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  • #16
    Technically that is what revival should be. Not that they are dead perhaps but maybe let's call it on the way to being so.

    I think where folks really get this messed up a bit is in understanding the calling of an evangelist. And evangelist is not a "soul winner" as labeled by many. Now before folks get bunched up... ALL CHRISTIANS should be sharing the gospel with unbelievers and thus souls won. But that isn't the ministry of an evangelist. Just like the other five offices mentioned in Ephesians... and evangelist is to equip the saints to do the work of Christ. In that equipping it includes training them in taking the message to the lost. But the evangelist, no different than the pastor, is to ultimately equip the saints.

    Now... Todd for example, calls himself a revivalist and I suppose that might be different but they operate more on the concept of reviving a dead city. Problem with that concept that I see... that would mean that at some point that city had to be alive. YOu can't revive someone that has never lived. So to start... I think that over the years, like with many other things, folks have redefined the calling of an evangelist.

    Look... there is absolutely nothing at wrong with wanting something exciting to happen. Shoot... better than going every Sunday (rote) and singing three songs (rote), taking up the offering (rote) and then listening to half hour or so of someone droning on about some Scripture (rote). If a church has fallen into that and it is recognized and someone cranks it up a couple of notches... wonderful. We should feel excitement when we enter corporate worship. If not then it can quickly just turn into something we do because that is what we have always done and in the end... you fall into either that cold state or worse... the lukewarm state.

    But there is a flipside to most everything. If a person is just going for the thrill of it all... that too can be problematic. And once it is jacked up a few notches and that becomes rote then folks jack it up a few more notches until that becomes rote and repeat... repeat... repeat... until soon... it is all just man made nonsense.

    Here lies the problem I suppose. We can psycho-analyze why it is that folks seem to need this and we all know that there would be dozens of opinions on that issue from "they were never saved in the first place" to "they have gone stark raving lunatic and now are all going to fry in hell." So trying to figure out the why on a message board would be pretty near impossible! But this is pretty much the problem that we have. Can we fix it? In degrees in that we can make sure that we don't individually fall into such as that. But overall... probably not.

    Anyway... tis early and my first post that required thinking and I am slow sipping that cup of coffee (cutting myself down to one cup a day now.... mind you it is 20 something ounces but still a lot less than normal ) so if this don't make sense... I will try again later!


    Visit our new website
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    A.W. Tozer said,
    "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

    GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
      Look... there is absolutely nothing at wrong with wanting something exciting to happen. Shoot... better than going every Sunday (rote) and singing three songs (rote), taking up the offering (rote) and then listening to half hour or so of someone droning on about some Scripture (rote). If a church has fallen into that and it is recognized and someone cranks it up a couple of notches... wonderful. We should feel excitement when we enter corporate worship. If not then it can quickly just turn into something we do because that is what we have always done and in the end... you fall into either that cold state or worse... the lukewarm state.
      That was basically the point of my comment. If you need something exciting to happen to "revive" you it means that you currently aren't very excited. I find it a troubling reality that folks come to church and sit there like a bump on a pickle like they have 50 other things better to do than be in that church for a couple of hours worshiping the Lord and hearing His Word. I know that with some folks this is going to be inevitable, but when an entire church is this way I think you have some serious issues going on. When you aren't excited to feed on God's Word and give Him praise, folks really to examine where their heart is. Many folks today say the right things, but in their heart they just seem to be miles away.
      "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

      -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

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      • #18
        Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
        That was basically the point of my comment. If you need something exciting to happen to "revive" you it means that you currently aren't very excited. I find it a troubling reality that folks come to church and sit there like a bump on a pickle like they have 50 other things better to do than be in that church for a couple of hours worshiping the Lord and hearing His Word. I know that with some folks this is going to be inevitable, but when an entire church is this way I think you have some serious issues going on. When you aren't excited to feed on God's Word and give Him praise, folks really to examine where their heart is. Many folks today say the right things, but in their heart they just seem to be miles away.
        That happens though. I think that is much of what the letters to the seven churches show us in Revelation. Folks can get so caught up in whatever... things do become rote. They need a cattle prod type something happen to them just to jar them back into spiritual reality (for lack of a better way to describe it). Sure... it points to a problem somewhere. But even still... if they are in that deep of a lull... not sure without some reviving that they would even notice it.


        Visit our new website
        ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

        A.W. Tozer said,
        "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

        GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

        Comment


        • #19
          My stomach turns seeing such video's. What you (IMO) see in these video's is an epileptic man. It's known from science epileptic people are vulnerable for having visions. A man from God gifted by the Holy Spirit to perform miracles would certainly know the difference between real and unreal.



          Ed
          Last edited by ProjectPeter; May 7 2008, 01:37 PM. Reason: link removed

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rebel777 View Post
            It's known from science epileptic people are vulnerable for having visions.
            It is known from Scripture that epilepsy isn't of God either . . .

            Matthew 17:14-18
            And when they had come to the multitude, a man came to Him, kneeling down to Him and saying, “Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and suffers severely; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water. So I brought him to Your disciples, but they could not cure him.” Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him; and the child was cured from that very hour.
            "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

            -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by rebel777 View Post
              My stomach turns seeing such video's. What you (IMO) see in these video's is an epileptic man. It's known from science epileptic people are vulnerable for having visions. A man from God gifted by the Holy Spirit to perform miracles would certainly know the difference between real and unreal.



              Ed
              Do you realize what these people are even saying in this video? See... this is where folks get strange on me. They are planting seed in the mind of people that Paul and even Moses all suffered from epilepsy and therefore that is why they had their "religious experiences." I mean come on guys... buying into this sort of stuff is buying into what the devil would have all us believe.

              I removed the link by the way because in all honesty... it was nothing short of anti-Christ propaganda.


              Visit our new website
              ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

              A.W. Tozer said,
              "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

              GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                Do you realize what these people are even saying in this video? See... this is where folks get strange on me. They are planting seed in the mind of people that Paul and even Moses all suffered from epilepsy and therefore that is why they had their "religious experiences." I mean come on guys... buying into this sort of stuff is buying into what the devil would have all us believe.

                I removed the link by the way because in all honesty... it was nothing short of anti-Christ propaganda.
                Wow! I didn't see this video, but they were saying that just because someone has a vision they are epileptic and not of God?
                "What you do does not define who you are; it's who you are that defines what you do."

                -- Dr. Neil T. Anderson

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
                  That was basically the point of my comment. If you need something exciting to happen to "revive" you it means that you currently aren't very excited. I find it a troubling reality that folks come to church and sit there like a bump on a pickle like they have 50 other things better to do than be in that church for a couple of hours worshiping the Lord and hearing His Word. I know that with some folks this is going to be inevitable, but when an entire church is this way I think you have some serious issues going on. When you aren't excited to feed on God's Word and give Him praise, folks really to examine where their heart is. Many folks today say the right things, but in their heart they just seem to be miles away.
                  This is true...but then again, you have to look deeper as to why they are like this. Why do they not hear God's word while sitting there, feel it, and want to be there then take it out to others. I can testify that I use to be like this. I'd go to church every week because that was how I was brought up. Did I want to be there? Yes and no. I felt drawn to go and there were times I really wanted to be there, but then there were times I didn't and if my kid even so much had a sniffle, that was my excuse to stay home sometimes and my husband was worse. Why did we feel this way? Because we were still too much into the world. One hour was just too long for us at times but that was because we weren't really listening to what we were being told. Could be we weren't being fed the nourishment we really needed. The veil wasn't lifted yet. Many go because they feel it's their duty to go. The reasons are many.

                  God knocks on the doors of everyones hearts, but it takes some longer than others to open up. Some open up sooner and feel as you and I do...we want to be there and go out and share God's word. We want people to know Christ as we know Him! Some take a while to open that door, as it did with me, and it took something happening in my life that brought me crashing on the ground to open that door and allow Christ in. At that moment I did that, the veil was lifted and my ears perked up and I was hungry for the nourishment Christ could provide. Now I see what others felt who had come up to me in the past wanting to share the word of God with me. Now I want to share it with others.

                  We have to look past what we see on the outside and delve deeper to the inside of people for the answers as to why the fire or light in some people has dimmed and needs to be rekindled. That is where you work from.

                  Live your life in such a
                  way that, when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says...

                  "Oh NO.... she's awake!"

                  ____________________________________________


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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by VerticalReality View Post
                    Wow! I didn't see this video, but they were saying that just because someone has a vision they are epileptic and not of God?
                    Not that simple but in essence they say that this is the reason they likely had all the visions such as Paul on the road to Damascus. Frontal lobe epilepsy is "likely" what they suffered from and this "enhanced" their "religious experience" etc. etc. etc.


                    Visit our new website
                    ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                    A.W. Tozer said,
                    "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                    GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by cheech View Post
                      This is true...but then again, you have to look deeper as to why they are like this. Why do they not hear God's word while sitting there, feel it, and want to be there then take it out to others. I can testify that I use to be like this. I'd go to church every week because that was how I was brought up. Did I want to be there? Yes and no. I felt drawn to go and there were times I really wanted to be there, but then there were times I didn't and if my kid even so much had a sniffle, that was my excuse to stay home sometimes and my husband was worse. Why did we feel this way? Because we were still too much into the world. One hour was just too long for us at times but that was because we weren't really listening to what we were being told. Could be we weren't being fed the nourishment we really needed. The veil wasn't lifted yet. Many go because they feel it's their duty to go. The reasons are many.

                      God knocks on the doors of everyones hearts, but it takes some longer than others to open up. Some open up sooner and feel as you and I do...we want to be there and go out and share God's word. We want people to know Christ as we know Him! Some take a while to open that door, as it did with me, and it took something happening in my life that brought me crashing on the ground to open that door and allow Christ in. At that moment I did that, the veil was lifted and my ears perked up and I was hungry for the nourishment Christ could provide. Now I see what others felt who had come up to me in the past wanting to share the word of God with me. Now I want to share it with others.

                      We have to look past what we see on the outside and delve deeper to the inside of people for the answers as to why the fire or light in some people has dimmed and needs to be rekindled. That is where you work from.
                      Exactly Cheech! The "excuses" (if you will) would vary from person to person to person. I honestly don't think that we could just lay blame one particular thing to each individual person.


                      Visit our new website
                      ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                      A.W. Tozer said,
                      "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                      GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by amazzin View Post
                        Always look into things yourself and always take the time to test it with scripture. Never depend on others for the things you should do yourself.
                        When I said "thanks for looking into it for me," I shouldve said I didnt know where to start looking or who the guy preaching even was. The OP had links right to the videos of the REVIVAL in FL. So I was thinking cool no searching for it. Just point and click. I probably couldve used my googlefu to find the same thing. I watched as many videos as I could stand and thats all I needed to see. That and the Wife told me to put something else on. The website that was mentioned was something I looked at after I had made my own opinion. The website makes it abundantly clear. Thanks for the Advice though its always good to search things your self and not take other peoples word for it.

                        I got a question about Todd, does he preach the salvation message? I couldnt really find any video on that, just on the healing and being slain in the spirit stuff. By defenition a revival is a series of services held in order to inspire active members of a religious body and to gain new converts. Is he really getting the message out there? If he is, is it the right message?

                        If this is how I should be as a born again Christian then I am seriously lacking something.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by coolhandluke View Post
                          When I said "thanks for looking into it for me," I shouldve said I didnt know where to start looking or who the guy preaching even was. The OP had links right to the videos of the REVIVAL in FL. So I was thinking cool no searching for it. Just point and click. I probably couldve used my googlefu to find the same thing. I watched as many videos as I could stand and thats all I needed to see. That and the Wife told me to put something else on. The website that was mentioned was something I looked at after I had made my own opinion. The website makes it abundantly clear. Thanks for the Advice though its always good to search things your self and not take other peoples word for it.

                          I got a question about Todd, does he preach the salvation message? I couldnt really find any video on that, just on the healing and being slain in the spirit stuff. By defenition a revival is a series of services held in order to inspire active members of a religious body and to gain new converts. Is he really getting the message out there? If he is, is it the right message?

                          If this is how I should be as a born again Christian then I am seriously lacking something.
                          Let me tell you this in all fairness. What you see in a clip that is six... nine... fifteen minutes long is just a wee sampling of the 3 or 4 hours this thing last each night. But to answer your question in the same fairness... not really. I have watched the full service on a number of occassions now and not really. The "gospel" message there is very weak.

                          Now saying that... if it is an "evangelistic" message then the "gospel" is not what needs be preached. Equipping the SAINTS... they should already be saved and thus the gospel message isn't necessary. But keep in mind what I posted about "Revivalist" and the desire to save a city.... that is different. If your aim is to equip the saints then equip them. If it is to save lost souls... the gospel is VITAL.

                          So in saying all of that... not sure what this would be classified as.


                          Visit our new website
                          ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                          A.W. Tozer said,
                          "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                          GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                            Let me tell you this in all fairness. What you see in a clip that is six... nine... fifteen minutes long is just a wee sampling of the 3 or 4 hours this thing last each night. But to answer your question in the same fairness... not really. I have watched the full service on a number of occassions now and not really. The "gospel" message there is very weak.

                            Now saying that... if it is an "evangelistic" message then the "gospel" is not what needs be preached. Equipping the SAINTS... they should already be saved and thus the gospel message isn't necessary. But keep in mind what I posted about "Revivalist" and the desire to save a city.... that is different. If your aim is to equip the saints then equip them. If it is to save lost souls... the gospel is VITAL.

                            So in saying all of that... not sure what this would be classified as.
                            ProjectPeter, you and cheech have offered some very wise counsel on this subject. I've only had the opportunity to watch a couple of services since hearing about it, but it does seem to me to be geared more towards equipping the saints - releasing an impartation for them to take back to their own communities, for their churches and for reaching the lost. I've heard several people, including Todd, say that what God is doing now isn't about one man or one movement, and if that's the case it would make sense that these meetings are more about spreading revival (of whatever the correct term is ) to as many regions and countries as possible.

                            I think we need to be careful about drawing conclusions from a few video clips since the point of a lot of those is to show a few minutes of something sensational rather than give an accurate overview of what is happening. When it comes to manifestations, sure, there are always going to be some who are in error, but this is (unfortunately) true of anything, including preaching and teaching, and just because some are out of order does not negate the real thing. As I said, I've only seen a couple of services, but no one in either of those was "convulsing like an epileptic". Yes, most of the people I've seen prayed for "fell out", but that was about the extent of it. For me, the more important question would be, is God being glorified? I've seen a lot of people telling about how hungry they were for more of God, praising Him for healing them...even saw a spirit of infirmity cast out of a man. In Matthew 12 Jesus says that a house divided against itself cannot stand, addressing the accusation that demons would be cast out and the sick healed by anything other than the power of God.

                            So, yeah...I'm done rambling now...just wanted to put a couple more thoughts out there.
                            May the vision of You be the death of me.

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                            • #29
                              I believe that we need to know what revival is before we judge it..

                              for every move of God there are critics...

                              are these people being legitmately healed? Does Satan work against himself? If these people are being healed, it has to be a move of God.... there is no other explanation....

                              I would be careful, we tread on new ground here... we haven't seen a move of God this powerful since the Brownsville Revival... and that one has critics too...

                              Let's look at the fruit of this revival... there are times for Scripture, people are getting saved, people are being healed... We need to look at the good coming from this and don't judge the fruit by how many nuts are in it but look instead on the fruit and praise God that he's moving and separate the fruit from the nuts...

                              the last thing this revival needs is a critical spirit...
                              The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace.” Numbers 6:24-26

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by VisionOfYou View Post
                                ProjectPeter, you and cheech have offered some very wise counsel on this subject. I've only had the opportunity to watch a couple of services since hearing about it, but it does seem to me to be geared more towards equipping the saints - releasing an impartation for them to take back to their own communities, for their churches and for reaching the lost. I've heard several people, including Todd, say that what God is doing now isn't about one man or one movement, and if that's the case it would make sense that these meetings are more about spreading revival (of whatever the correct term is ) to as many regions and countries as possible.

                                I think we need to be careful about drawing conclusions from a few video clips since the point of a lot of those is to show a few minutes of something sensational rather than give an accurate overview of what is happening. When it comes to manifestations, sure, there are always going to be some who are in error, but this is (unfortunately) true of anything, including preaching and teaching, and just because some are out of order does not negate the real thing. As I said, I've only seen a couple of services, but no one in either of those was "convulsing like an epileptic". Yes, most of the people I've seen prayed for "fell out", but that was about the extent of it. For me, the more important question would be, is God being glorified? I've seen a lot of people telling about how hungry they were for more of God, praising Him for healing them...even saw a spirit of infirmity cast out of a man. In Matthew 12 Jesus says that a house divided against itself cannot stand, addressing the accusation that demons would be cast out and the sick healed by anything other than the power of God.

                                So, yeah...I'm done rambling now...just wanted to put a couple more thoughts out there.
                                I don't want folks to misunderstand me here. I am not endorsing this Revival. Far from it actually. I am not going to be bold enough to call it of satan... but it is certainly flesh filled as anything one could observe.

                                Look... there is no teaching there. There is no Word there. There are angels and "manifestations" but none of that makes it of the Spirit of God. Would I love to see that sort of realness of the Spirit... YOU BET. Is this it? No... not in ones wildest hope. Will people get healed there? Some perhaps but not because of Todd and his visitations and all that stuff. It will be because their faith was strong enough.

                                Personally... I wouldn't waste the gas money or plane ticket to go there. There is no "edification" of the saints unless perhaps the saints need a pep rally much along the line of an old AMWAY meeting where folks gather and someone shows up to convince them to SELL SELL SELL!!! That will pump folks up for a week... maybe a month. But that too will fade. That being said... I also don't want folks to paint this picture with such a broadbrush that they make any thing "Revival" as something horrible either.


                                Visit our new website
                                ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                                A.W. Tozer said,
                                "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.”

                                GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                                Comment

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