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Did Paul and Jesus teach the same about Hell?

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  • Did Paul and Jesus teach the same about Hell?

    A quote from Brother Mark

    Our view of Christ and his teachings definitely grows as we mature in the Lord. The calvinist still preaches that only those that believe in Christ IN THIS LIFE go to heaven. The Arminian the same. Others that preach differently preach a message that neither Paul nor Jesus taught.
    In every case but one (Luke 16) Jesus used the word Gehenna when talking about judgment yet Paul never used the word Gehenna. (nor anyone else except James how used it one time) Paul only used the word hades one time and then he said that it had no power. "Death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?" 1Cor 15:55.

    Gehenna was a literal place and no where else in scripture is a literal place changed to mean something in the spiritual.

    Were Jesus and Paul teaching the same thing?

  • #2
    The word "hades" is only used in:

    because You will not leave My soul in Hades, nor will You allow Your holy One to see corruption. (Act 2:27, NKJV)


    seeing this beforehand, he spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor would His flesh see corruption, (Act 2:31)

    my God; in Him I will trust (Psa 91:2).

    If you have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior, NOW is the time.

    Persevere, pray and be ready for the Return of Christ.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by mikebr View Post
      A quote from Brother Mark



      In every case but one (Luke 16) Jesus used the word Gehenna when talking about judgment yet Paul never used the word Gehenna. (nor anyone else except James how used it one time) Paul only used the word hades one time and then he said that it had no power. "Death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?" 1Cor 15:55.

      Gehenna was a literal place and no where else in scripture is a literal place changed to mean something in the spiritual.

      Were Jesus and Paul teaching the same thing?



      Paul was quoting on of the minor prophets when he said the death sting verse...one of the "H's"....Hosea or Haggai, I always forget which one.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hades and Sheol were both used to describe at times 'the grave'...like in those Roelof verses.

        The NT is clear though, that the destiny of the wicked after death is conscious and unending:
        • torment
        • fire
        • suffering
        • darkness
        • weeping
        • gnashing
        • remorse

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for your replies but:

          Can you explain why Jesus used the word Gehenna and Paul nor any of the other NT writers used the word? James is the exception. He used it once in James 3:6 and seems to be speaking about the power of the tongue.

          It seems that at least one of them would have mentioned something as important as Gehenna if it was a fiery eternal damnation.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mikebr View Post
            Thanks for your replies but:

            Can you explain why Jesus used the word Gehenna and Paul nor any of the other NT writers used the word? James is the exception. He used it once in James 3:6 and seems to be speaking about the power of the tongue.

            It seems that at least one of them would have mentioned something as important as Gehenna if it was a fiery eternal damnation.


            Probably for the same reason the word "Church" isn't used in 80% of the N.T. verses, and isn't found in Revelation after chapter 3.....not because believers are missing from 80% of the Bible; but because the writer chose to use other words.

            In the case of Gehenna, perhaps words like fire, flame, torment, darkness, abyss, lake, etc....were preferred.

            No reason to build a doctrine around the useage, or lack of useage, of a word.


            There are plenty of Scriptures describing the eternal state of the dead and the torment, consciousness, and flames they endure.

            Don't try to turn this into a debate advancing either Universalism or Annhilationism. Just incase you might be wanting to take it there.

            Thanks

            Comment


            • #7
              David

              Interesting remarks and view point.

              my God; in Him I will trust (Psa 91:2).

              If you have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior, NOW is the time.

              Persevere, pray and be ready for the Return of Christ.

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't see why Paul would have to preach about Hell if Jesus already had it covered? The Bible ended up as one consistent book. If I co-write a book on Calculus with somebody, and the other guy writes several chapters on integrals, I'm not going to talk about integrals myself--I'm going to write about derivatives. There is no need for me to "corroborate' the other guy's writings about integrals in the same book. That would be silly.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by IPet2_9 View Post
                  I don't see why Paul would have to preach about Hell if Jesus already had it covered? The Bible ended up as one consistent book. If I co-write a book on Calculus with somebody, and the other guy writes several chapters on integrals, I'm not going to talk about integrals myself--I'm going to write about derivatives. There is no need for me to "corroborate' the other guy's writings about integrals in the same book. That would be silly.
                  One major problem; they were talking to two different audiences. They were not writing a book. We tend to forget that the people that Paul was speaking to didn't have what Jesus said in writing. He (Paul) also repeated many things that Jesus did say.

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                  • #10
                    No, but the Council of Nicea DID put together a single book. Paul and Jesus both said plenty of things that did not get into the Bible. There is no need to include what Paul said about Hell in the Bible if it's already included elsewhere. Plus, it's not really the Council of Nicea who put together the Bible--it's God who put it together. Same thing, same reason.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by IPet2_9 View Post
                      No, but the Council of Nicea DID put together a single book. Paul and Jesus both said plenty of things that did not get into the Bible. There is no need to include what Paul said about Hell in the Bible if it's already included elsewhere. Plus, it's not really the Council of Nicea who put together the Bible--it's God who put it together. Same thing, same reason.

                      Paul and Jesus said plenty of things that didn't get into the bible.........
                      1. how do you know this?
                      2. wouldn't you say the fact that billions and billions of people are going to burn for all eternity should be mentioned by Paul?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1. how do you know this?
                        Are you serious? Obviously the Bible does not record every single thing Paul and Jesus said. Nonetheless, if you really need proof of that:

                        John 20:30 Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.


                        2. wouldn't you say the fact that billions and billions of people are going to burn for all eternity should be mentioned by Paul?
                        Sure...just not in the Bible. God--the guy who wrote the Book--decided it wasn't necessary. If indeed Paul never mentioned Hell in the Bible.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IPet2_9 View Post
                          I don't see why Paul would have to preach about Hell if Jesus already had it covered?
                          why does my mom have to tell me more than once to clean my room? then after hearing her say it my step dad has to tell me again? haha

                          Remember that the Gospels weren't written until well after Christs ascension. They were written around 70 AD i believe. so no one had physical access to Christs teachings at the time paul was writing. why does Jesus constantly repeat some of his own teachings and teachings of the Old testament? It probably means that what he is teaching is pretty important and wants us to listen to what he is saying.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by IPet2_9 View Post
                            Are you serious? Obviously the Bible does not record every single thing Paul and Jesus said. Nonetheless, if you really need proof of that:

                            John 20:30 Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book.




                            Sure...just not in the Bible. God--the guy who wrote the Book--decided it wasn't necessary. If indeed Paul never mentioned Hell in the Bible.

                            I guess I meant, how do you know that Paul preached on hell?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mikebr View Post
                              Thanks for your replies but:

                              Can you explain why Jesus used the word Gehenna and Paul nor any of the other NT writers used the word? James is the exception. He used it once in James 3:6 and seems to be speaking about the power of the tongue.

                              It seems that at least one of them would have mentioned something as important as Gehenna if it was a fiery eternal damnation.
                              Gehenna was a place where sacrifices were made and rubbish burned there (2 Chr. 33:6 Jer. 7:31). I think Jesus used it because the Jewish people could more than understand the precept of judgement when this place was used as an illustration.
                              Paul was sent to the Gentiles, some who may not have been so familiar with that place. (or maybe they were?)
                              Well, as well as I know the Word and I never thought about Paul never mentioning Hell! Wow. ! But I do know he told about judgement.
                              I have a Blog. Please visit!

                              My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

                              Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

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