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  • evolution & the bible...

    i recall hearing a verse in Genesis that demonstrates that MACROevolution would be impossible. it was something to the effect of sin and death entered the world through adam. Evolution whould require the death of infinitismal beings before Adam...therefore evolution could not have occured. obviously this applies to humans, but did adam's sin affect the animal kingdom? i am looking for some apologetics for those who claim to "know God", but beleive in theistic evolution.

    God bless,
    Todd
    FORGIVEN!!!

  • #2
    You're thinking of Genesis 3; you are correct in that macro evolution would thereby be impossible. Those who believe in theistic evolution would not interpret Genesis 3 literally. The entrance of sin would be wrought though the raising of consciousness.

    Comment


    • #3
      it's a huge subject. one i've come to not talk about.

      but while your looking don't forget about exodus 20:11.

      and there's a video called 'the great debate' on answersingenisis.com if you want. it'll give you some thoughts. i quit watching however cuz it made me to mad.

      have fun!!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
        You're thinking of Genesis 3; you are correct in that macro evolution would thereby be impossible. Those who believe in theistic evolution would not interpret Genesis 3 literally. The entrance of sin would be wrought though the raising of consciousness.
        That is a great point in terms of biblical interpretation on this subject. Indeed, whether one comes to Genesis with a literal or allegorical / metaphorical interpretive method will really dictate the conclusions that are reached - especially as they relate to evolution and science.

        I have found that those who are really convinced that evolution is true are difficult to reach with those kinds of arguments. Most of them have fundamentally rejected ANY kind of biblical authority. For theistic evolutionists this is a chief question that they have to deal with, "how does one interpret the Bible?"

        There is much scientific evidence to support a literal interpretive methodology and more importantly, the Scriptures testify of themselves in such as way that we need look no further than a plain reading of the text. Where the text is narrative we should interpret it that way, where it is parable we should interpret it that way, and so on.

        Genesis - I am convinced - is a literally preserved account of human history.
        The Pastor's Study
        “The easiest way to keep a broken vessel full is to keep the faucet constantly running.” – DL Moody

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        • #5
          Originally posted by PilgrimPastor View Post
          I have found that those who are really convinced that evolution is true are difficult to reach with those kinds of arguments. Most of them have fundamentally rejected ANY kind of biblical authority. For theistic evolutionists this is a chief question that they have to deal with, "how does one interpret the Bible?"

          There is much scientific evidence to support a literal interpretive methodology and more importantly, the Scriptures testify of themselves in such as way that we need look no further than a plain reading of the text. Where the text is narrative we should interpret it that way, where it is parable we should interpret it that way, and so on.

          Genesis - I am convinced - is a literally preserved account of human history.
          I do not really believe in evolution but I do believe Genesis could be metaphorical and I also believe the Bible is the ultimate authority.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JoeChristian View Post
            I do not really believe in evolution but I do believe Genesis could be metaphorical and I also believe the Bible is the ultimate authority.
            The thing is this. . .You start saying 'this' and 'that' part of the Bible is metaphorical (when it isn't blatantly obvious) then you have to wonder, what's to stop you from making the rest of the book metaphorical, as opposed to 'literal'? I think you'll quickly find the biblical text undermined and more and more metaphorical.

            As for evolution I do believe in micro evolution, I don't believe in macro evolution. Gotta be careful with terms because if you say you don't believe in evolution then you're going to get called on it where adaptation is concerned.

            And I forgot to put in my first response. The raising of conscious would be a by-product of the evolutionary process.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
              The thing is this. . .You start saying 'this' and 'that' part of the Bible is metaphorical (when it isn't blatantly obvious) then you have to wonder, what's to stop you from making the rest of the book metaphorical, as opposed to 'literal'? I think you'll quickly find the biblical text undermined and more and more metaphorical.
              This is why I hate it when people throw quotes on me.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Xel'Naga View Post
                The thing is this. . .You start saying 'this' and 'that' part of the Bible is metaphorical (when it isn't blatantly obvious) then you have to wonder, what's to stop you from making the rest of the book metaphorical, as opposed to 'literal'? I think you'll quickly find the biblical text undermined and more and more metaphorical.
                That's the real trouble isn't it? I have seen what "Deconstruction Theology" has done to local churches. In many Congregational Churches we are reaping the wondrous benefits of this kind of theology. It leaves people with a lack of trust in the Scriptures and leads them into a watered-down-powerless Christian "Philosophy" of life when carried out to its logical conclusions.

                If the Bible can not be trusted then its message can not be trusted; if its message can be trusted then Jesus can be fully trusted and Christianity is little more than a tradition of vain and empty words...

                Rather than devaluing the Bible in an effort to make it conform to societal trends of this generation, let us elevate the Scripture to a place of dependence and trustworthiness!

                The Pastor's Study
                “The easiest way to keep a broken vessel full is to keep the faucet constantly running.” – DL Moody

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ChristianKnight View Post
                  This is why I hate it when people throw quotes on me.
                  What does this have to do with undermining the biblical text?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PilgrimPastor View Post
                    That's the real trouble isn't it? I have seen what "Deconstruction Theology" has done to local churches. In many Congregational Churches we are reaping the wondrous benefits of this kind of theology. It leaves people with a lack of trust in the Scriptures and leads them into a watered-down-powerless Christian "Philosophy" of life when carried out to its logical conclusions.

                    If the Bible can not be trusted then its message can not be trusted; if its message can be trusted then Jesus can be fully trusted and Christianity is little more than a tradition of vain and empty words...

                    Rather than devaluing the Bible in an effort to make it conform to societal trends of this generation, let us elevate the Scripture to a place of dependence and trustworthiness!

                    could not have said it better myself

                    as far as i can see there is no scientific evidence to negate what is plainly stated in the Bible. Anyone that can show some ? Why abandon a Biblical Doctrine for a thoery that has so many holes in it, it would make a tea bag jealous.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nobunaga View Post
                      could not have said it better myself

                      as far as i can see there is no scientific evidence to negate what is plainly stated in the Bible. Anyone that can show some ? Why abandon a Biblical Doctrine for a thoery that has so many holes in it, it would make a tea bag jealous.
                      Exactly. While the Bible is not primarily a science or history book - it is a book about the fall and redemption of humanity - God has providentially preserved an entirely accurate record of what has occurred in His creation.

                      Man has always and will always look for ways to deny God out of the core of His nature - sinful rebellion. Evolution is little more than a modern restatement of what is written in the first chapter of the book of Romans;

                      "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen."
                      (Romans 1:18-25 NKJV)

                      The Pastor's Study
                      “The easiest way to keep a broken vessel full is to keep the faucet constantly running.” – DL Moody

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PilgrimPastor View Post
                        Exactly. While the Bible is not primarily a science or history book - it is a book about the fall and redemption of humanity - God has providentially preserved an entirely accurate record of what has occurred in His creation.


                        Once again i concur lol.

                        although the Bible is not a scientific book, there great fact to be found in there regarding gems of science that were well before there time. Cleaning hands for e.g common sense now for a doctor to clean his hands but wasn't so long ago. I just found out recenly that circumcision reduces the risk of cantracting HIV, i knew it was more hygenic but didn't know that.

                        anyway getting off topic

                        what i dont understand is why a Christian would leave a sound Biblical doctrine that holds up to scrutiny only for a flawed thoery thats can advance and answer very little. Of course i'm talking macro evolution here not micro.

                        Not to mention the bigger problem of watering down faith in the scriptures mentioned earlier wich is the bigger and more sinister problem ! The Bible is a anvil that has worn out many hammers. This is just another hammer wearing itself out on the mighty anvil.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nobunaga View Post
                          could not have said it better myself

                          as far as i can see there is no scientific evidence to negate what is plainly stated in the Bible. Anyone that can show some ? Why abandon a Biblical Doctrine for a thoery that has so many holes in it, it would make a tea bag jealous.
                          well said. i think this verse could definately apply

                          1 Corinthians 1:18-30, particularly verse 27:

                          "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;"

                          It is simple for me to beleive that God could form a man in one day...
                          evedentally it is harder for some to beleive that. i know this isnt a salvation issue, but it concerns me that some "beleivers" hold this theory as truth.

                          Originally posted by PilgrimPastor View Post
                          That's the real trouble isn't it? I have seen what "Deconstruction Theology" has done to local churches. In many Congregational Churches we are reaping the wondrous benefits of this kind of theology. It leaves people with a lack of trust in the Scriptures and leads them into a watered-down-powerless Christian "Philosophy" of life when carried out to its logical conclusions.

                          If the Bible can not be trusted then its message can not be trusted; if its message can be trusted then Jesus can be fully trusted and Christianity is little more than a tradition of vain and empty words...

                          Rather than devaluing the Bible in an effort to make it conform to societal trends of this generation, let us elevate the Scripture to a place of dependence and trustworthiness!

                          also, very well said
                          FORGIVEN!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by itsokimadocter View Post
                            i recall hearing a verse in Genesis that demonstrates that MACROevolution would be impossible. it was something to the effect of sin and death entered the world through adam. Evolution whould require the death of infinitismal beings before Adam...therefore evolution could not have occured. obviously this applies to humans, but did adam's sin affect the animal kingdom? i am looking for some apologetics for those who claim to "know God", but beleive in theistic evolution.

                            God bless,
                            Todd
                            While that's true, there are some other verses that show MACROevolution to be impossible:-

                            Gen 1:21-25 - no fewer than SIX times, God describes creatures being made "according to its/their kind".

                            Also:-

                            "By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible". Heb 11:3 NKJV

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Evolution is false and is one of the many falsehoods that lead people away from Christ. Granted there are theistic evolutionist Christians but they do not have a proper interpretation of Genesis in my opinion. The Bible says that sin entered the world through Adam, not through a bunch of ape men.

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