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  • Keep in mind what John said in Revelations:

    Revelations 22:8-9

    8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

    9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

    Why any angel worship, at all, whatsoever? It sure seems to me that this man is very near to worshiping angels, or at the least considers that he has a private pipeline to God, and angels (of which none of his can be proven in scripture--like, where is his "Emma" in scripture?) but they supposedly attend and approve his every move?

    My favorite scripture: Malachi 3:16

    "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name!" (Every time we speak of the Lord, or even THINK of him--its written down in a book of remembrance!)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
      Well... since we don't have the recipe book... don't know. But seriously... I don't suspect it is all spooky and or sweet like many pictures depict. That is why it is terribly important that one know the Scripture well and have discernment to be able to keep themselves from getting into a mess.
      That's true too. If it was all so clear to everyone as spooky or sweet, they wouldn't have the chance to deceive anyone. Remember..if possible would deceive even the elect?..
      I have a Blog. Please visit!

      My Blog http://bibleforums.org/forum/blog.php?b=537

      Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

      Comment


      • Angelic Deception

        Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
        Ravi,

        Just because a minister falls doesn't make the ministry not "sanctioned" by God. David was certainly sanctioned by God as King as was Saul. Both fell... one stayed down and one got up. But neither fall negated the fact that their kingship was sanctioned by God. Same with ministers... just because a man fell doesn't negate their original call by God.
        Precisely what I said earlier. I find it useless to argue over whether or not the presence of God can actually be found in this 'revival'. Instead, it is best to ask, 'so what?'. Even if God is present in this 'revival' and His gifts are manifested there, does not prove He "sanctions" the 'revival'. God's presence, as wonderful as it is, and His gifts, valuable as they are, are given freely.

        As to the Emma Angel thing. It is bizarre. But then you know what... so is Ezekiel. Look... I don't even have a problem with visions and whatnot or even angelic visitations. I have no problem with that sort of thing still happening. Now... I have a problem when that sort of thing is the main focus but not in the idea of those type things still happening.
        As 'bizarre' as Ezekiel was, he never went beyond the revelation of God to His forerunners. As for Angel Emma, she is extra-biblical because there are no 'female angels' found anywhere in scripture. I do not have a problem with angels and visions as well. In fact, I am quite prone to such suipernatural encounters (please see my blog entry: Master of Colors). It is one thing when your supernatural encounters line up with the revelations of God, but quite another, when they become extra-biblical and sometimes, even demonically influenced. As someone rightly said, demons are after all fallen angels as well. So, we can perhaps even call them angelic visitations. But are these other angelic visitations from the Lord or are there mere deceptions, to lead His people away from the Giver to the 'gifts'?
        Last edited by ravi4u2; May 16 2008, 04:00 AM.
        sigpicLife! Just Live It!
        http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/

        Comment


        • Originally posted by daughter View Post
          What's this about an angel? I've read up on that, and it's setting my alarm bells off!
          I am with you daughter on this.

          Todd in Ethiopia casting out a demon.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqgqoXYPz7U

          My (limited) Biblical understanding of casting out devils is that:

          1) A one-time spoken command in the Name of Jesus was sufficient to force the demon to leave, nowhere I remember the command had to be repeated a dozen times;

          2) Nowhere I read the person in command was in a great emotional state of mind, instead I sense a calm Holy Power when Jesus casted out a devil, the same with the Apostles in Acts;

          3) Nowhere I read about physical contact with a demon possessed person, no laying on of hands, let alone sitting on a demon possessed person.

          Anyone?

          Ed

          Comment


          • If you look back a few pages to my post about John chapter 9, you will see that Jesus can heal people in whatever way he wants. Jesus sees a blind man- he could have just laid hands on him and said "be healed" and the man would be able to see.

            But he didn't- No, he spat on the ground and made pud pies to slap on the blind man's eyes. Jesus told my Pastor that he did this "so you would wonder".

            So as you can see, the method is irrelevent- as long as the fruit is good. And it is!

            Again- I don't like to repeat myself, but there is little point in trying to pick little things wrong with people. Because, as Jesus also shows in John chapter 9- EVERYONE SINS.

            Also just to clarify- often when Jesus threw out a demon, the person being healed would have an even greater fit. -But in the end the demon would be thrown out.

            I will say it again. Before anyone else gives a link to another website that "proves" how this is all the devil's work. I will say this:

            Does your God still do miracles?
            Does your God still heal people?
            If not I'll stick with mine,
            I like mine
            He's charging into hell and bringing heaven with him!- Rob Bell

            "So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir" - Paul - Galations 4:7

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ravi4u2 View Post
              Precisely what I said earlier. I find it useless to argue over whether or not the presence of God can actually be found in this 'revival'. Instead, it is best to ask, 'so what?'. Even if God is present in this 'revival' and His gifts are manifested there, does not prove He "sanctions" the 'revival'. God's presence, as wonderful as it is, and His gifts, valuable as they are, are given freely.

              As 'bizarre' as Ezekiel was, he never went beyond the revelation of God to His forerunners. As for Angel Emma, she is extra-biblical because there are no 'female angels' found anywhere in scripture. I do not have a problem with angels and visions as well. In fact, I am quite prone to such suipernatural encounters (please see my blog entry: Master of Colors). It is one thing when your supernatural encounters line up with the revelations of God, but quite another, when they become extra-biblical and sometimes, even demonically influenced. As someone rightly said, demons are after all fallen angels as well. So, we can perhaps even call them angelic visitations. But are these other angelic visitations from the Lord or are there mere deceptions, to lead His people away from the Giver to the 'gifts'?
              Like I said... that's where folks need to be able to discern. It is vital in this day and age, especially with the technology that we have.


              Visit our new website
              ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

              A.W. Tozer said,
              "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

              GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rebel777 View Post
                I am with you daughter on this.

                Todd in Ethiopia casting out a demon.

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqgqoXYPz7U

                My (limited) Biblical understanding of casting out devils is that:

                1) A one-time spoken command in the Name of Jesus was sufficient to force the demon to leave, nowhere I remember the command had to be repeated a dozen times;

                2) Nowhere I read the person in command was in a great emotional state of mind, instead I sense a calm Holy Power when Jesus casted out a devil, the same with the Apostles in Acts;

                3) Nowhere I read about physical contact with a demon possessed person, no laying on of hands, let alone sitting on a demon possessed person.

                Anyone?

                Ed
                Read the account of the guy in the tombs. Jesus told the demons to leave but they stuck around and negotiated a stay in a herd of pigs. So no... not always is it as easy as saying one time... come out. That's a mis-teaching that has come about by a lot of Word of Faith teachers and they are wrong on that.


                Visit our new website
                ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                A.W. Tozer said,
                "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

                GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Friend of Jesus View Post
                  If you look back a few pages to my post about John chapter 9, you will see that Jesus can heal people in whatever way he wants. Jesus sees a blind man- he could have just laid hands on him and said "be healed" and the man would be able to see.

                  But he didn't- No, he spat on the ground and made pud pies to slap on the blind man's eyes. Jesus told my Pastor that he did this "so you would wonder".

                  So as you can see, the method is irrelevent- as long as the fruit is good. And it is!

                  Again- I don't like to repeat myself, but there is little point in trying to pick little things wrong with people. Because, as Jesus also shows in John chapter 9- EVERYONE SINS.

                  Also just to clarify- often when Jesus threw out a demon, the person being healed would have an even greater fit. -But in the end the demon would be thrown out.

                  I will say it again. Before anyone else gives a link to another website that "proves" how this is all the devil's work. I will say this:

                  Does your God still do miracles?
                  Does your God still heal people?
                  If not I'll stick with mine,
                  I like mine
                  There is another message in the miracle of the blind man who sees in two stages.

                  Sometimes when you first "see" you don't see everything. For example, when I first called on God, I didn't know exactly what I was doing, I wasn't even aware that I was repenting. I was just giving up - collapsing as it were. And then I knew that something had happened, but I didn't understand yet what it was. I was given a bible the very next day, and as I was reading the Bible the scales progressively fell from my eyes, and I began to realise that I was in a process of repentance and renewal... but I didn't know all that at once. And I presume that I'll continue to see more and more clearly as time goes on.

                  I think that miracle makes us wonder, and it also shows us that salvation is an ongoing process, not a one time only event, He continues to open our eyes and lead us from darkness into light.
                  Please could everyone pray for Mieke and Charles.

                  My testimony http://bibleforums.org/forum/showthr...ight=testimony

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by daughter View Post
                    There is another message in the miracle of the blind man who sees in two stages.

                    Sometimes when you first "see" you don't see everything. For example, when I first called on God, I didn't know exactly what I was doing, I wasn't even aware that I was repenting. I was just giving up - collapsing as it were. And then I knew that something had happened, but I didn't understand yet what it was. I was given a bible the very next day, and as I was reading the Bible the scales progressively fell from my eyes, and I began to realise that I was in a process of repentance and renewal... but I didn't know all that at once. And I presume that I'll continue to see more and more clearly as time goes on.

                    I think that miracle makes us wonder, and it also shows us that salvation is an ongoing process, not a one time only event, He continues to open our eyes and lead us from darkness into light.

                    Good point- I hadn't noticed that before. I used to think my salvation happened in the space of 2 or 3 months about 5 years ago. But after the experience of God I am having at the moment, I realise that was only part of the package of salvation that God had given me- I just hadn't fully unwrapped it.

                    Slightly different to your experience I know- but it is the same kind of idea
                    He's charging into hell and bringing heaven with him!- Rob Bell

                    "So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir" - Paul - Galations 4:7

                    Comment


                    • Where do you get the idea of angel worship in the Lakeland Revival?
                      The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

                      Comment


                      • Timmy,

                        Got to be honest with you on this issue... there is WAY TOO MUCH emphasis put on the angelic in Lakeland. With Todd as well and that's been a pattern of his for several years now so nothing new in regard to him. But there is much more emphasis on the angelic than there is on Christ.

                        Flip side of that coin... Of late Todd is putting a bit more emphasis on Christ and even had a couple of services where he was almost "grossly" (just a phrase to make the point folks so don't freak) put the emphasis on Christ. So we will see. Unfortunately... that hasn't held consistent but it is happening more and more. So perhaps he is listening.


                        Visit our new website
                        ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                        A.W. Tozer said,
                        "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

                        GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                          Timmy,

                          Got to be honest with you on this issue... there is WAY TOO MUCH emphasis put on the angelic in Lakeland. With Todd as well and that's been a pattern of his for several years now so nothing new in regard to him. But there is much more emphasis on the angelic than there is on Christ.

                          Flip side of that coin... Of late Todd is putting a bit more emphasis on Christ and even had a couple of services where he was almost "grossly" (just a phrase to make the point folks so don't freak) put the emphasis on Christ. So we will see. Unfortunately... that hasn't held consistent but it is happening more and more. So perhaps he is listening.

                          do you realize that the angelic is working in partnership with the Holy Spirit... I don't see them worshipping angels, I see them paying attention to what they are doing and where they are at..... Everytime I hear Todd talk about the angel of the Lord it's usually where he's at, or what he's doing... I find that he's listening... I haven't seen a hint of angelic worship in this revival and I try to watch it as much as I can.
                          The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

                          Comment


                          • I didn't say there was "worship." You are the one that put that word in there in regard to what I said. What I said was there is WAY TOO MUCH EMPHASIS. Difference there Timmy. And as to your idea of angels working in such a way... how about one of them there Scriptures to make that point.


                            Visit our new website
                            ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                            A.W. Tozer said,
                            "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.

                            GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                              Read the account of the guy in the tombs. Jesus told the demons to leave but they stuck around and negotiated a stay in a herd of pigs. So no... not always is it as easy as saying one time... come out. That's a mis-teaching that has come about by a lot of Word of Faith teachers and they are wrong on that.
                              OK, very well. What about Matt 7:21-24?

                              21 Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will go into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the pleasure of my Father in heaven.
                              22 A great number will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, were we not prophets in your name, and did we not by your name send out evil spirits, and by your name do works of power?
                              23 And then will I say to them, I never had knowledge of you: go from me, you workers of evil.

                              It's interesting that Jesus does not deny the claims made by these people, this leaves room for speculation that verse 22 is literal true, that there are non-Christians who pretend being Christian doing supernatural things in the name of Jesus and that God allows these miracles to happen anyway? Now that would be confusing, or?

                              Alright, the absence of a denial is not conclusive and maybe that's the best explanation. Verse 20 gives us the key to recognize them anyway, their fruits and I haven't heard a single bad rumour about Tod.

                              Ed

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ProjectPeter View Post
                                I didn't say there was "worship." You are the one that put that word in there in regard to what I said. What I said was there is WAY TOO MUCH EMPHASIS. Difference there Timmy. And as to your idea of angels working in such a way... how about one of them there Scriptures to make that point.
                                i never said you did... i was seeing the implication made throughout the threads...


                                Heb 1:13 And to which of the angels has he ever said, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"?
                                Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

                                they work to minister the work of the Holy Spirit and the ministers of God who are humans are to work in partnership with that....
                                The LORD bless you and keep you; The LORD make His face shine upon you,And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance upon you,And give you peace. Numbers 6:24-26

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