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  • people i need some help/merged with Intro thread

    i am new here and i need some christian help, i am a christian myself but my muslim friend told me to join this site which is very similar to this only its about islam so people would answer my questins about islam but i am having trouble answering them and i feel like i am making Jesus look bad. is it true that the bible was changed is theere any proof?

  • #2
    Hello, vicky, and welcome to the forum!

    To give you a brief answer, no, the christian Bible has not changed, ever.
    Romans 15:30 KJV 30Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Vicky !

      There is lots of great apologetics sites on the web, for example this one.
      If you need any help with the questions your Islam friends are tossing your way, just shout, there is lot's of folks here that can help.

      I have a question : what do they mean by " change " ?
      If they mean the content of the Bible, then the answer is a definit no.
      On the other hand, there is lots of proof that the content of the Bible did not change . Google the Red sea scrolls as an example of this.

      People are constantly looking for "proof" that the Bible was modified to show that Jesus was God, or that there was a vote at a church council deciding the fate of the Holy Trinity, but in the end, it is al utter nonsence.

      As yourself this : Do you really think God would let His children be deceived in this way, or would He rather see to it that His Word stay tru in some way or another ?
      Trust God, He will show you the way.

      Comment


      • #4
        Your question in defense of the faith will be very well suited here in the A&E forum. I have moved it here for continued discussion.
        Seek ye FIRST the kingdom.
        Not second or third, but first.
        Only when all else pales to God, when He receives all glory,
        when He is the source of all hope,
        when His love is received and freely given,
        holding not to the world but to the promise to come,
        will all other things be added unto to you.

        Comment


        • #5
          this website is great! cruise around it for a while.

          http://www.carm.org/seek/reliable2.htm

          God bless,
          Todd
          FORGIVEN!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by vicky View Post
            i am new here and i need some christian help, i am a christian myself but my muslim friend told me to join this site which is very similar to this only its about islam so people would answer my questins about islam but i am having trouble answering them and i feel like i am making Jesus look bad. is it true that the bible was changed is theere any proof?
            You'll want to look into the fact that we have over 14,000 ancient Biblical manuscripts which match our Bible 98% (unheard of for a document from antiquity). Nothing was changed, there is no proof it ever was.

            Comment


            • #7
              The bible has continuity throughout it. To change one part would have messed up the rest of it. God has it that not a jot nor a tittle will fail to come to pass. Jesus came in the volume of the Book.

              Psalms 40:7
              Hebrews 10:7

              Matthew 5:18
              http://prophecyinsights.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Vicky,

                From the duplicate post I deleted Vicky
                christians follow Paul's religion instead of Jesus i mean do we?
                No, Paul did not teach any other Gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the same Gospel all the disciples taught and the same one Jesus told them all to teach. People who say these things have no clue what the Bible teaches, don't listen to them.

                The Bible has more support than any other antiquities document. More copies and in fewer years from the originals. It has been very accurately preserved.

                If you can find a book titled "Evidence that Demands a Verdict II" by Josh McDowell, get a copy. Its a big fat reference type book but is written for even the simple like me to grasp. Very good book with much information in it. (and all in one place)

                IMHO, people speak in ignorance when they dog the accuracy of the Bible as we have it today.


                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  I Am Not Worried

                  Originally posted by Die Filadelfieer View Post
                  Hi Vicky !

                  There is lots of great apologetics sites on the web, for example this one.
                  If you need any help with the questions your Islam friends are tossing your way, just shout, there is lot's of folks here that can help.

                  I have a question : what do they mean by " change " ?
                  If they mean the content of the Bible, then the answer is a definit no.
                  On the other hand, there is lots of proof that the content of the Bible did not change . Google the Red sea scrolls as an example of this.

                  People are constantly looking for "proof" that the Bible was modified to show that Jesus was God, or that there was a vote at a church council deciding the fate of the Holy Trinity, but in the end, it is al utter nonsence.

                  As yourself this : Do you really think God would let His children be deceived in this way, or would He rather see to it that His Word stay tru in some way or another ?
                  Trust God, He will show you the way.


                  I am not worried about the whole jesus issue but all i am worried are those poor muslims who have been lied to that the bible has been changed. they banned me in their forum for asking questions that they couldnt answer also for my last post.

                  Ok since Mona's left i donít know what to do anymore i mean it seems like i am a losing battle already since I am now on my own but if by any chance i am leaving too i would really love for all of you to read my testimony please!

                  for the last time in this forum

                  Was Jesus good?

                  rules- its a yes or no answer nothing more and nothing less, all you have to do is answer and i guess it would be easier for someone who's read the quran and hadith.

                  if it's yes- then putting in mind what he said, As Jesus was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

                  And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone..." (Mk 10.17-18) THEN IF HE'S GOOD HE'S GOD HE MANIFESTED HIMSELF AND SUFFERED ALL THAT SHAME AND HUMILIATION FOR YOU NOT FOR YOU TO START QUESTIONING HOW GOD USED THE BATHROOM AND ATE. HE DID ALL THAT FOR YOU. HE HUMBLED HIMSELF AND LEFT HEAVENLY GLORY FOR YOU. FOR HE HATH NOT COME TO THIS WORLD TO CONDEMN IT BUT TO SAVE ALL HUMANITY.IF YOU COULD AND IMAGINE JESUS AS THE SON OF GOD AND HIS SACRIFISE TRY CALLING HIM AND YOU WILL BE AMAZED LIKE SOME CHRSTIANS ARE!

                  if its a no, then what wrong did he do cause to bad you will have to be a sinner.

                  you guys know the answer i dont know why you are not answering.

                  after answering this question would you think about all your prophets. The good things that they have done and the bad. i want you to compare all of them to Jesus Christ, who taught christians to love their enemies, who healed the meek, made the blind see, awoke the dead. No one died on his presence. Were there or are there any other prophets who teach of love. i am not just talking about the word i am talking about love. if you think about it though even you muslims who take him as a prophet, you know that he was more than that. a prophet does not raise the dead only God that.

                  Let me tell you something about my experience with Jesus. its just a little testimony.

                  From when i was little till i turned 15 i was just someone who believed in God/Jesus. They seemed so far away but that never stopped me from praying. To me God was just someone who always sat there waiting to forgive, punish people for their sins and answer our prayers. I only spoke to him in times of need. Jesus was just his son whom i knew had been to earth to die for our sins. i never thankred God for that or maybe even if i did it was just once in a very long time. i prayed the lord's prayer went to church every saturday and sometimes i was moved by some of the preacher's sermons but it would be just for a moment. Saturdays just the same it was like reliving some of them but i would go to church, sabbath class (children's class) sermon then sometimes choir practise. slowly i got bored so i never went to church every week. but i still prayed maybe once or twice a day and God did answer some of my prayers and all i did was thank him. it was like that till i turned 15. i started reading testimonal books (people telling their real life stories about how Jesus answered their prayers and rescued them from the devil) Jesus had also rescued me from some really crucila situations that i would really love to share with you but aint got time to do it and all i could think was yeah right whats so suprising anywhere after all they might be lying trying to convert people to christ but i got somethingfrom those books. one in particular called "The incredible power of prayer" by Roger Morneu. He intercedes for people (he prays for them and also writes his testimonies). He says that Jesus rescues him in many situations and when he is praying all he does ask the holy spirit (third part in the trinity) to help but its more than that cause not only are his prayers answered but he has got a relationship with trinity(father,son and the holy spirit) Although i was a christian, i'd never had of anything like that b4 or even if i had i hadnt put it into thought that much i didnt know just like some of you might not. I felt myself kneel down on the floor, i closed my eyes and looked up to the sky

                  DEAR LORD JESUS CHRIST LOVER OF MY SOUL

                  I DONT KNOW WHY YOU DIED FOR ME, I DONT KNOW WHY YOU CREATED ME, I DONT KNOW WHY YOU EVEN COUNT ME AS ONE OF YOUR DAUGHTERS IN HEAVEN, I DONT KNOW WHY YOU CREATED GARDEN OF EDEN, I DONT KNOW WHY THERE ARE SO MANY RELIGIONS IN THIS WORLD, I DONT KNOW WHY THERE IS A NEED OF HATRED, I DONT KNOW WHY YOU BOTHER WITH ME, I DONT KNOW WHY YOU CARE, I DONT KNOW ANYTHING, I DONT EVEN KNOW IF AETHISTS ARE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT YOU DONT EXIST BUT IF THERE ARE TWO THINGS I AM QUITE SHOW OF ARE THAT, THAT I JESUS OF NAZARETH,MY SAVIOUR AND MY KING ITS THAT YOU LIVE! I KNOW THAT AND ITS UNDENIABLE ANYWHERE AND I KNOW YOU LOVE ME . FROM THIS MOMENT ON I CANT PROMISE THAT I WILL BE SINLESS BUT I WOULD REALLY LOVE FOR YOU TO KNOW THAT MORE THAN ANYTHING IN MY LIFE I LOVE YOU JESUS AND ABOUT WHAT BROTHER ROGER MORNEU SAID I WAS WONDERING IF I COULD HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU LORD BUT ONLY IF IT IS PLEASING IN YOUR SIGHT. I WANT TO PRAY BECAUSE I LOVE YOU NOT BECAUSE I HAVE TO, I WANT TO GO TO CHURCH BECAUSE I WANT TO NOT BECAUSE MY MUM ASKED ME TO, I WANT TO READ THE BIBLE NOT BECAUSE YOU ADVISED US TO BUT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE IT. I WANT YOUR HOLY SPIRIT TO DWELL WITH ME FOREVER UNTIL THE END OF THE WORLD SO SATAN WONT BOTHER ME, LIKE YOU SAID IN

                  Luke 11:9-10
                  Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks, it will be opened.

                  I WANT YOU TO PROVE TO ME THAT YOU ARE WHO YOU ARE CAUSE I LOVE YOU AND I WANT THE TRUTH TO SET ME FREE SO WILL PLEASE ANSWER MY PRAYER.

                  that wasnt the end of everything, i then opened my eyes and for the first time in my life i felt Jesus's presence and its not like any other presence its different. it left me singing this song

                  Amazing Grace Lyrics.


                  "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
                  That saved a wretch like me....
                  I once was lost but now am found,
                  Was blind, but now, I see.




                  i felt at peace and longed to sing another song so began to sing

                  I'm forgiven because You were forsaken
                  I'm accepted, You were condemned
                  I'm alive and well, Youre spirit lives within me
                  Because you died and rose again

                  Amazing Love, how can it be?
                  That you, my King, would die for me
                  Amazing Love, I know it's true
                  And it's my joy to honor you
                  In all I do, I honor You

                  I donít know about the way you guys feel about Allah but i wouldnít leave Jesus for the world cause more than anything i feel in my heart I Love him and i will do so to the end of my days and knowing that he loves me to keeps me smiling all day long believe me.

                  Acts 4:12 >>
                  "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

                  if you are free then you are in the right direction keep praying 5 times a day and I will keep talking to Jesus whenever i want and believe me after receiving his spirit I donít pray that much ANYMORE BUT I TALKK TO HIM, I HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM AND I FEEL PRIVILAGED.
                  UNFORTUNATEL UNLIKE THE QURAN THE BIBLE DOSENT SAY ANYTHING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT MUSLIMS BUT I AM SORRY TO SAY THAT IF YOU REJECT JESUS THEN YOU ARE REJECTING YOUR OWN SOUL.

                  LOVE YOU ALL THOUGH I DONT KNOW YOU THANK YOU SO MUCH GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU FOREVER!

                  my intentions were never to offend them all i wanted them to do was understand christ and christianity and then they started saying all the horribkle staff about christianity about how its just a fairytale story and that we should move on to the quran since its the final book, thats the thing that pushed me to writting my testimony. one of them replied and said it was all an exxageration but i know better i wouldt go round lying to people just to convert to christianity. after all things that are started by a lie will end as a lie, Jesu Christ wasnt a liar so although i know he wants me to spread his word i know he dosnt want me to lie about it.

                  the last reply.


                  Hi Vicky

                  No exaggeration, i do not even have the time to read that, let alone answer it.
                  Things would have been a lot cleaner, if from the start we had made the rules clear.
                  My brother in islaam (Qatada) sent you a message yesterday, i am not sure whether you have read it, if/or you understood it, if/or you ignored it.
                  Also, if you had read the "Small intro for the forum" thread in the announcement section, things would have been clear. This applys to sister Maysun also.

                  Let me extract the relevant bit.
                  Quote:
                  There will be no debates in the actual forum against Non Muslims. That isn't it's aim. It's simply a TRAINING GROUND.
                  When people feel comfortable, we will send packs/groups of people to give dawah in a specific site.
                  Or
                  Someone will ask for help from another forum/site, so we will send a pack of Muslims to defend them insha Allaah.
                  And it's Allaah's help we seek.
                  It says that in our introduction, in this thread.
                  Also, if you go into depth, you will realise, that the original intention of iDawah, was to be a place for muslims only. this is not to be-little you, but our method of debating, and exhortation, was never supposed to take place on iDawah. it is an agreement, and a promise, we made from the very beginning, before we even created the site, that it would be for muslims, only.
                  You are more than welcome to invite us to another forum ,and we would continue answering you questions there, but on iDawah, there will be no debates, from this post onwards.
                  if you know no other forum, then use the link Qatada gave you, there are also, jews/Atheists/Christians on this forum.
                  as well as that, you have the added bonus, that most of us are registered there anyway.
                  Therefore, it as a duty on me, to relieve your posting permissions on this forum. It is not out of envy, nor out of being dumb-struck by your questions, i would love to answer them, but i cannot break the forum rules, layed out by myself and the other admins, it would be inappropriate. It is a matter of being firm in our decisions, and sticking strictly, to the place we hope iDawah turns out to be.
                  You are more than welcome to browse here as a guest, and we would encourage that
                  Thanks for your time here, and i hope in your short stay, you have benefitted.
                  "If Allah helps you, none can overcome you: If He forsakes you, who is there, after that, that can help you? In Allah, then, Let believers put their trust."
                  Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good (Islam) - enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: And it is they who are the successful.
                  i dont know what to think of everything but if you could read all my posts you weeould realize that i asked a question, a yes or nio question but none of them answered. i sent about 10 posts asking the same question and i got nothing but horrible comments about christianity. i dont know what to think but i wish there was a way that we could reach their hearts and tell them the truth. i am not allowed there anymore and like it says from the last reply there no one else is apart from muslims. icant believe that they think that christianity disrepect Jesus. and they say that cause in the bible there is that part when Jesus was twelve and was forgotten by his parents in a temple. when they came to look for him and jesus said, WHY ARE YOU WORRIED FOR I AM IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE.also they claim that everything in the bible that dosent agree with the quran is a lie.BUT NOW I KNOW THE REASON WHY THEY COULDNT ANSWER MY QUESTION. CAUSE EITHER WAY THEY WOULD HAVE TO DENY THEIR OWN FAITH.
                  WAS JESUS GOOD?
                  YES- THEN HE IS GOD
                  NO-THEN WHAT SIN DID HE COMMIT

                  its harder for them to answer it without denying their faith.but i just want them to know the truth thats all.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow, seems you were allowed to enter the Horse race, but denied the use of your own Horse.

                    I guess you just have to chalk it up as experience Vicky.
                    Don't be so sure you haven't reached at least one person there. The Lord works in mysterious ways !
                    Last edited by IamBill; Apr 23rd 2008, 02:46 PM. Reason: can't spell :)
                    .
                    .
                    .
                    "Let no man deceive you"

                    I also am "man" - this includes myself !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've just read your testimony, and I must say, I'm so moved! What a wonderful prayer. You keep right on loving Jesus Vicky, and I'm so glad that you spoke up for Him.

                      Regarding the Muslim forum, I had a similar experience on a Jewish forum, and it made me very depressed. They kept attacking the person of Jesus as well as Christians. Muslims at least won't call Jesus names. In the end I realised that the only way I could continue to post on the forum would be to compromise what I was trying to say, there was no room for debate. So I had to leave. It's made me very sad for the folks on it.

                      One thing I would say is this... and there will be people laugh at me, but it's true. When someone who has time to moderate a forum refuses to read a post about Jesus because they "don't have time", that's not them, that's a demon speaking. Sometimes when you testify about Jesus, you'll see nice normal people freeze up and turn cold, or angry, or abusive. I used to be like that. I do believe that there are demons trying to prevent people from hearing the gospel. But we serve a mighty God, and you don't know who might have read your testimony on that site. Muslims don't feel that they are intimately connected to God through Jesus, and I can only hope that someone read your words, and envied your experience.

                      Thank you for sharing this Vicky... and I don't think I've said hello yet, but HELLO!
                      Please could everyone pray for Mieke and Charles.

                      My testimony http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthr...ight=testimony

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by vicky View Post
                        i am new here and i need some christian help, i am a christian myself but my muslim friend told me to join this site which is very similar to this only its about islam so people would answer my questins about islam but i am having trouble answering them and i feel like i am making Jesus look bad. is it true that the bible was changed is theere any proof?
                        Their bible is changed. They use a later version written supposedly by their prophet. For instance in Genesis they only see Abraham with two sons, when he had eight sons.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Recommendation

                          I will not here try to give you any answers but can recommend some resources for study on this topic. I will make only a short list.

                          For Islam
                          Norman L. Geisler and Abdul Saleeb:Answering Islam
                          Walter Martin:Correcting The Cults
                          Ergun Caner:Unveiling Islam
                          R.C. Sproul and Abdul Saleeb:The Dark Side Of Islam
                          See Authors: Ergun Caner\Abdul Saleeb both former muslims

                          For The Bible
                          Norman L. Geisler and William E. Nix:A General Introduction To The Bible
                          Norman L. Geisler and Frank Turek:I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Athiest
                          Norman L. Geisler:Systematic Theology
                          See Author: Bruce Metzger expert on Biblical Text

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