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  • Baptist question???

    What are the differences in Refromed and Independent Baptist?? I can't really find anything to distinguish the 2.. thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by GaChristian View Post
    What are the differences in Refromed and Independent Baptist?? I can't really find anything to distinguish the 2.. thanks.
    Well...

    This is a tough one. You have to know the churches. I am not sure what the Reformed teach but I can give you some differances in the independent.

    The reason I say you have to know the independent churches:
    • There is an Independent/Fundamental Association that a lot are known as Independent Baptist Churches. These usually stick to the KJV version of the Bible and are very structured in their teaching and have high christian standards for their flock (I think this is a good thing). Most of the churches vote on missionaries to support, that are within their association.
    • Normal beliefs; Baptisim for membership, 3 services a week, closed or close communion, security of the saints, literal heaven and hell, invitation at both Sunday services, Trinity, and Jesus is the head of the body with the Bible as His perfect word.
    • There are Independent Baptist like the one that I am a member of that does not belong to an association and pretty much teaches the same but are not restricted to associational guidelines. This can be good or bad depending on the leadership within the flock. An advantage is that we are able to support missionaries from many other groups that are trying to spread God's word. This disadvantage is that if the church started to crumble there is no association to help and the church could go into more liberal teachings if it was lead that way.
    i have preached for Southern, Independent/Fundamental, Missionary, Regular, and now just Independant Baptist. i have also preached in Methodist and Bible churches.

    What I have found is that it is far more important to find out what the leaders within the church teach (as most Baptist Churches are ruled within the church) than to go by the sign out front.

    I hope this helps.

    I'll be watching to see if someone knows about the Reformed Baptist.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
      Well...

      This is a tough one. You have to know the churches. I am not sure what the Reformed teach but I can give you some differances in the independent.

      The reason I say you have to know the independent churches:
      • There is an Independent/Fundamental Association that a lot are known as Independent Baptist Churches. These usually stick to the KJV version of the Bible and are very structured in their teaching and have high christian standards for their flock (I think this is a good thing). Most of the churches vote on missionaries to support, that are within their association.
      • Normal beliefs; Baptisim for membership, 3 services a week, closed or close communion, security of the saints, literal heaven and hell, invitation at both Sunday services, Trinity, and Jesus is the head of the body with the Bible as His perfect word.
      • There are Independent Baptist like the one that I am a member of that does not belong to an association and pretty much teaches the same but are not restricted to associational guidelines. This can be good or bad depending on the leadership within the flock. An advantage is that we are able to support missionaries from many other groups that are trying to spread God's word. This disadvantage is that if the church started to crumble there is no association to help and the church could go into more liberal teachings if it was lead that way.
      i have preached for Southern, Independent/Fundamental, Missionary, Regular, and now just Independant Baptist. i have also preached in Methodist and Bible churches.

      What I have found is that it is far more important to find out what the leaders within the church teach (as most Baptist Churches are ruled within the church) than to go by the sign out front.

      I hope this helps.

      I'll be watching to see if someone knows about the Reformed Baptist.
      Who would have thought that I could be such good buddies with a Southern, Independent, Fundamental, Missionary Baptist. Most of these kind ride me pretty hard about my beliefs. I don't know why, though?????

      But I know that you never will!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 2 Peter 2:20 View Post
        Who would have thought that I could be such good buddies with a Southern, Independent, Fundamental, Missionary Baptist. Most of these kind ride me pretty hard about my beliefs. I don't know why, though?????

        But I know that you never will!!
        Maybe it's because they have not seen your heart and like you, enjoy the debates!

        It seems the closest brothers love to wrestle. Maybe you are a Baptist and just have not admitted it to yourself

        Either way I am pretty sure you are my brother!

        Now get up on the fence with me

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Buck shot View Post
          Maybe it's because they have not seen your heart and like you, enjoy the debates!

          It seems the closest brothers love to wrestle. Maybe you are a Baptist and just have not admitted it to yourself

          Either way I am pretty sure you are my brother!

          Now get up on the fence with me
          And maybe you are NOSAS but haven't admitted it.

          Freewill Baptist...maybe but that's about as close as I can get.

          Actually I have visited a Fundamental, Independent, Missionary Baptist church and really enjoyed it...minus the 1611 KJV only and the OSAS statements every 5 minutes.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by GaChristian View Post
            What are the differences in Refromed and Independent Baptist?? I can't really find anything to distinguish the 2.. thanks.
            Do you mean regarding reformed doctrine? A Reformed Baptist Church would be distinguished by the "Reformed" doctrine, something along the lines of Calvinism. I don't think the Independant Baptists are reformed.

            Also, though I am not absolutely sure about this, I would say that an Independent Baptist would probably not say they are Protestant, but a Reformed Baptist is Protestant by definition.

            I hope that helps.

            God Bless!
            Watchinginawe

            I Samuel 3:10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by watchinginawe View Post
              Do you mean regarding reformed doctrine? A Reformed Baptist Church would be distinguished by the "Reformed" doctrine, something along the lines of Calvinism. I don't think the Independant Baptists are reformed.

              Also, though I am not absolutely sure about this, I would say that an Independent Baptist would probably not say they are Protestant, but a Reformed Baptist is Protestant by definition.

              I hope that helps.

              God Bless!
              Some might not call themselves Protestant but the teachings are almost the same. We are all saved by the one and only "I AM".

              I have heard many Baptist teach that the Baptist Churches did not come from the reformation period and were around before the "Anabaptist" name was given to them for not baptizing infants.

              You can do a wikipedia search of the anabaptist and see the supposed origins. I was taught in Baptist Seminary the origins traced all the way back to the split of the true Church and the Catholic Church when the first Pope came to power.

              The problem with that is that if we call those churches that were in fact teaching against the Papal authority our origins, then the churches today are also part of our "church" if they make the same stands. I think we put too much into our denominations.

              All of that being said, "history" should be "His Story" and not ours.

              What I have learned is that many churches that do not call themselves baptist have the same doctrines as the baptist church. It surprised me at first but then the Lord poked me in the heart. It was like He was saying " Hey dummy, I wrote the same book to teach you all".

              I still cannot help you with what the differance in the teachings of the reformed or independant churches are. It could be as small a differance as how they pick their missionaries. That is the only differance in the Texas Southern Baptist and Texas Missionary Baptist (BMA not ABA).

              I can't wait until we are all united as one church one day!

              Comment


              • #8
                My own position would be Reformed Baptist, although I don't attend such a church at present. There are a number of excellent Christians leaders from the Puritans onwards who were Reformed Baptists - here's just a few:-

                John Bunyan
                John Gill
                The Haldane brothers
                Wiliam Carey
                CH Spurgeon
                AW Pink
                Peter Masters
                John MacArthur
                John Piper
                Wayne Grudem
                DA Carson
                Alistair Begg
                Al Mohler (OK, I know he's SBC but that's his theology)
                Mark Dever

                Basically they will adhere to the 1689 London Confession - some (eg Particular or Grace Baptists) will be second degree separatist (pretty well having no fellowship with anyone but themselves) but many (like Piper, Carson and Grudem) have a very wide appeal and influence.

                I accept I'm talking about those who are Reformed Baptist in their doctrine, but not necessarily within a Reformed Baptist denomination.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I grew up in an Independent Baptist church. They are not reformed in the sense that they believe all 5 points of Calvinism. They do hold to some of them though. The biggest issue I have with the church I attended was they took traditions of men and made them doctrines of God by calling them "standards".
                  Matt 9:13
                  13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
                  NASU

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i had a presbyterian once tell me that there is no such thing as a 3 point calvinist...

                    I find some parts of it unbiblical... but that's not for here
                    The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                      i had a presbyterian once tell me that there is no such thing as a 3 point calvinist...

                      I find some parts of it unbiblical... but that's not for here
                      Hmm - not sure that's so off topic! We are talking about the differences between Independent and Reformed Baptist Churches, so I think it is relevant to look at these Reformned doctrines - the Mods of this board will no doubt chime in if we're going TOO off topic!

                      So, which parts of Calvinism do you think are unbiblical? There are verses for all five points, so I'd be interested to see where you think it becomes unbiblical....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i would rather not open that can of worms in this section of the forums.... This wouldn't be all that bad a subject for the Bible Chat section....

                        i would rather keep things light in this section of the forums.... this is supposed to be fun section right?
                        The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                          i would rather not open that can of worms in this section of the forums.... This wouldn't be all that bad a subject for the Bible Chat section....

                          i would rather keep things light in this section of the forums.... this is supposed to be fun section right?
                          Who says debating doctrine can't be fun?!?! Or done in a fun way?!?!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 9Marksfan View Post
                            Who says debating doctrine can't be fun?!?! Or done in a fun way?!?!
                            I'm not mature enough in my walk as a Christian to consider debating doctrine fun... I am here to sharpen myself on what I believe... I still get frustrated when I debate... I usually leave drained and frustrated... I have a hard time getting up from a debate and just saying "Oh Boy, that was fun!"...
                            The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by timmyb View Post
                              I'm not mature enough in my walk as a Christian to consider debating doctrine fun... I am here to sharpen myself on what I believe... I still get frustrated when I debate... I usually leave drained and frustrated... I have a hard time getting up from a debate and just saying "Oh Boy, that was fun!"...
                              OK, didn't mean to belittle things - I agree. But I believe that it's possible to sharpen one's faith by examining these things in a non-confrontational way - I guess fun was the wrong word - sorry - I'm actually not sure Solomon's Porch is either meant to be just fun or whether this thread is on the right board! But either way, the differences between Independent and Reformed Baptists are largely doctrinal, so if that isn't what the OP or others were expecting, then maybe it should go onto another board - any ideas Mods?

                              Comment

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