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  • Sunday...where did it really come from?

    I think the following quotes from a number of church historians may be of interest to all who seek to know the truth.

    “Sunday (dies solis. . . .’day of the sun,’ because dedicated to the sun), the
    first day of the week, was adopted by the early Christians as a day of
    worship. The ‘sun’ of Latin adoration they interpreted as the ‘Sun of
    Righteousness.’ . . . . No regulations for its observance are laid down in the
    New Testament, nor, indeed, is its observance even enjoined.” The Schaff-
    Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, (New York: Funk &
    Wagnalls, volume 4, article, ‘Sunday,’ third edition, 1891), p. 2259.

    its numbered week days, but by the close of the third century A. D. this
    began to give way to the planetary week; and in the fourth and fifth
    centuries the pagan designations became generally accepted in the western
    half of Christendom. The use of the planetary names by Christians attests
    the growing influence of astrological speculations introduced by converts
    from paganism. . . . During these same centuries the spread of Oriental
    solar worship, especially that of Mithra, in the Roman world, had already
    led to the substitution by pagans of dies solis for dies Saturni, as the first
    day of the planetary week. . . . Thus gradually a pagan institution was
    ingrafted on Christianity.” Hutton Webster, Ph. D., Rest Days (New York:
    Macmillan & Co., 1916), pp. 220, 221.

    “The Gentiles were an idolatrous people who worshiped the sun, and
    Sunday was their most sacred day. Now, in order to reach the people in this
    new field, it seems but natural, as well as necessary, to make Sunday the
    rest day of the Church. At this time it was necessary for the Church to
    either adopt the Gentiles’ day or else have the Gentiles change their day.
    To change the Gentiles’ day would have been an offense and stumbling
    block to them. The Church could naturally reach them better by keeping
    their day.” Dr. William Frederick, Sunday and the Christian Sabbath, pp.
    169, 170.

    “The Church made a sacred day of Sunday. . . . largely because it was the
    weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over
    the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to given them a
    Christian significance.” Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity
    (New York: G. P. Putnam’s Sons, copyright in 1928), p. 145.

    Regards
    Brakelite
    Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and
    rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

  • #2
    Originally posted by brakelite View Post
    I think the following quotes from a number of church historians may be of interest to all who seek to know the truth.

    “Sunday (dies solis. . . .’day of the sun,’ because dedicated to the sun), the
    first day of the week, was adopted by the early Christians as a day of
    worship. The ‘sun’ of Latin adoration they interpreted as the ‘Sun of
    Righteousness.’ . . . . No regulations for its observance are laid down in the
    New Testament, nor, indeed, is its observance even enjoined.” The Schaff-
    Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, (New York: Funk &
    Wagnalls, volume 4, article, ‘Sunday,’ third edition, 1891), p. 2259.

    its numbered week days, but by the close of the third century A. D. this
    began to give way to the planetary week; and in the fourth and fifth
    centuries the pagan designations became generally accepted in the western
    half of Christendom. The use of the planetary names by Christians attests
    the growing influence of astrological speculations introduced by converts
    from paganism. . . . During these same centuries the spread of Oriental
    solar worship, especially that of Mithra, in the Roman world, had already
    led to the substitution by pagans of dies solis for dies Saturni, as the first
    day of the planetary week. . . . Thus gradually a pagan institution was
    ingrafted on Christianity.” Hutton Webster, Ph. D., Rest Days (New York:
    Macmillan & Co., 1916), pp. 220, 221.

    “The Gentiles were an idolatrous people who worshiped the sun, and
    Sunday was their most sacred day. Now, in order to reach the people in this
    new field, it seems but natural, as well as necessary, to make Sunday the
    rest day of the Church. At this time it was necessary for the Church to
    either adopt the Gentiles’ day or else have the Gentiles change their day.
    To change the Gentiles’ day would have been an offense and stumbling
    block to them. The Church could naturally reach them better by keeping
    their day.” Dr. William Frederick, Sunday and the Christian Sabbath, pp.
    169, 170.

    “The Church made a sacred day of Sunday. . . . largely because it was the
    weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over
    the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to given them a
    Christian significance.” Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity
    (New York: G. P. Putnam’s Sons, copyright in 1928), p. 145.

    Regards
    Brakelite
    Brak,

    I do not deny pagan influences came into part of the Church, that part which came to be called 'Catholic'.

    They had a mission. They wanted to change the world. But they did not rely on God's wisdom, but man's. They thought they need to help the Holy Spirit by making Christianity more attractive to pagans. SO they reworked some pagan ideas with a Christian taint.

    BUt 'sun day' had its bases in Scripture. It is from the prophet, 'The Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings.'

    Christ rose on Sunday. Therefore we worship on that day. I see no problem with this!

    2Witnesses

    Comment


    • #3
      Let us also not forget the first Sunday!


      Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
      Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
      Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

      It wasn't the day the Sun was created but there was LIGHT!
      1Peter 3:15
      (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

      Comment


      • #4
        The teaching of the Bible is plain. The Law of Moses, which included the sabbath commandment, was to the nation of Israel only. It lasted as a binding law until Christ died on the cross. The Law of Christ, which began at Pentecost, is God’s law for all mankind today. The Law of Christ teaches that we are to meet on Sunday, the first day of the week. This is the day upon which our Lord arose from the dead (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2-6; Luke 24:1; John 20:1). The day upon which the church began, Pentecost day, also was on the first day of the week (Leviticus 23:9-16). Therefore, we can see why the Lord chose the first day of the week as the day of worship for Christians.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by godsgirl View Post
          The teaching of the Bible is plain. The Law of Moses, which included the sabbath commandment, was to the nation of Israel only. It lasted as a binding law until Christ died on the cross. The Law of Christ, which began at Pentecost, is God’s law for all mankind today. The Law of Christ teaches that we are to meet on Sunday, the first day of the week. This is the day upon which our Lord arose from the dead (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2-6; Luke 24:1; John 20:1). The day upon which the church began, Pentecost day, also was on the first day of the week (Leviticus 23:9-16). Therefore, we can see why the Lord chose the first day of the week as the day of worship for Christians.
          Then please explain how you obviously so clearly understand this theory, but the apostolic church didn't?
          Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and
          rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by brakelite View Post
            Then please explain how you obviously so clearly understand this theory, but the apostolic church didn't?
            I thought they met on every day of the week, including Sunday. All days are fine for worship. Paul pretty much summed up my feeling on days in Romans.

            Rom 14:5-8
            5 One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. 7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; 8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
            NASB

            If someone wishes to observe Sunday as unto the Lord, by all means observe Sunday unto the Lord. That was the teaching of the apostles.
            Matt 9:13
            13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
            NASU

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by brakelite View Post
              I think the following quotes from a number of church historians may be of interest to all who seek to know the truth.

              “The Church made a sacred day of Sunday. . . . largely because it was the
              weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over
              the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to given them a
              Christian significance.” Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity
              (New York: G. P. Putnam’s Sons, copyright in 1928), p. 145.

              Regards
              Brakelite
              Our Sabbatarian friend must resort to quoting losers like Arthur Weigall because he cannot find legitimate historians that push his nonsense. The Watchtower also quotes from Mr. Weigall to promote their anti-Trinitarian nonsense. Weigall thinks everything “Judeo-Christian” is of a pagan origin including the Jewish Sabbath. Whoops brakelite it looks like you either didn't do your homework or your SDA website forgot to quote all of Weigall's quote. Is he correct - was the Sabbath pagan or was it from God? Are you a "moon worshipper"?
              "I have, already mentioned that Sunday, too, was a pagan holy-day; and in this chapter I propose to discuss the origin of this custom of keeping one day in the week as a Sabbath, or "day of rest,' and' to show that the practice was forcefully opposed by Jesus Christ. The origin of the seven-day week which was used by the Jews and certain other peoples, but not till, later by the Greeks or Romans, is to be sought in some primitive worship of the moon (The Paganism in Our Christianity, Arthur Weigall)

              I will leave you with a quote from the same book referenced above regarding the “Trinity”. I wonder if our friend also agrees with Weigall’s notion that the triune God is a pagan invention.
              "Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity' appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord."-The Paganism in Our Christianity."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by losthorizon View Post
                Our Sabbatarian friend must resort to quoting losers like Arthur Weigall because he cannot find legitimate historians that push his nonsense. The Watchtower also quotes from Mr. Weigall to promote their anti-Trinitarian nonsense. Weigall thinks everything “Judeo-Christian” is of a pagan origin including the Jewish Sabbath. Whoops brakelite it looks like you either didn't do your homework or your SDA website forgot to quote all of Weigall's quote. Is he correct - was the Sabbath pagan or was it from God? Are you a "moon worshipper"?
                "I have, already mentioned that Sunday, too, was a pagan holy-day; and in this chapter I propose to discuss the origin of this custom of keeping one day in the week as a Sabbath, or "day of rest,' and' to show that the practice was forcefully opposed by Jesus Christ. The origin of the seven-day week which was used by the Jews and certain other peoples, but not till, later by the Greeks or Romans, is to be sought in some primitive worship of the moon (The Paganism in Our Christianity, Arthur Weigall)

                I will leave you with a quote from the same book referenced above regarding the “Trinity”. I wonder if our friend also agrees with Weigall’s notion that the triune God is a pagan invention.
                "Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word 'Trinity' appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord."-The Paganism in Our Christianity."
                Even Christian denominations with which we may disagree on the most part hold to the teachings in other areas in which we would agree with them that is truth. Acceptance of the trinity by the RCC is an obvious example. We may not agree with them on many issues, but on the trinity, they are spot on.

                I'll be honest. I had no idea who Weigall was. I certainly do not agree with his views on the Sabbath,(if indeed your quote is contextually correct) nor do I agree with him re the trinity. But the quote I used for this discussion I believe to be absolutely accurate.
                And he is not the only source for that information regarding pagan practices within Christianity. Nor is the fact that paganism is rife throughout
                Christianity an uncommon belief. Christmas, the Christmas tree, Easter, the Easter egg,the Easter bunny, sunrise services, hot cross buns, all borrowed from Baal worship. And I know that most of us are totally aware of that, but we don't incorporate it into our worship as of a necessity, nor do we claim that any of it is Biblical.
                Sunday however is a different kettle of fish altogether. It is thoroughly pagan in origin, and the church claims it as God inspired. Regardless of the fact that Sunday as a blessed, sanctified, holy day, has absolutely no foundation in the scripture record.If Weigall is insufficient as a reliable source however then would you consider the following comments with respect to Sunday?
                First, just as a means to establish that not only Sabbath observers read the Bible and come to the conclusion they do.

                "For when there could not be produced one solitary place in the Holy Scriptures which testified that either the Lord Himself or the apostles had ordered such a transfer of the Sabbath to Sunday,then it was not easy to answer the question: who has transferred the Sabbath, and who has had the right to do it?"
                George Sverdrup 'A New Day'
                Lutheran Free Church.

                "And where are we told in the scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh,but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day."
                Canon Eyton The Ten Commandments
                Anglican

                "It is true that there is no positive command for infant baptism. Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week. Many believe that Christ changed the Sabbath. But from His own words, we see that He came for no such purpose. Those who believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath base it only on supposition."
                Amos Binney Theological Compendium pp180-181
                Methodist

                "The sacred name of the seventh day is Sabbath. The fact is too clear to require argument...on this point the plain teaching of the word has been admitted in all ages...Not once did the disciples apply the Sabbath law to the first day of the week-that folly was left for a later age,nor did they pretend that the first day supplanted the seventh.
                Joseph Judson Taylor 'The Sabbath Question' pp 14,15 16-17,41
                Southern Baptist

                So it would appear that Sunday, as a scripturally based day of designated worship to replace the Sabbath, is unfounded as attested to by many others than just Sabbitarians.

                So that leaves the question, the subject of this thread, where did it come from?
                Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and
                rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by brakelite View Post
                  So it would appear that Sunday, as a scripturally based day of designated worship to replace the Sabbath, is unfounded as attested to by many others than just Sabbitarians.

                  So that leaves the question, the subject of this thread, where did it come from?
                  Those that believe as the ones quoted are rare and far and few between. We all know the vast majority believe differently and know that NT scripture shows worship was on Sundays for Christians. Since the Sabbath was no longer commanded and it was up to each to decide, a majority decided to esteem Sundays and worship on that day which was very wise because it was a sign to the world of the change of religion from Judaism to Christianity.
                  1Peter 3:15
                  (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by brakelite View Post
                    I'll be honest. I had no idea who Weigall was. I certainly do not agree with his views on the Sabbath,(if indeed your quote is contextually correct) nor do I agree with him re the trinity.
                    No offense Brakelite but do you know who any of these other people are either or did you just find all these quotes on some type of a SA/SDA site?(yes I use Google)


                    Do you know anything about George Sverdrup, Canon Eyton, Amos Binney or Joseph Judson Taylor aside from the little bit these types of websites include?
                    1Peter 3:15
                    (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Naphal View Post
                      Those that believe as the ones quoted are rare and far and few between. We all know the vast majority believe differently and know that NT scripture shows worship was on Sundays for Christians.
                      Oh??????? So how come you have so abjectly failed to prove that in any of the discussions we have had on the subject by providing the scriptures that do so?
                      Originally posted by Naphal View Post
                      Since the Sabbath was no longer commanded and it was up to each to decide,
                      Reminds me of the days at the time of the Judges.
                      Jud 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
                      Perhaps they chose Sunday because they had lost touch with Israel's King?
                      Originally posted by Naphal View Post
                      a majority decided to esteem Sundays and worship on that day which was very wise because it was a sign to the world of the change of religion from Judaism to Christianity.
                      At last you finally agree with me. That the change was made by church members and not authorized by scripture. Although I disagree strongly that it was a majority. In the beginning it was only in Rome. Christians elsewhere for hundreds of years after the apostolic age continued to keep the 7th day Sabbath. The reason Sunday popularity spread through later centuries was through persecution by the Roman church of those who desired to keep Sabbath.

                      It was wise in a way, yes. It did show the then Roman world that Christianity was different from Judaism. Keeping Sunday probably saved the lives of many Christians from being mistaken as Jews and being crucified, seeing as how popular sunday was with the Roman sun worshippers.
                      Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and
                      rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Naphal View Post
                        No offense Brakelite but do you know who any of these other people are either or did you just find all these quotes on some type of a SA/SDA site?(yes I use Google)


                        Do you know anything about George Sverdrup, Canon Eyton, Amos Binney or Joseph Judson Taylor aside from the little bit these types of websites include?
                        Actually it would have been a lot easier if I had used another site, but no, I typed them all from quotes taken from a book at home.


                        I think history would be a very short study if we could only quote from those people with which we have had a personal acquaintance or whose works with which we are thoroughly familiar.

                        And it is a very weak attempt to redirect the debate from the truth of what they say.
                        Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and
                        rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by brakelite View Post
                          Oh??????? So how come you have so abjectly failed to prove that in any of the discussions we have had on the subject by providing the scriptures that do so?
                          I actually haven't been asked to do so but others have already in this thread and they proved it. It is a historical fact that Christians always worshipped on Sundays...only some did not and do not.


                          Reminds me of the days at the time of the Judges.
                          Jud 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
                          Perhaps they chose Sunday because they had lost touch with Israel's King?

                          Quite the opposite actually. Those that knew Christ worshipped him on his day, Sunday.


                          At last you finally agree with me. That the change was made by church members and not authorized by scripture.
                          Scripture doesn't command what day to worship on. It does say we can decide for ourselves what day to esteem above other days so the majority decided on Sundays.


                          Although I disagree strongly that it was a majority. In the beginning it was only in Rome. Christians elsewhere for hundreds of years after the apostolic age continued to keep the 7th day Sabbath. The reason Sunday popularity spread through later centuries was through persecution by the Roman church of those who desired to keep Sabbath.
                          That's revisionist history but believe what you want to. Christians stopped keeping Saturdays after his death and even today. Only some kept Saturdays for worship and kept Saturdays as the Sabbath.



                          It was wise in a way, yes. It did show the then Roman world that Christianity was different from Judaism.
                          Rome only made official what was already in practice for hundreds of years. If Christianity already did not worship on Sundays Rome wouldn't have made such a decree.
                          1Peter 3:15
                          (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by brakelite View Post
                            I think history would be a very short study if we could only quote from those people with which we have had a personal acquaintance or whose works with which we are thoroughly familiar.
                            I just want to know if I can trust your recommendation of these people...especially since the first one you gave turns out to be someone you don't really agree with anyways. Seems like sloppiness to me...

                            You don't need to "personally" know these poeple...I think they a re all dead but at least know what they actually stand for not basing that on one or two quotes from a "book". What's the name of that book BTW?


                            And it is a very weak attempt to redirect the debate from the truth of what they say.
                            Some you are miss-taking, and some is simply incorrect. Barely worth a comment
                            1Peter 3:15
                            (BBE) But give honour to Christ in your hearts as your Lord; and be ready at any time when you are questioned about the hope which is in you, to give an answer in the fear of the Lord and without pride;

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Is this about seeking the truth in God's Word or merely about an attempt to 'one up' someone who disagrees with your position? Let's play nice, okay? We need to remember that we are ALL on the side of Messiah, and thus, though we clearly disagree on many things ON THE SAME SIDE!

                              God Bless!
                              II Timothy 2:15
                              Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
                              Read My Testimony sigpic Visit Our Website

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