep the law. But, how come the Prophets meditated on the law and loved the law with their whole heart if it was so restrictive and bad?

    So I want to ask you guys? Is the law, Law.. per se.. or Life to your soul... If you realize that it was a God of Love who gave the law... then his reason for the law was love... I for one want to meditate on his law so that I can see his love and his life in his word...
    The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

  • #2
    Moses says, "Today I set before you a blessing and curse, life and death. Choose life."

    The Law can be a curse, it can also be a blessing. It can be death... it can also be life.

    Jesus was the Word, He was the Law made manifest... He came to fulfill it, not to destroy it. And He is a blessing or a curse depending on how we receive Him, on how we respond to His Word.

    We'd love to be able to draw lines, and say, "here is law, here is grace..."

    But the Law IS Grace, Grace is Love, and Love is the Law.
    Please could everyone pray for Mieke and Charles.

    My testimony http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthr...ight=testimony

    Comment


    • #3
      and to love the Lord means to obey his law.. John 14:15
      The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

      Comment


      • #4
        God's law. If we love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as ourself we are under grace. If we love ourselves, we love Him who is in us and can then turn and love those who are our neighbor. It's a strong thing, to be able to unconditionally love others just as Christ loved us while we were still sinners.

        Matthew 22
        35One of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him,

        36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
        37And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
        38"This is the great and foremost commandment.
        39"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 40"On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
        Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
        Not second or third, but first.
        Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
        when He is the source of all hope,
        when His love is received and freely given,
        holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
        will all other things be added unto to you.

        Comment


        • #5
          and the same grace that saves us is the same grace that empowers us to keep the law, and doesn't see us die when we fail but grace allows us to get back up after we fall.. it's not an excuse to fall... you actually resist grace when you intentionally disobey God's law
          The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by timmyb View Post
            and the same grace that saves us is the same grace that empowers us to keep the law, and doesn't see us die when we fail but grace allows us to get back up after we fall.. it's not an excuse to fall... you actually resist grace when you intentionally disobey God's law

            Indeed, love is a powerful thing!

            As you quoted in the OP, it's the whole testimony of god, not just law, that speaks of God.
            Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
            Not second or third, but first.
            Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
            when He is the source of all hope,
            when His love is received and freely given,
            holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
            will all other things be added unto to you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by timmyb View Post
              I must know why the law of God is so offensive to people?
              Because they walk in the flesh. Rom 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." todd

              Comment


              • #8
                but I see CHRISTIANS who do this! Beloved, a life of hating God's law so much as to try to cancel it out only produces a life of hiding and shame. We need to look at the law from the standpoint of the fact that a God of love gave the law to his people because he loved them. Yes he died to free you from the consequences of the law etc. etc. But, if we did open our eyes we would see a God of love behind the law and having the confidence of a God of love behind the law would greatly empower us to want to try to keep the law and increase our dependance upon him when we we do fall.

                Love gives the law life. Life is to be found in the law. David and the Prophets saw it. Personally, I want to find that.
                The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                  but I see CHRISTIANS who do this! Beloved, a life of hating God's law so much as to try to cancel it out only produces a life of hiding and shame. We need to look at the law from the standpoint of the fact that a God of love gave the law to his people because he loved them. Yes he died to free you from the consequences of the law etc. etc. But, if we did open our eyes we would see a God of love behind the law and having the confidence of a God of love behind the law would greatly empower us to want to try to keep the law and increase our dependance upon him when we we do fall.

                  Love gives the law life. Life is to be found in the law. David and the Prophets saw it. Personally, I want to find that.
                  The law gives life only if it exposes our seperation from God through sin and we allow our heart to hear that in conviction.

                  Really - God's law was given to Moses while the Israelites did exactly what God's law said not to do. As they were given the law not to worship idols - they were making a golden calf to worship. They broke every one of those.

                  Romans 7

                  6But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
                  7What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET." 8But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.
                  If God loved His people, then why give them the Law that could only make us "worse sinners"?
                  Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                  Not second or third, but first.
                  Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                  when He is the source of all hope,
                  when His love is received and freely given,
                  holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                  will all other things be added unto to you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    But look at Hosea 6:6 I desire mercy and not sacrifice and the knowledge of God above burnt offerings.

                    the law doesn't make us sinners... the law only exposes us for who we really are... we are already worse sinners... God wanted us to realize that so he gave us the law. The law doesn't make anyone anything. The law defines who God is and his holiness. And it only shows us just how unholy we are.
                    The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                      But look at Hosea 6:6 I desire mercy and not sacrifice and the knowledge of God above burnt offerings.

                      the law doesn't make us sinners... the law only exposes us for who we really are... we are already worse sinners... God wanted us to realize that so he gave us the law. The law doesn't make anyone anything. The law defines who God is and his holiness. And it only shows us just how unholy we are.
                      And that was more of what I was getting at with the question.
                      Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
                      Not second or third, but first.
                      Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
                      when He is the source of all hope,
                      when His love is received and freely given,
                      holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
                      will all other things be added unto to you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        To see the law is to see who can do it, we have the record of it, and it shows us Him.

                        Psalm 19:7-11:
                        7 "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul;
                        The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;
                        8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart;
                        The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;
                        9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever;
                        The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
                        10 More to be desired are they than gold,
                        Yea, than much fine gold;
                        Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
                        11 Moreover by them Your servant is warned,
                        And in keeping them there is great reward."


                        Perfect--
                        Hebrews 5:9
                        "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,"
                        James 1:25
                        "But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does."

                        Sure--
                        Hebrews 7:22
                        "by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant"


                        Right--
                        1 John 2:1
                        "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."


                        Pure--
                        1 John 3:2-3
                        "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure."



                        Clean--
                        John 15:1-4
                        “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;[a] and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me."



                        True and Righteous altogether--
                        1 John 5:20
                        "And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."


                        The above is a sample of the two-fold witness of the Bible, within itself about itself, and also of its witness to the person of Jesus Christ. Upon the pages of Scripture, we find the one who can change our hearts from the inside, which in Hebrews we find a similar claim;

                        Hebrews 4:12
                        "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
                        Mark


                        “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Matthew 7:13-14

                        (All Scripture quoted is from NKJV unless otherwise noted)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                          but I see CHRISTIANS who do this!
                          These Christians you speak of sound like they know scripture well.

                          Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
                          Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


                          Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
                          Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
                          Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


                          Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
                          Galatians 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
                          Galatians 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
                          Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
                          Galatians 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
                          Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

                          Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
                          1Peter 3:15
                          (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                            and the same grace that saves us is the same grace that empowers us to keep the law, and doesn't see us die when we fail but grace allows us to get back up after we fall.. it's not an excuse to fall... you actually resist grace when you intentionally disobey God's law
                            I like your definition of grace. It is power to do as God commands! As for the law, Paul himself said it was good. One purpose of the law was to wrap man up in sin so that he would be exceedingly sinful and see his need for Christ. Without the law, we wouldn't know our need.

                            But more importantly for today's believer, we need to know the shadows or spirit of the law because we live by the Spirit of the law now and not the letter. For instance, we can know our own priestly duties to God by studying the priestly duties in the Old Testament. But we do not keep the letter of those laws anymore. But we certainly keep the spirit behind them! We know more of what it means to enter into the Holy of Holies and what it means to be purified, of atonement and all the other things as they pertain to Christ. So the eternal law of God still stands. What was God really teaching about? Was the food law only about food? Or was it about holiness? If it was about holiness, then what was the spirit of the law concerning food?
                            Matt 9:13
                            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                            NASU

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Naphal View Post
                              These Christians you speak of sound like they know scripture well.
                              All your quotes are Pauline. People "who know Scripture well" use the whole book not one section that is described as being used by some for their own destruction. todd

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