Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Replacement Theology

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Replacement Theology

    What are your thoughts on replacement theology? I'm not exactly sure of all the "ins and outs" of this doctrine, but I am interested to hear.


    Z.
    "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)



  • #2
    There is no such doctrine.

    It is a pejorative term that a very small minority of dispensationalists
    use to assail non-dispensationalists.

    I've been a member on this board for nearly 5 years and never seen anyone here posting infavor of replacement theology....it is always brought up by dispensationalists as a red herring against an evil invisible foe.

    Non-dispensationalists here reject replacement theology just as much as our resident dispensationalists.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
      There is no such doctrine.
      Yes there is, it's called successionism. And it has been taught by a great many teachers which I respect very much, although I don't agree with them on this subject. Some of my favorite teachers and apologists teach successionism, D. James Kennedy, Hank Hannegraaff, and R.C. Sproul Jr. for example. However, I don't agree with them when it comes to their replacement theology teachings.

      They teach that the Church is the New Israel, a continuation of the concept of Israel from the Old Testament. This view teaches that the Church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian Church, not in biblical, literal, Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Land of Promise are "spiritualized" into promises of God's blessing for the Church. The prophecies of condemnation and judgment, however, still remain for national Israel and the Jewish people. This view has been called Replacement Theology because the Church replaces Israel in the program of God. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, there being no future for the Jewish nation, how do we account for the supernatural survival of the Jewish people, Israel's rebirth among the gentile nations, victories in major wars with the Arabs and a flourishing modern democratic Jewish state?

      How did the thinking in the Church change toward Israel? Slowly, the Gentile majority in the Church began to view Israel as a relic of the past. With spiritual competition between the two groups, we can see why the Church adopted the view that it was the new Israel. The view of the Church was that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD was brought about divinely, that God had ordained the end of Jewish unbelieving Israel. Since Jerusalem was in ruins and the Jewish people were scattered throughout the world, it seemed evident that God was finished with national Israel. Theologians now proposed that Israel in the Scriptures did not really mean literal Israel, instead, it meant the Church. The Church now became the new Israel and through this spiritualization, wherever blessings are spoken of to Israel in the Old Testament, it was interpreted to mean the Church. In essence they simply replaced Israel with the Church. Replacement Theology become the position of the Church during the time of Augustine (A.D. 354-430), who popularized it in his book The City of God.

      Comment


      • #4
        Really....there are professed believers that reject the restoration of the twelve tribes of Israel spiritually (inserting christians) and physically in the land God gave them.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
          There is no such doctrine.
          I also disagree. Not only is there such a doctrine, there is a biblical FACT that proves the original Jews were replaced as God's wife by Christians who are now wedded to Christ. Jesus Christ is the difference.
          1Peter 3:15
          (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

          Comment


          • #6
            • Peter said Israel wasn't nor ever would be replaced.


            Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.



            • Paul said believing Gentiles are joined in together with believing Israel.

            Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;




            • Jesus ends racial divides

            Galatians 3:25 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.


            Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord"




            • As you can see from the scriptures, no-one is replaced; only joined to.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sparrow hawk View Post
              They teach that the Church is the New Israel, a continuation of the concept of Israel from the Old Testament. This view teaches that the Church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian Church, not in biblical, literal, Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Land of Promise are "spiritualized" into promises of God's blessing for the Church. The prophecies of condemnation and judgment, however, still remain for national Israel and the Jewish people. This view has been called Replacement Theology because the Church replaces Israel in the program of God. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, there being no future for the Jewish nation, how do we account for the supernatural survival of the Jewish people, Israel's rebirth among the gentile nations, victories in major wars with the Arabs and a flourishing modern democratic Jewish state?
              God does not fit into human notions of reality. It's the other way around, and politicians must and will learn humility. The present state of Israel is nothing to do with God, any more than Albania or Zaire is. The very name of Israel is an awful misnomer. The present state arose from secular forces, through political agitation and manoeuvring, not a Joshua of any sort. 'Israel' today is a worldly state doing worldly things (and quite often in disobedience of natural law and conscience).

              There is no such thing as a Jew unless he is a Christian. And if well over 2000 years of silence for 'the Jews' does not tell them something, and if the total destruction of everything of Moses, Joshua and David for most of that time does not tell them something, I don't know what can. One might surmise that the only reason to continue to be a 'Jew' is to oppose Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah; and, were the church to disappear, 'Judaism' would also.

              God has not condemned Israel or anyone else. He holds out his arms for all, 'Jew', Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and most Westerners with their hypocritical veneer of Christianity. God has only two categories: saints, and non-saints, though Paul's view was that the promises made to Israel (Jacob) would eventually take effect. That's another subject, but Paul was crystal clear that the OT practices were but a shadow of what pertains in Christ. So the Promised Land, for which a passing piece of earthly surface was a model, is really eternal life in the eternal heavenly 'places'. In every respect, the model that was Israel has its counterpart, its reality, in the church. Incense represented prayer, sacrifice pre-figured the cross, manna, lamps, bread, you name it, all of it is fulfilled in Christ and his church.

              One can play with a model train, or one can get on a real one. Those who wish to chase 'shadows', living in darkness, may do so, of course.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wenlock View Post
                God does not fit into human notions of reality. It's the other way around, and politicians must and will learn humility. The present state of Israel is nothing to do with God, any more than Albania or Zaire is. The very name of Israel is an awful misnomer. The present state arose from secular forces, through political agitation and manoeuvring, not a Joshua of any sort. 'Israel' today is a worldly state doing worldly things (and quite often in disobedience of natural law and conscience).

                There is no such thing as a Jew unless he is a Christian. And if well over 2000 years of silence for 'the Jews' does not tell them something, and if the total destruction of everything of Moses, Joshua and David for most of that time does not tell them something, I don't know what can. One might surmise that the only reason to continue to be a 'Jew' is to oppose Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah; and, were the church to disappear, 'Judaism' would also.

                God has not condemned Israel or anyone else. He holds out his arms for all, 'Jew', Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and most Westerners with their hypocritical veneer of Christianity. God has only two categories: saints, and non-saints, though Paul's view was that the promises made to Israel (Jacob) would eventually take effect. That's another subject, but Paul was crystal clear that the OT practices were but a shadow of what pertains in Christ. So the Promised Land, for which a passing piece of earthly surface was a model, is really eternal life in the eternal heavenly 'places'. In every respect, the model that was Israel has its counterpart, its reality, in the church. Incense represented prayer, sacrifice pre-figured the cross, manna, lamps, bread, you name it, all of it is fulfilled in Christ and his church.

                One can play with a model train, or one can get on a real one. Those who wish to chase 'shadows', living in darkness, may do so, of course.
                Absolutely spot on! My term for this is "fulfillment theology" which I believe is a more accurate term for this very Biblical and correct analysis of what the NT teaches.

                Comment


                • #9
                  David Taylor, I would imagine, is pointing out that basically nobody (or nobody) on this board believes that God has replaced Jews with Gentiles as the people of God. Often, as he pointed out, when the term 'replacement theology' is being utilized it is by dispensationalists trying to make non-dispensationalists sound anti-semitic.

                  There is little to no debate on this board or in the church that BOTH believing Jews AND believing Gentiles are, today, what make up the people of God. There is some debate as to whether the Jewish people, as a distinct group, will convert to Christ at the end of the age. But denying such a mass & last-second conversion is not really well described as 'replacement theology,' since Jews are welcome into the Kingdom of God at all times on the exact same terms as everyone else.
                  The Matthew Never Knew
                  The Knew Kingdom

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by thepenitent View Post
                    Absolutely spot on! My term for this is "fulfillment theology" which I believe is a more accurate term for this very Biblical and correct analysis of what the NT teaches.
                    'Fulfillment' is much better, thanks.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wenlock View Post
                      'Fulfillment' is much better, thanks.
                      I've also heard the terms: "Completion Theology" and "Adoption Theology"....both better denote the concept.

                      "Replacement" is just a slur that doesn't accurate describe anything.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Rev.21:
                        12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

                        Yeah, Replacement Theology, when I get to the new Jerusalem i'm going to replace their names with mind.

                        Beck

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by matthew94 View Post
                          David Taylor, I would imagine, is pointing out that basically nobody (or nobody) on this board believes that God has replaced Jews with Gentiles as the people of God. Often, as he pointed out, when the term 'replacement theology' is being utilized it is by dispensationalists trying to make non-dispensationalists sound anti-semitic.

                          There is little to no debate on this board or in the church that BOTH believing Jews AND believing Gentiles are, today, what make up the people of God. There is some debate as to whether the Jewish people, as a distinct group, will convert to Christ at the end of the age. But denying such a mass & last-second conversion is not really well described as 'replacement theology,' since Jews are welcome into the Kingdom of God at all times on the exact same terms as everyone else.
                          Matthew, I was told that Replacement Theology was a forbidden subject on this board and that no debate about this subject would be allowed. Was I mistaken?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by David Taylor View Post
                            • Peter said Israel wasn't nor ever would be replaced.

                            Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.



                            It surely doesn't say no one won't be replaced. The important part of those verses is "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins"

                            which a majority of Jews refuse to do. And there is a consequence for those Jews that refuse Christ which you quoted:






                            Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


                            "if some of the branches be broken off"

                            Why would some be broken off?


                            Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
                            Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

                            The natural branchjes are Jews but unbelief will cause God to brake them off of Israel, not sparing them.

                            So we have an Israel that believes in Christ, with gentile believers being graffed in and unbelieving Jews being cast away. Now, "replacement theology" is a name created by those that opose the concept spoken of in Romans 11 but be it that name or any number of other terms, there is a braking off and casting off from thje tree of Israel along with a graffing onto that same tree of believing gentiles. Technically there is no replacing, just adding and removing of the good and bad.

                            Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
                            Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
                            Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

                            Without Christ you are a gentile in God's eyes. "those who are of the flesh, these are not the children of God" as Paul teaches.
                            • Jesus ends racial divides

                            Indeed!


                            • As you can see from the scriptures, no-one is replaced; only joined to.

                            As I said above: Technically there is no replacing, just adding and removing of the good and bad.
                            1Peter 3:15
                            (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Naphal View Post
                              I also disagree. Not only is there such a doctrine, there is a biblical FACT that proves the original Jews were replaced as God's wife by Christians who are now wedded to Christ. Jesus Christ is the difference.
                              Nonsense. Gentile believers are grafted in with Jewish believers. No one is replaced. Some were broken off and some are grafted in, as it talks about in Romans 11. The ones grafted in do not replace the ones broken off. Even if none were broken off Gentile believers would still be grafted in so it has nothing to do with anyone being replaced.

                              Originally posted by Naphal
                              Technically there is no replacing, just adding and removing of the good and bad.
                              Okay, please make up your mind. Do you think anyone is replaced or not?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X