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  • Illegal immigration

    First off, I just want to make it clear that I have no particular dislike for those of Hispanic or Latino origin. To me, people are just people and no ethnic group is any better or any worse than any other ethnic group.

    With that said, I would like to know what is the proper Christian attitude to have about Mexicans illegally crossing the border into the United States? Illegals fraudulently obtaining social security cards? Getting driver's licenses? Being allowed to vote? Coming into the U.S. and forming gangs and murdering, stealing, raping, and selling drugs?

    I know how I feel as an American citizen. I'm enraged and disgusted! Our government is pathetic for not securing our borders. Besides the illegal immigration problem, open borders are a perfect way to smuggle in terrorists.

    To be honest, I understand why they come here. They are looking for a better standard of life. I totally get that and I don't blame them for wanting to come here.

    However, if you want to come here, I feel you need to PLAY BY THE RULES AND COME HERE LEGALLY! Anybody else feel the same way I do?

  • #2
    I do,
    And if you do come here LEARN OUR LANGUAGE!!!!!!
    I am tired of having to learn other languages just because someone
    I deal with on a daily bases can't be bothered to learn the USA language,
    by the way it's English if anyone has forgotten.
    "Love is not about you...and it never was"
    "Selfishness is inwardly focused, but Love is Always outwardly focused!"

    I am very anti-abortion, anti-murder, and Pro-Love.
    Gotta stop repeating myself...

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    It's main weapon is lack of truth.
    Please learn the truth about the Marfan syndrome
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    the best I can.

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    • #3
      Give to Caesar what is Caesar's mate and to God what is God's.

      Or in other words, obey the human law unless it conflicts with God's law. If the human law states that people shouldnt que jump then you, under Gods authority, should obey that law.
      "Few men are born brave. Many become so through training and force of discipline"
      -Flavius Vegetius Renatus

      "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead." - James 2:26

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      • #4
        We in South Africa have the same problems with illegal immigrants from the very poor neighbour Zimbabwe.

        my God; in Him I will trust (Psa 91:2).

        If you have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior, NOW is the time.

        Persevere, pray and be ready for the Return of Christ.

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        • #5
          Prov 6:30-31
          30 Men do not despise a thief if he steals
          To satisfy himself when he is hungry;
          31 But when he is found, he must repay sevenfold;
          He must give all the substance of his house.
          NASB

          In this verse we see both compassion and punishment. No one despises such a man. But when he is found out, he loses all. I think we should be pushing for easier immigration laws so that we can bring folks in to work and that they can have some form of income to send back home. Anyone that has ever seen 8 year old kids begging in the streets of a latin american country knows how hopeless many in Latin America can be.
          Matt 9:13
          13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
          NASU

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          • #6
            Originally posted by aaron35 View Post
            With that said, I would like to know what is the proper Christian attitude to have about Mexicans illegally crossing the border into the United States?
            How Would Jesus treat them?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jennifer View Post
              How Would Jesus treat them?
              Jesus would probably take care of their need and tell them "Go, and sin no more!". What was that verse about not coming to change the law again? Nobody said we have to be bitter and mean spirited about enforcing the law, but the law CAN be enforced.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                Prov 6:30-31
                30 Men do not despise a thief if he steals
                To satisfy himself when he is hungry;
                31 But when he is found, he must repay sevenfold;
                He must give all the substance of his house.
                NASB

                In this verse we see both compassion and punishment. No one despises such a man. But when he is found out, he loses all. I think we should be pushing for easier immigration laws so that we can bring folks in to work and that they can have some form of income to send back home. Anyone that has ever seen 8 year old kids begging in the streets of a latin american country knows how hopeless many in Latin America can be.
                Its very sad. Even sadder that Felipe Calderón (Mexico's president) is one of the wealthiest men in the world. Sad that so many countries in Latin America are caught in unending military coups to sieze power. And yet there are beacons of hope there (Costa Rica for example).

                Its hard to look at the fate of young children, but immigrating them BECAUSE of their poverty is impractical. After all... there's 400,000,000 more of them in China... shall they come over as well?

                And what of the American laborer who's lost his job because unscrupulous contractors are hiring illegal labor at pennies on the dollar? There's a gentleman on THIS very forum who can tell you how frustrating that is. If we're going to have a victim competition, shouldn't we be helping our own countrymen first?

                Now, it may shock some that I'm not even American when I write this. I'm a Canadian, living and working in the US. Every hour of that labor has been by the book at great cost to myself. I bust my hump to do it right and its insulting that others are excused from the same painstaking process because they've got it rough.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                  Its very sad. Even sadder that Felipe Calderón (Mexico's president) is one of the wealthiest men in the world. Sad that so many countries in Latin America are caught in unending military coups to sieze power. And yet there are beacons of hope there (Costa Rica for example).

                  Its hard to look at the fate of young children, but immigrating them BECAUSE of their poverty is impractical. After all... there's 400,000,000 more of them in China... shall they come over as well?
                  To be honest, China isn't sending that many folks over here. So, IMO, it's a straw man because it isn't happening. But we should do what we can do. I am sure there are many folks that have been robbed and are laying in the streets. But who do we help? The ones that cross our paths just like the good samaritan did. The ones in the next country that we don't come in contact with are beyond our reach. Let us help those that God has caused to cross our path.

                  And what of the American laborer who's lost his job because unscrupulous contractors are hiring illegal labor at pennies on the dollar? There's a gentleman on THIS very forum who can tell you how frustrating that is. If we're going to have a victim competition, shouldn't we be helping our own countrymen first?
                  This is definitely a straw man. When unemployment is 4%, finding a job is not as difficult as it has been. The whole reason these folks are coming here is that sheer number of jobs available. When unemployment gets up to 7% to 10% or more again, the number coming here will slow to a trickle. Illegal labor isn't pennies on the dollar. Most folks that hire illegal labor do so because that is all that's available. There are many jobs that remain unfilled in some parts of the country.

                  Now, it may shock some that I'm not even American when I write this. I'm a Canadian, living and working in the US. Every hour of that labor has been by the book at great cost to myself. I bust my hump to do it right and its insulting that others are excused from the same painstaking process because they've got it rough.
                  This is a valid point. One problem I had with the legislation is that it gave citizenship to those who broke the law before it gave citizenship to those that did it right. I know folks in Latin America that would love to immigrate to this country and have tried to do so. But they won't come here illegally. Yet, we are going to reward those that have broken the law and not those that have honored it. I would prefer to put a system in place that would bring folks over here legally and reward them for doing it right while putting the folks at the bottom that broke the law. On the other hand, I certainly think there should be room for compassion. The poverty in Latin America is amazing when compared to here. Even our poorest of the poor are better off than the poor in some Latin American countries.
                  Matt 9:13
                  13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                  NASU

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                    To be honest, China isn't sending that many folks over here. So, IMO, it's a straw man because it isn't happening. But we should do what we can do. I am sure there are many folks that have been robbed and are laying in the streets. But who do we help? The ones that cross our paths just like the good samaritan did. The ones in the next country that we don't come in contact with are beyond our reach. Let us help those that God has caused to cross our path.
                    Well you got me on the China thing... so yeah that may be a straw-man. I really meant it to be an example of how far the "we need to help them out of poverty" thinking can go. In my mind, their own country can be doing plenty (PLENTY) to improve their situation, but they aren't.

                    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                    This is definitely a straw man. When unemployment is 4%, finding a job is not as difficult as it has been. The whole reason these folks are coming here is that sheer number of jobs available. When unemployment gets up to 7% to 10% or more again, the number coming here will slow to a trickle. Illegal labor isn't pennies on the dollar. Most folks that hire illegal labor do so because that is all that's available. There are many jobs that remain unfilled in some parts of the country.
                    I do not concur. And maybe The1Bill or FolowMeInfantry can come and speak from personal experience here about how real job loss is due to illegal workers. 4% unemployment doesn't even count those whos benefits have run out, and the Bush administration has gone through great lengths to alter how that metric is calculated.

                    Originally posted by Brother Mark View Post
                    I know folks in Latin America that would love to immigrate to this country and have tried to do so. But they won't come here illegally.
                    I pray the Lord blesses those people for their integrity. The system probably could use some reform. If industries are lacking for labor, then its up to domestic policy to try to get domestic workers to those industries, and failing that, its up to foriegn policy to bring the workers in. I do not agree that illegal labor is taking "jobs american's don't want". I believe its more a case of "taking those jobs at much lower cost".

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                      Well you got me on the China thing... so yeah that may be a straw-man. I really meant it to be an example of how far the "we need to help them out of poverty" thinking can go. In my mind, their own country can be doing plenty (PLENTY) to improve their situation, but they aren't.
                      Oh no doubt about that! But, as in the story of the good Samaritan, the man's countrymen WOULDN'T help him. Though the priest and the levite should have done it, that fact didn't keep the Samaritan from helping.

                      I do not concur. And maybe The1Bill or FolowMeInfantry can come and speak from personal experience here about how real job loss is due to illegal workers. 4% unemployment doesn't even count those whos benefits have run out, and the Bush administration has gone through great lengths to alter how that metric is calculated.
                      I am not saying it never happens. What I am saying is that it is way exaggerated. In Florida, you could wait a long while to get a house built not too long ago because workers were scarce. Mostly in the construction industry, there were folks of Latin American descent. While I am not sure, I do assume that many were most likely illegal. Now many are out of work. But at the height of the boom, workers were few and far between. The waiting list for houses was long.

                      I pray the Lord blesses those people for their integrity. The system probably could use some reform. If industries are lacking for labor, then its up to domestic policy to try to get domestic workers to those industries, and failing that, its up to foriegn policy to bring the workers in.
                      Amen to that!

                      I do not agree that illegal labor is taking "jobs american's don't want". I believe its more a case of "taking those jobs at much lower cost".

                      That depends on where you live most likely. When was the last time you knew a citizen that was a migrant farmer? I don't know too many people that are willing to move around from location to location to help farmers harvest their land for seasonal earnings. As a kid, we did some of that work but no adult would do it. Now, many teens won't do it so the immigrant does.

                      I don't doubt that some citizens have lost jobs and immigrants have gained them. But there are several industries where the domestic supply of workers is not enough. Since you are here working, your area of work is likely one of them. Many of those kinds of jobs are high tech. On the other hand, think of this... there are what 10 to 20 million illegal immigrants in this country? How many jobs do they have? If they were all gone, do you think we could fill them all with domestic workers?

                      I know in Florida we could not find enough workers just 2 to 3 years ago. Now, we have more than we can handle. (Say Florida because I have often worked there and my folks live there.)
                      Matt 9:13
                      13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                      NASU

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Christians are not required to ask them for there green card all we are required to do is ask "Do you know Jesus Christ? Do you need help I see your hungry?" If you work for the immigration service then ask them for the green card. We are not the police we are Christians.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HisLeast View Post
                          Its very sad. Even sadder that Felipe Calderón (Mexico's president) is one of the wealthiest men in the world. Sad that so many countries in Latin America are caught in unending military coups to sieze power. And yet there are beacons of hope there (Costa Rica for example).

                          Its hard to look at the fate of young children, but immigrating them BECAUSE of their poverty is impractical. After all... there's 400,000,000 more of them in China... shall they come over as well?

                          And what of the American laborer who's lost his job because unscrupulous contractors are hiring illegal labor at pennies on the dollar? There's a gentleman on THIS very forum who can tell you how frustrating that is. If we're going to have a victim competition, shouldn't we be helping our own countrymen first?

                          Now, it may shock some that I'm not even American when I write this. I'm a Canadian, living and working in the US. Every hour of that labor has been by the book at great cost to myself. I bust my hump to do it right and its insulting that others are excused from the same painstaking process because they've got it rough.
                          Oh come on now... you do understand the difference between Mexico which is right next door separated by a river that is ankle deep and china which is separated by a monster ocean... right? Honestly... can't even believe you are trying to go there with that sort of point.

                          Rest assured... there are illigal folk here from China too. But few compared because the means it takes to get here. And even still... COME ON IN. I can witness to them TIMES EASIER here than I'll ever be able to do in China. We are Christian folk right? Most important to us... even over jobs in this country should be the souls of every man and who cares what their nationality is and who cares how they come across our path... be it through coming here legal or illegal.

                          Most of these folks aren't any more saved than the River or Ocean they crossed is saved. Why do we expect they are going to act like it?


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                            Oh come on now... you do understand the difference between Mexico which is right next door separated by a river that is ankle deep and china which is separated by a monster ocean... right? Honestly... can't even believe you are trying to go there with that sort of point.
                            I won't validate your patronizing tone with a well prepared and reasoned answer.

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                            • #15
                              http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=42216

                              I think we should PRAY for them. How hard it must be for them to leave their family and friends, their homes, their COUNTRY, just to be able to make enough money to feed themselves and their families.

                              And Jesus, no doubt, would have had COMPASSION on them... as a matter of fact, isn`t there specific Scripture regarding the care of refugees?
                              Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

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