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  • Seperated, Help Desired

    I am posting here because I have been visiting this site for almost a year, and I have enjoyed the daily devotional and reading the members responses here to those who are in need. This is truly a blessing, and I consider my self-fortunate to be apart of this community.

    I have a problem. I have been married for 5 years, and I have two little girls. I am separated as of this last week. My wife and I had an argument and I left. But, as you will soon see, it is much more complicated then that. Jodi (for private use) and I married in our early twenties after courting for 3 years. We broke up several times during our courtship because I desired to remain a virgin until marriage and we ended up in situations where it enabled her to push the envelope, so to speak. So I would leave her, and tell her I needed to recope and pray before we made an immoral decision. Luckily, we made it, and we fought the good fight and married.

    The story begins. On our honeymoon, I was so excited, we could finally engage in becoming one, physically. I have been athletic my whole junior and high school life, body builder through college, and rugby player. My sex drive was and is very high, which along comes a great deal of self control, which I exhibited throughout my younger life as I adhered to the values God was instilling in me. Jodi was a cheerleader in College and showed a strong desire for me physically, which I enjoyed the attention. But, her relationship with the Lord is what drew me to here, she wasnít very strong spiritually but she showed so much desire to be. We had quiet times, and prayer for each other during our courtship (which I quickly found out was not an excellent ideal because I get very turned on praying with her, I think God designed that in me lol) anyways, I finally decided to marry.

    Back to our honeymoon, it wasnít good at all. I finally could do what we wanted to do for so long, but it wasnít good for her and eventually me. We were immature, but God would guide us, and I realized I needed to exhibit a great deal of patience and sacrifice, which I tried.

    Fast-forward three years, before we had our girls. Our sex life was horrible. She would say "are you done yet, I am too tired, my face hurts, I had a long day at work, ect....." I prayed, and asked God to show me how to be selfless to her. I prayed that He would take away my sex drive so that we would not fight. The truth was, we fought so much about it that I could see she felt pressured into sex with me, and that is what I did not want. I did not want to be in a relationship with someone who "feels pressured to be with me."

    So I asked God again, "Lord, I want to be a great husband to Jodi, and I want my desires to be yours, please give me patience, and maybe her drive will come or please show me how not to put so much pressure on sex" but the truth is, I love sex, not just because I am selfish, but because I feel like it releases frustration, stress, and the ability of Satan to tempt me, and she could do all of this by just becoming one with me. I would go to work (fulltime student, and worked 50+ hrs a week = which was probably one of the problems) and woman at the hospital would come on to me, even patients, patients family members and I always felt attacked with this temptation. I would have my quiet times during my breaks, and I would avoid the other woman who would pursue me, even knowing that I am married. For three years I did this, I allowed God to give me strength, He was my hope, what I was grasping onto.

    I finally decided to quit one of my jobs, and go fulltime at my other. As I was training, my boss, a beautiful, intelligent, Christian woman was my preceptor. Right off the back, we had excellent chemistry (working chemistry), I was so excited because I actually enjoyed coming to work. I liked my new boss (just as a friend) and I enjoyed my coworkers as well as working with the doctors hand in hand. Well day in and day out, my boss was precepting me. One day as I was in a case, she came up behind me and touched my arm----I paused---- and to myself, I thought how nice it was just to have a woman touch me, the sweet, kind gesture of having another human, a womanís touch. My wife had not done that in I donít know how long. She thought that any physical interaction would lead to sex, so she tried to avoid it. But when my boss did, that one time, I committed emotional adultery, I thought in my head how special it was, even though it was just a touch.

    I shrugged it off and continued with my workday, but I could tell my boss was becoming more and more interested in me. And truthfully, so was I. She was so outgoing, so loving to me, understanding, uplifting, caring----of course, everything my wife wasn't----Satan was setting a trap, or so I am thinking. On my way home that first day, I pray in my vehicle and I asked God to give me wisdom and forgive me. I came home and ask Jodi to sit down. I had tears in my eyes and I said, "Jodi, I need you, I need you as my wife, as my lover, as my companion" I began to tell her that Satan is tempting me with areas of our life you view so negatively, like our sex life. I informed her that she is the only woman in my life that I can come together sexually, and she is all I want, but she holds that from me, and I feel like she has used that to control me.
    I have spoken with her, prayed with her; we went to our first sessions of marriage counseling because of it (we also attended a 16 week premarital counseling).

    Well, nothing changed between Jodi and me. But things did with my boss and I. We began to talk and communicate more and more everyday. She became attracted to me and one day before the workday was over she approached me, and grabbed my hands and pulled me to her, and we kissed. I did not pull away. I was so torn, because I had not felt what it felt like to have another woman love me, and it had been so long since my wife had kissed me, wantingly without me coming to her and holding her. From then on I was so happy at work and so depressed at home. I know the relationship that I was forming was wrong, but I was so nice to have someone who actually liked me, and eventually grew to love me.

    As days passed my relationship grew with my boss, and after pushing her away continuously when it came to making love, I finally gave in, and I committed adultery. My boss was ecstatic, and began falling for me, and eventually we would make love several times a day, every workday. I am not trying to make this thread bad, or unGodly, I am trying to take you through my emotional trip, so that you all can advise me.

    I didnít know what to do, her is my wife, who does everything she can to avoid sex with me (we would have meaningful sex once every week and a half or so, which eventually provided us with two beautiful girls), and almost any form of physical interaction. and then here is this stunning woman, who does believe in God (although her relationship is not strongly morally convicting as you can see), is intelligent, sexy and has a wonderful sex drive. To make things short, over the next two years my boss and I develop a very strong relationship, she even shows a great deal of concern for my wife and guilt, so she would buy her gifts and give them to me to give to her as if they came from me. She would by my little girlís gifts as well as myself. She actually and truthfully loved me, and genuinely cared for me. This was evident over the whole two years. But I knew what I was doing was not right, I just couldnít fight it anymore, I began leading a double life, but eventually I broke, and I told my wife. She was heartbroken, and so was I. I decided that seeing my little girls with their mommy and daddy was more important then my selfish desire to be loved, so I picked my family up and we moved to another city, (I was fortunate that Jodi decided to try and work things out). We lived in the other city for 6 months and then moved back, to where we had friends and family.

    Our sex life never improved. She informed me that she felt like her intimate feelings for me started to dissipate the day of our honeymoon. We started her on hormone shots, which helped, but in the end, she was "having to have sex with me". It was nice and wonderful to have a woman that actually "wanted" to be with me, and loved being in my presence. But, my family has to be more important then my happiness.

    My former boss, would text me every once and a while, sad, and upset, she gave me my room. But the truth is, in my heart, I know God dislikes divorce; it is such a horrible picture of His love we are supposed to be exhibiting towards our spouse, similar to Jesus exhibiting His love for the Church. But...I loved this woman, my boss, I loved her spirit, her soul, and her love for me. Feelings or not, I still loved her, and she loved me. There was no more "infatuation" or "lust"; it was just sincere love for another person. It has been over three years now, and I am back in the similar situation again.

    Jodi and I got into a fight, during sex, she started complaining about this or that and I had had enough! I got up and said bye and headed to the gym where I have been able to release my frustration for the last five years. She texted me, and said she was tired of it, and I said, "Mark your words wisely Jodi, if you tell me to leave, this time I will" and she sent me the message "Then leave", so I did.

    Let me clarify a few things. I love my baby girls, I work 48 hours a week and still go to school full time, when I get off work (night shift), I go home and wake the girls, I bathe them while Jodi gets ready, and then I dress them, then I take them to school. After taking them to school, I text my wife, asking if I can bring her breakfast. Then I go home, sleep, wake up at lunch, and after to take her lunch, after lunch I come home and sleep some more, trying to get at least five hours of total sleep before I go back to work. I pick both girls up at five from daycare and take them home. If I am not working, I make the nights special; I either go get movies and popcorn for all of us as a family, or I take everyone out to eat. Every night I am off (3 to 4 nights per week) I lay Jodi down on our bed while she watches her show, and I massage her for one hour, I understand the day she has had and I find enjoyment in helping to release her stress through massaging her back, feet, arms, and legs. I make it special, I lay towels out, warm oil. I make points to make time on the weekends to go visit her family and so on.

    I am saying this because I want to point out that I am trying to be a good husband and father, though little appreciation is ever reciprocated, it really breaks my heart. I have never let her go without; she has a new suv, and the house she wanted. I make it a point to take her clothe shopping once a month, you know, just her and I, making it a point to put aside 500.00 so she can get what she desires. I try to do everything I can, even though I know there is more I can do, please donít mistake my level of energy as pride, I earnestly try cloaking myself with humility. But nothing every changes on her side of the relationship, nothing .

    I am so dismayed, I pray, I fast, and I try earnestly to turn from my vices and progress in His word. But I just cant live like this. I have so much love that I want to give, to someone who appreciates it.

    My boss has found out that I left her, and she is excited. I have told her that I am not interested in anything right now, except my relationship with God.

    Let me clarify. I know what I did was wrong, I sinned before my Lord and Savior, I am a sinner.

    Please help advise me, pray for me, ask me questions.............I need someone to talk to, It is tough being alone and I donít want to fall into any womanís arms.
    The evidence for evolution is, at best, very weak. The evidence for scientific irresponsibility on the part of evolutionists is tragically and sadly conspicuous. It should also be said that along with dishonesty, trust is another casuality of aderence to evolution; dissention amongst proponents of evolution is quite telling of the fact that there are serious problems with the evolutionary paradigm.

  • #2
    Hi CRNA, welcome to the board!

    I just wanted to tell you that I know ALL TO WELL of what you speak. There are so many similarities in your post that have been in my life. I started out to tell you my story, but it is very long. I do have something I want to share with you.

    My prayer partner, Sunday school teacher, deacon, Promise Keeper husband left his family for another woman ten years ago. He has said numerous times that "he did not leave his children, he left me." He does take care of his children, but the damage that has been done has left severe scars on them.

    I am posting an email that my 'second' mom wrote to him. It may appear harsh, but she sent it with the most absolute love and concern in her heart.

    Dear _____,

    This email is the first one I've written in several days because I feel it is important for both of us--for me as your friend to write the truth in love and you to receive it as such. I've asked God not to let me say anything untrue or unnecessary but beyond that I've not made up a 'prepared statement' and am writing from my heart/head. I know you've been miserable; Karen has told me so and I know you would have to be in your situation. I think you have tried the best of YOUR ability to be a good husband and father--obviously that has not worked well. OUR ability never will. We just can't do it in our own power.

    I remember a time (in a former life long, long ago) when I was so unfulfilled and wanted someone else to meet my needs and was tempted to stray from my commitment--only thing that kept me from it was knowing God's displeasure would far surpass any temporary exhilaration of infidelity.

    You say you're miserable now? You ain't seen nothin' yet!

    REAL MISERY WILL COME WHEN:

    1. YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR THREE, INNOCENT, BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN THAT YOU'RE LEAVING THEM/THEIR MOTHER/THE FAMILY UNIT.

    2. WHEN THE ADDICTIVE THRILLS OF NEW, ILLICIT, SEXUAL PASSION DIMINISH (and they will go relatively fast!) THE GUILT WILL EVENTUALLY GET YOU!

    3. WHEN YOU REALIZE YOU HAVE LEFT THE MOTHER OF YOUR GOD-GIVEN CHILDREN FOR A WOMAN WHO IS SLEAZY ENOUGH TO HAVE SEX WITH A MARRIED MAN

    4. WHEN THE WOMAN FINALLY REALIZES SHE'S ALLIED WITH A MAN WHO WILL CHEAT ON HIS 'WOMAN'--YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TRUST ONE ANOTHER AND THIS WILL BE THE BASIS FOR VERY REAL LOOOOOONG BATTLES THAT WILL MAKE YOUR CURRENT HOME BATTLES LOOK LIKE LOVE FESTS

    5. WHEN MONEY IS A CONTINUAL PROBLEM/STRESSOR

    6. WHEN ALL OF THE HOLIDAYS ARE A MAJOR BATTLEGROUND

    7. WHEN YOUR CHILDREN CALL ANOTHER MAN IN YOUR HOME "DADDY"

    8. WHEN YOUR DAUGHTERS LOOK TO OTHER MEN TO FULFILL FOR THEM THE VOID YOU HAVE LEFT IN THEIR HEARTS.

    9. WHEN YOUR CHILDREN WHO WILL HAVE NO FATHER AT HOME TO CONSTANTLY GUIDE THEM, WANT TO ENGAGE IN THE SAME BEHAVIOR YOU ARE EXHIBITING AS THEIR ROLE MODEL.

    10. WHEN THE GUILT FINALLY DRIVES YOU TO DEPRESSION AND GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT ELSE WILL FOLLOW.

    Hang onto THESE 10 MISERIES because it's the ADDENDUM TO THE TEXTBOOK CASE you're following of ALL GUYS WHO: first cheat, then lie, excuse, deny rationalize, and thing God will let them get away with it.

    Even David who committed this same grievous sin was at least repentant***but the MISERY (as outlined 1-10 above) followed him all of the days of his life; his infant son died, several of his children were a disgrace and God never let him have the real desire of his heart.

    I'm not saying you don't have a repentant heart. I HOPE you do! Don't let the flesh win!!!

    You may say that your children are young. My children were young. They were 4,6,7 when he left. They are now 14, 16, 18 and each have some very deep-seated hurts. My 14 and 16 year old are girls and at this very moment I am grieving because there are some very serious issues going on in their lives.....a mother's absolute terror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The things written above HAVE happened and are happening.

    You mentioned that you know God doesn't like divorce. In Malachi 2:16, God said, "I HATE divorce."

    I know you are miserable and I see the conflict within you. My husband was very miserable. BUT.....GOD IS GOD and He can do anything!!! Unfortunately He doesn't work on our timetable, but He KNOWS and He doesn't forget. He doesn't slumber OR sleep. You are His child...the apple of His eye. I believe the apple of one's eye is the direct center of the pupil....that's where you are. In the center of His eye. He's got you and HE IS ABLE!!!!!

    You feel miserable now and who knows for how long.
    I have seen some pretty wicked marriages restored to blessings beyond measure. I wasn't fortunate that way, but GOD IS STILL GOD and if you draw near to Him He will most certainly draw near to you.

    My heart is heavy for you, your wife and your children.

    It's getting late and I fear I am beginning to ramble. I pray that God gives you the strength to do what is right no matter what!

    In His perfect love,
    Karen






    I sing for I cannot be silent. HIS love is the theme of my song!

    Comment


    • #3
      CRNA...welcome to the forum.

      Although here on Counseling Requests others may be able to sympathize with your troubled marriage history including your account of sexual incompatiblity we will not condone adultery nor accept justification for it. God forgives and if you are truly of a repentant heart,which you say you are, you are forgiven.

      It seems obvious to me that you need to seek further pastoral help and counseling. Perhaps your wife would be willing to do this yet. We have heard your story here but we don't have her story except as you have told it. Perhaps sitting down face to face with a Christian counselor or minister will help you. Someone who can hear both of you.

      As for advice..I think you know that marriage is much more than the sexual part although that part is very important. Love is more than just a feeling. It is a decision.

      As for our board...we give mainly biblical counsel here and are not set up to advise you beyond that or in a professional capacity. The bible is clear on your situation and what is right and what is not. I think you know that.

      We have heard your side of the marriage from your point of view. A marriage couselor will work with both of you in the event your wife is still willing to give that another try. As for where it goes from here..we can only give you our prayers and concern. I think seeking help face to face with a pastoral counselor may still remain your best option even if you have to go alone. In time perhaps your wife would reconsider doing this.

      As for scriptural reference: The story of David comes to my memory also; especially as told in 2 Samuel Chapters 11-18.

      Peace and blessings,

      wiseoldowl ... facilitator
      "The flowers appear on the earth,
      the time of singing has come,
      and the voice of the turtledove
      is heard in our land
      ." SofS 2:12 (RSV)

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi CRNA, as others have said, welcome to the board. I enjoy a lot of the devotionals, too.

        There's so much in your post to talk about, it's hard to know where to begin. I guess the most obvious place is your thoughts/feelings about marriage. Kasanm is right to point out that it isn't that God doesn't like divorce, but rather, that He hates it. Keep in mind, we're talking about God, who created all things, is holy and just, and in keeping with His own justice, came to earth as perfection, dieing for our sins. Have you looked upon that cross? Have you seen the agony and the wrath of God as His justice for sin was poured out? Have you realized that what was done to Jesus is what you deserve? Have you come to the place of knowing that eternal hell is what you 'deserve'? (Just like all of us do.)

        I ask these things because while you say that you are a sinner, you also qualify it in a sense by leaving us to understand that you feel you deserve a good sex life. You deserve reciprocal love from your wife. You deserve her willingness to live up to your expectations.

        I totally get that and from a worldly point of view, you're right. Somehow when we look to God, that falls apart. If we're going to 'be Christlike' then we have to look at what that really means. Jesus (the only perfect One), took what He didn't deserve. He was betrayed, abandoned and crucified by those He loves - us. And yet, you know, He loves us still. It was that Love that held Him to the cross.

        What kind of love are you displaying? Is your love willing to bear the cross? Is your love willing to die to self and live to Him and to your wife? What do those vows mean that you took before God, your wife, friends and family? When you said "for better or worse" did you have a secret line in the sand of what 'worse' you were willing to endure to death do you part?

        As a Christian man, do you understand that your job is to represent God on earth... particularly to your wife and your children? When you give your wife the message that she needs to get it together and start giving you more sex or you'll find someone else that will, or you'll leave her... what are you showing her about God? If you leave your children, destroying the family unit, what are you teaching them about God and how will it affect their relationships with Him as they grow up? How will it affect their future marriages when they know that those vows don't really mean anything, because that's what you will have taught them?

        When this life is over and you stand before the Lord, what do you want to know about yourself? Do you have a desire to hear 'Well done, good and faithful servant", or is it more important to you to find sexual satisfaction here and now and just figure that you can be forgiven so it'll all be okay? And the wake of destruction you leave in your path doesn't really matter or will magically work out alright?

        I know I'm asking a lot of really intense questions. I hope you'll really think about them and examine yourself before the Lord.

        You said;
        "I have so much love that I want to give, to someone who appreciates it"
        Let that sentence be changed in your heart to "I have so much love that I want to give." Period. That's loving like He does.

        and
        "I did not want to be in a relationship with someone who "feels pressured to be with me."
        Of course you don't! But don't you realize that you're the one that's made her feel 'pressured'? She didn't fulfill your desires, so you found someone else. You prayed that the Lord would take away your sex drive so that you wouldn't argue about it anymore, instead of asking the Lord to give you strength to die to self and carry this cross and to heal your marriage. Now you're telling her that if she 'doesn't' that you'll leave her. Um... that's called pressure and you're the one that's made her feel that way.

        The vast majority of women would gladly live in a little house without all kinds of 'stuff', as long as they know that their husbands love them and are devoted and faithful to them (no matter what) till death do them part.

        I pray that you would go home (if she'll have you) and spend the rest of your life honoring God and loving your wife in such a way as to heal her heart... even if it means you never have sex again (I will also pray that's not the case!) I pray that your children would grow up knowing what real love means and how God loves them, because they've seen it visibly demonstrated in you, toward them and toward their mother. Go home and love them like lives depend on it... because they do.
        I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrus...

        All children left unattended will be given an espresso and a free puppy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by kasanm View Post
          Hi CRNA, welcome to the board!

          I just wanted to tell you that I know ALL TO WELL of what you speak. There are so many similarities in your post that have been in my life. I started out to tell you my story, but it is very long. I do have something I want to share with you.

          My prayer partner, Sunday school teacher, deacon, Promise Keeper husband left his family for another woman ten years ago. He has said numerous times that "he did not leave his children, he left me." He does take care of his children, but the damage that has been done has left severe scars on them.

          I am posting an email that my 'second' mom wrote to him. It may appear harsh, but she sent it with the most absolute love and concern in her heart.

          Dear _____,

          This email is the first one I've written in several days because I feel it is important for both of us--for me as your friend to write the truth in love and you to receive it as such. I've asked God not to let me say anything untrue or unnecessary but beyond that I've not made up a 'prepared statement' and am writing from my heart/head. I know you've been miserable; Karen has told me so and I know you would have to be in your situation. I think you have tried the best of YOUR ability to be a good husband and father--obviously that has not worked well. OUR ability never will. We just can't do it in our own power.

          I remember a time (in a former life long, long ago) when I was so unfulfilled and wanted someone else to meet my needs and was tempted to stray from my commitment--only thing that kept me from it was knowing God's displeasure would far surpass any temporary exhilaration of infidelity.

          You say you're miserable now? You ain't seen nothin' yet!

          REAL MISERY WILL COME WHEN:

          1. YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR THREE, INNOCENT, BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN THAT YOU'RE LEAVING THEM/THEIR MOTHER/THE FAMILY UNIT.

          2. WHEN THE ADDICTIVE THRILLS OF NEW, ILLICIT, SEXUAL PASSION DIMINISH (and they will go relatively fast!) THE GUILT WILL EVENTUALLY GET YOU!

          3. WHEN YOU REALIZE YOU HAVE LEFT THE MOTHER OF YOUR GOD-GIVEN CHILDREN FOR A WOMAN WHO IS SLEAZY ENOUGH TO HAVE SEX WITH A MARRIED MAN

          4. WHEN THE WOMAN FINALLY REALIZES SHE'S ALLIED WITH A MAN WHO WILL CHEAT ON HIS 'WOMAN'--YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TRUST ONE ANOTHER AND THIS WILL BE THE BASIS FOR VERY REAL LOOOOOONG BATTLES THAT WILL MAKE YOUR CURRENT HOME BATTLES LOOK LIKE LOVE FESTS

          5. WHEN MONEY IS A CONTINUAL PROBLEM/STRESSOR

          6. WHEN ALL OF THE HOLIDAYS ARE A MAJOR BATTLEGROUND

          7. WHEN YOUR CHILDREN CALL ANOTHER MAN IN YOUR HOME "DADDY"

          8. WHEN YOUR DAUGHTERS LOOK TO OTHER MEN TO FULFILL FOR THEM THE VOID YOU HAVE LEFT IN THEIR HEARTS.

          9. WHEN YOUR CHILDREN WHO WILL HAVE NO FATHER AT HOME TO CONSTANTLY GUIDE THEM, WANT TO ENGAGE IN THE SAME BEHAVIOR YOU ARE EXHIBITING AS THEIR ROLE MODEL.

          10. WHEN THE GUILT FINALLY DRIVES YOU TO DEPRESSION AND GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT ELSE WILL FOLLOW.

          Hang onto THESE 10 MISERIES because it's the ADDENDUM TO THE TEXTBOOK CASE you're following of ALL GUYS WHO: first cheat, then lie, excuse, deny rationalize, and thing God will let them get away with it.

          Even David who committed this same grievous sin was at least repentant***but the MISERY (as outlined 1-10 above) followed him all of the days of his life; his infant son died, several of his children were a disgrace and God never let him have the real desire of his heart.

          I'm not saying you don't have a repentant heart. I HOPE you do! Don't let the flesh win!!!

          You may say that your children are young. My children were young. They were 4,6,7 when he left. They are now 14, 16, 18 and each have some very deep-seated hurts. My 14 and 16 year old are girls and at this very moment I am grieving because there are some very serious issues going on in their lives.....a mother's absolute terror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The things written above HAVE happened and are happening.

          You mentioned that you know God doesn't like divorce. In Malachi 2:16, God said, "I HATE divorce."

          I know you are miserable and I see the conflict within you. My husband was very miserable. BUT.....GOD IS GOD and He can do anything!!! Unfortunately He doesn't work on our timetable, but He KNOWS and He doesn't forget. He doesn't slumber OR sleep. You are His child...the apple of His eye. I believe the apple of one's eye is the direct center of the pupil....that's where you are. In the center of His eye. He's got you and HE IS ABLE!!!!!

          You feel miserable now and who knows for how long.
          I have seen some pretty wicked marriages restored to blessings beyond measure. I wasn't fortunate that way, but GOD IS STILL GOD and if you draw near to Him He will most certainly draw near to you.

          My heart is heavy for you, your wife and your children.

          It's getting late and I fear I am beginning to ramble. I pray that God gives you the strength to do what is right no matter what!

          In His perfect love,
          Karen





          ...............
          Last edited by CRNA; May 15th 2008, 03:00 AM.
          The evidence for evolution is, at best, very weak. The evidence for scientific irresponsibility on the part of evolutionists is tragically and sadly conspicuous. It should also be said that along with dishonesty, trust is another casuality of aderence to evolution; dissention amongst proponents of evolution is quite telling of the fact that there are serious problems with the evolutionary paradigm.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by wiseoldowl View Post
            CRNA...welcome to the forum.

            Although here on Counseling Requests others may be able to sympathize with your troubled marriage history including your account of sexual incompatiblity we will not condone adultery nor accept justification for it. God forgives and if you are truly of a repentant heart,which you say you are, you are forgiven.

            It seems obvious to me that you need to seek further pastoral help and counseling. Perhaps your wife would be willing to do this yet. We have heard your story here but we don't have her story except as you have told it. Perhaps sitting down face to face with a Christian counselor or minister will help you. Someone who can hear both of you.

            As for advice..I think you know that marriage is much more than the sexual part although that part is very important. Love is more than just a feeling. It is a decision.

            As for our board...we give mainly biblical counsel here and are not set up to advise you beyond that or in a professional capacity. The bible is clear on your situation and what is right and what is not. I think you know that.

            We have heard your side of the marriage from your point of view. A marriage couselor will work with both of you in the event your wife is still willing to give that another try. As for where it goes from here..we can only give you our prayers and concern. I think seeking help face to face with a pastoral counselor may still remain your best option even if you have to go alone. In time perhaps your wife would reconsider doing this.

            As for scriptural reference: The story of David comes to my memory also; especially as told in 2 Samuel Chapters 11-18.

            Peace and blessings,

            wiseoldowl ... facilitator
            Been to counseling three times so far, almost to tired to put the gloves on again, but I will, and I know she wants me back, I am not sure if its because I pamper her or do any and everything she asks me to do, or if she sincerely loves me. Thank you for the reference, it will be the main focus of my devotional tonight.
            The evidence for evolution is, at best, very weak. The evidence for scientific irresponsibility on the part of evolutionists is tragically and sadly conspicuous. It should also be said that along with dishonesty, trust is another casuality of aderence to evolution; dissention amongst proponents of evolution is quite telling of the fact that there are serious problems with the evolutionary paradigm.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kayte View Post
              Hi CRNA, as others have said, welcome to the board. I enjoy a lot of the devotionals, too.

              There's so much in your post to talk about, it's hard to know where to begin. I guess the most obvious place is your thoughts/feelings about marriage. Kasanm is right to point out that it isn't that God doesn't like divorce, but rather, that He hates it. Keep in mind, we're talking about God, who created all things, is holy and just, and in keeping with His own justice, came to earth as perfection, dieing for our sins. Have you looked upon that cross? Have you seen the agony and the wrath of God as His justice for sin was poured out? Have you realized that what was done to Jesus is what you deserve? Have you come to the place of knowing that eternal hell is what you 'deserve'? (Just like all of us do.)

              I ask these things because while you say that you are a sinner, you also qualify it in a sense by leaving us to understand that you feel you deserve a good sex life. You deserve reciprocal love from your wife. You deserve her willingness to live up to your expectations.

              I totally get that and from a worldly point of view, you're right. Somehow when we look to God, that falls apart. If we're going to 'be Christlike' then we have to look at what that really means. Jesus (the only perfect One), took what He didn't deserve. He was betrayed, abandoned and crucified by those He loves - us. And yet, you know, He loves us still. It was that Love that held Him to the cross.

              What kind of love are you displaying? Is your love willing to bear the cross? Is your love willing to die to self and live to Him and to your wife? What do those vows mean that you took before God, your wife, friends and family? When you said "for better or worse" did you have a secret line in the sand of what 'worse' you were willing to endure to death do you part?

              As a Christian man, do you understand that your job is to represent God on earth... particularly to your wife and your children? When you give your wife the message that she needs to get it together and start giving you more sex or you'll find someone else that will, or you'll leave her... what are you showing her about God? If you leave your children, destroying the family unit, what are you teaching them about God and how will it affect their relationships with Him as they grow up? How will it affect their future marriages when they know that those vows don't really mean anything, because that's what you will have taught them?

              When this life is over and you stand before the Lord, what do you want to know about yourself? Do you have a desire to hear 'Well done, good and faithful servant", or is it more important to you to find sexual satisfaction here and now and just figure that you can be forgiven so it'll all be okay? And the wake of destruction you leave in your path doesn't really matter or will magically work out alright?

              I know I'm asking a lot of really intense questions. I hope you'll really think about them and examine yourself before the Lord.

              You said;
              Let that sentence be changed in your heart to "I have so much love that I want to give." Period. That's loving like He does.

              and
              Of course you don't! But don't you realize that you're the one that's made her feel 'pressured'? She didn't fulfill your desires, so you found someone else. You prayed that the Lord would take away your sex drive so that you wouldn't argue about it anymore, instead of asking the Lord to give you strength to die to self and carry this cross and to heal your marriage. Now you're telling her that if she 'doesn't' that you'll leave her. Um... that's called pressure and you're the one that's made her feel that way.

              The vast majority of women would gladly live in a little house without all kinds of 'stuff', as long as they know that their husbands love them and are devoted and faithful to them (no matter what) till death do them part.

              I pray that you would go home (if she'll have you) and spend the rest of your life honoring God and loving your wife in such a way as to heal her heart... even if it means you never have sex again (I will also pray that's not the case!) I pray that your children would grow up knowing what real love means and how God loves them, because they've seen it visibly demonstrated in you, toward them and toward their mother. Go home and love them like lives depend on it... because they do.
              Your wrong. For three years I prayed to my Father as I slept that He would give me patience not to desire my wife like I do, so as not to pressure her. But night after night, she still never came on to me, and I know me coming onto her is just another "pressure" that I am putting on her.

              You are right about everything else, I agree, I am not here to satisfy my selfish/God given human desires. Why did God give my such a strong sex drive and then entrap me with a woman who hates it, Hmmm, I guess to develop character!!! Now I am angry, I must stop, thanks again.
              The evidence for evolution is, at best, very weak. The evidence for scientific irresponsibility on the part of evolutionists is tragically and sadly conspicuous. It should also be said that along with dishonesty, trust is another casuality of aderence to evolution; dissention amongst proponents of evolution is quite telling of the fact that there are serious problems with the evolutionary paradigm.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by kasanm View Post
                Hi CRNA, welcome to the board!

                I just wanted to tell you that I know ALL TO WELL of what you speak. There are so many similarities in your post that have been in my life. I started out to tell you my story, but it is very long. I do have something I want to share with you.

                My prayer partner, Sunday school teacher, deacon, Promise Keeper husband left his family for another woman ten years ago. He has said numerous times that "he did not leave his children, he left me." He does take care of his children, but the damage that has been done has left severe scars on them.

                I am posting an email that my 'second' mom wrote to him. It may appear harsh, but she sent it with the most absolute love and concern in her heart.

                Dear _____,

                This email is the first one I've written in several days because I feel it is important for both of us--for me as your friend to write the truth in love and you to receive it as such. I've asked God not to let me say anything untrue or unnecessary but beyond that I've not made up a 'prepared statement' and am writing from my heart/head. I know you've been miserable; Karen has told me so and I know you would have to be in your situation. I think you have tried the best of YOUR ability to be a good husband and father--obviously that has not worked well. OUR ability never will. We just can't do it in our own power.

                I remember a time (in a former life long, long ago) when I was so unfulfilled and wanted someone else to meet my needs and was tempted to stray from my commitment--only thing that kept me from it was knowing God's displeasure would far surpass any temporary exhilaration of infidelity.

                You say you're miserable now? You ain't seen nothin' yet!

                REAL MISERY WILL COME WHEN:

                1. YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR THREE, INNOCENT, BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN THAT YOU'RE LEAVING THEM/THEIR MOTHER/THE FAMILY UNIT.

                2. WHEN THE ADDICTIVE THRILLS OF NEW, ILLICIT, SEXUAL PASSION DIMINISH (and they will go relatively fast!) THE GUILT WILL EVENTUALLY GET YOU!

                3. WHEN YOU REALIZE YOU HAVE LEFT THE MOTHER OF YOUR GOD-GIVEN CHILDREN FOR A WOMAN WHO IS SLEAZY ENOUGH TO HAVE SEX WITH A MARRIED MAN

                4. WHEN THE WOMAN FINALLY REALIZES SHE'S ALLIED WITH A MAN WHO WILL CHEAT ON HIS 'WOMAN'--YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TRUST ONE ANOTHER AND THIS WILL BE THE BASIS FOR VERY REAL LOOOOOONG BATTLES THAT WILL MAKE YOUR CURRENT HOME BATTLES LOOK LIKE LOVE FESTS

                5. WHEN MONEY IS A CONTINUAL PROBLEM/STRESSOR

                6. WHEN ALL OF THE HOLIDAYS ARE A MAJOR BATTLEGROUND

                7. WHEN YOUR CHILDREN CALL ANOTHER MAN IN YOUR HOME "DADDY"

                8. WHEN YOUR DAUGHTERS LOOK TO OTHER MEN TO FULFILL FOR THEM THE VOID YOU HAVE LEFT IN THEIR HEARTS.

                9. WHEN YOUR CHILDREN WHO WILL HAVE NO FATHER AT HOME TO CONSTANTLY GUIDE THEM, WANT TO ENGAGE IN THE SAME BEHAVIOR YOU ARE EXHIBITING AS THEIR ROLE MODEL.

                10. WHEN THE GUILT FINALLY DRIVES YOU TO DEPRESSION AND GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT ELSE WILL FOLLOW.

                Hang onto THESE 10 MISERIES because it's the ADDENDUM TO THE TEXTBOOK CASE you're following of ALL GUYS WHO: first cheat, then lie, excuse, deny rationalize, and thing God will let them get away with it.

                Even David who committed this same grievous sin was at least repentant***but the MISERY (as outlined 1-10 above) followed him all of the days of his life; his infant son died, several of his children were a disgrace and God never let him have the real desire of his heart.

                I'm not saying you don't have a repentant heart. I HOPE you do! Don't let the flesh win!!!

                You may say that your children are young. My children were young. They were 4,6,7 when he left. They are now 14, 16, 18 and each have some very deep-seated hurts. My 14 and 16 year old are girls and at this very moment I am grieving because there are some very serious issues going on in their lives.....a mother's absolute terror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The things written above HAVE happened and are happening.

                You mentioned that you know God doesn't like divorce. In Malachi 2:16, God said, "I HATE divorce."

                I know you are miserable and I see the conflict within you. My husband was very miserable. BUT.....GOD IS GOD and He can do anything!!! Unfortunately He doesn't work on our timetable, but He KNOWS and He doesn't forget. He doesn't slumber OR sleep. You are His child...the apple of His eye. I believe the apple of one's eye is the direct center of the pupil....that's where you are. In the center of His eye. He's got you and HE IS ABLE!!!!!

                You feel miserable now and who knows for how long.
                I have seen some pretty wicked marriages restored to blessings beyond measure. I wasn't fortunate that way, but GOD IS STILL GOD and if you draw near to Him He will most certainly draw near to you.

                My heart is heavy for you, your wife and your children.

                It's getting late and I fear I am beginning to ramble. I pray that God gives you the strength to do what is right no matter what!

                In His perfect love,
                Karen





                I am just curious Karen, did you try and fix the problems you both were having or was it all his fault? And, is he still with that other woman? is he happy?
                The evidence for evolution is, at best, very weak. The evidence for scientific irresponsibility on the part of evolutionists is tragically and sadly conspicuous. It should also be said that along with dishonesty, trust is another casuality of aderence to evolution; dissention amongst proponents of evolution is quite telling of the fact that there are serious problems with the evolutionary paradigm.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kasanm View Post
                  1. YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO YOUR THREE, INNOCENT, BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN THAT YOU'RE LEAVING THEM/THEIR MOTHER/THE FAMILY UNIT.
                  Or would you rather me having to explain to them why their mother and father fight and are unhappy every day they are together? Great example of the love of Christ.

                  Originally posted by kasanm View Post
                  2. WHEN THE ADDICTIVE THRILLS OF NEW, ILLICIT, SEXUAL PASSION DIMINISH (and they will go relatively fast!) THE GUILT WILL EVENTUALLY GET YOU!
                  Well, this other woman and I had been seeing each other for over a year, the "thrills" have not left, but the infatuation and lust has. I have been through the guilt of doing wrong before my family and the Lord, it is horrible, thats why staying married is so difficult.



                  Originally posted by kasanm View Post

                  3. WHEN YOU REALIZE YOU HAVE LEFT THE MOTHER OF YOUR GOD-GIVEN CHILDREN FOR A WOMAN WHO IS SLEAZY ENOUGH TO HAVE SEX WITH A MARRIED MAN
                  Correct, but it has taken two to destroy this. I have heard four stories of men who were in my exact situation who have been remarried to there other woman and have been married 15 plus years to the other woman, and they are so glad they did it, "christian men" who were trapped in my similiar situation. These four stories have been told to me since I posted this.

                  Maybe the wife should consider change, maybe that would help?

                  Originally posted by kasanm View Post
                  4. WHEN THE WOMAN FINALLY REALIZES SHE'S ALLIED WITH A MAN WHO WILL CHEAT ON HIS 'WOMAN'--YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO TRUST ONE ANOTHER AND THIS WILL BE THE BASIS FOR VERY REAL LOOOOOONG BATTLES THAT WILL MAKE YOUR CURRENT HOME BATTLES LOOK LIKE LOVE FESTS
                  Very true I agree, but nothing more then the horrible fights I am having with the woman who I love and actually adore who cants stand for me to touch here (this starting after our honeymoon). Anything would be better.

                  Originally posted by kasanm View Post


                  5. WHEN MONEY IS A CONTINUAL PROBLEM/STRESSOR
                  huh? I dont get it, unless God desires to take away everything I have for desires to live a happeir life with someone who loves me. I still follow Christ and love Him with all my being, I am just in a bad place right now, and I am trying to figure out what is the best approach, live in misery or start over?

                  Originally posted by kasanm, 1638659
                  6. WHEN ALL OF THE HOLIDAYS ARE A MAJOR BATTLEGROUND
                  They already are.

                  Originally posted by kasanm, 1638659
                  7. WHEN YOUR CHILDREN CALL ANOTHER MAN IN YOUR HOME "DADDY"
                  This will be painful, but I pray God will give me strength, and eventually they will realize who there real Daddy is. And trust me, no man, will ever be able to replace me towards my girls, let that be understood. I am involved in their everyday lives even though she and I arent together, we eat everyday, I pray with them every morning, I take them to school and pick them up. The day another man tries to take that from me, will be the day I go to see the Father.

                  Originally posted by kasanm, 1638659
                  8. WHEN YOUR DAUGHTERS LOOK TO OTHER MEN TO FULFILL FOR THEM THE VOID YOU HAVE LEFT IN THEIR HEARTS.
                  lol, my wife's mother and father split and she seems to have done just fine, we were both virgins when we married, so another inaccurate thought.

                  Originally posted by kasanm, 1638659

                  9. WHEN YOUR CHILDREN WHO WILL HAVE NO FATHER AT HOME TO CONSTANTLY GUIDE THEM, WANT TO ENGAGE IN THE SAME BEHAVIOR YOU ARE EXHIBITING AS THEIR ROLE MODEL.
                  My father is an excellent Godly man, who has been a great example of Christ to me and my brothers and sisters, he was never home though because he provided so my mom could stay home. The time we did have together was special though. In fact, most Christian men and secular men who work and slave for their families arent home alot, but we try and make it work, so another irrelevant post.

                  Originally posted by kasanm, 1638659

                  10. WHEN THE GUILT FINALLY DRIVES YOU TO DEPRESSION AND GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT ELSE WILL FOLLOW.
                  Where are you getting this junk from? I would like to speak to the lady that wrote this. I am a Bible believing Christian, and actually I am very conservative. I was in a bad situation and I made mistakes, I am not perfect.
                  The evidence for evolution is, at best, very weak. The evidence for scientific irresponsibility on the part of evolutionists is tragically and sadly conspicuous. It should also be said that along with dishonesty, trust is another casuality of aderence to evolution; dissention amongst proponents of evolution is quite telling of the fact that there are serious problems with the evolutionary paradigm.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Karen, I am not upset at you, I am just upset at the whole situation, it seems like it is always the mans fault in these type of situations.

                    Men suffer most from sexual tempations, they have testosterone running through their veins, it is what drives us. We must exhibit self control, but as in my case, I live with a beautiful woman who I continually inform her of this, but wont meet these needs that only she can physically (other then God). So I am being tortured in the sense that I can sleep in the same bed with this one woman, my wife, but I cant even come together with her. That is torture. And that is her fault! I dont care what others will say, THAT IS A NEED FOR A HUSBAND, NOT A WANT. My wife needs me to provide for her, and I DO, BECAUSE THAT IS HER NEED. When I go to work without having certain needs met, then the door for temptation is so much larger TRUST ME I KNOW THIS! Please dont tell me I am wrong for saying this, unless you are a man and can put yourself in the same situation, then I will respect your opinion.
                    The evidence for evolution is, at best, very weak. The evidence for scientific irresponsibility on the part of evolutionists is tragically and sadly conspicuous. It should also be said that along with dishonesty, trust is another casuality of aderence to evolution; dissention amongst proponents of evolution is quite telling of the fact that there are serious problems with the evolutionary paradigm.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wiseoldowl View Post
                      CRNA...welcome to the forum.

                      Although here on Counseling Requests others may be able to sympathize with your troubled marriage history including your account of sexual incompatiblity we will not condone adultery nor accept justification for it. God forgives and if you are truly of a repentant heart,which you say you are, you are forgiven.

                      It seems obvious to me that you need to seek further pastoral help and counseling. Perhaps your wife would be willing to do this yet. We have heard your story here but we don't have her story except as you have told it. Perhaps sitting down face to face with a Christian counselor or minister will help you. Someone who can hear both of you.

                      As for advice..I think you know that marriage is much more than the sexual part although that part is very important. Love is more than just a feeling. It is a decision.

                      As for our board...we give mainly biblical counsel here and are not set up to advise you beyond that or in a professional capacity. The bible is clear on your situation and what is right and what is not. I think you know that.

                      We have heard your side of the marriage from your point of view. A marriage couselor will work with both of you in the event your wife is still willing to give that another try. As for where it goes from here..we can only give you our prayers and concern. I think seeking help face to face with a pastoral counselor may still remain your best option even if you have to go alone. In time perhaps your wife would reconsider doing this.

                      As for scriptural reference: The story of David comes to my memory also; especially as told in 2 Samuel Chapters 11-18.

                      Peace and blessings,

                      wiseoldowl ... facilitator
                      Well, I just got off the phone with her. We had a very pleasant and comforting conversation. She said she felt peaceful about it, which was good to hear. We will be signing papers next week. Thank you all for the help and guidance.
                      The evidence for evolution is, at best, very weak. The evidence for scientific irresponsibility on the part of evolutionists is tragically and sadly conspicuous. It should also be said that along with dishonesty, trust is another casuality of aderence to evolution; dissention amongst proponents of evolution is quite telling of the fact that there are serious problems with the evolutionary paradigm.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        CRNA,

                        Here's the thing about fault... usually it is some of both. That is almost a rule that always applies regardless of how either side wants to see it.

                        I don't know what to tell you about why your wife has a problem with intamacy. Could be quite a number of things. But man... honestly... if there is a problem deeply rooted with her in that regard (likely is) then if you really do love her that is going to require a lot more patience than a lot of men have... but then I would say if you really do love her then you can hang.

                        I hear you about the gym but as should be apparent... the gym is not going to work out the sort of tension that you have. Your options, as you stated, are to fall into temptation or simply put those urges and needs down until you can get this fixed.

                        Now... sounds like you two are fixing to go on and get the divorce... and that would be a shame. But it is going to take swallowing a lot of pride and testosterone for you to get it fixed now. If you are willing to do that and you want to talk further then here for you. If you are just going to quit and call it good... then let us know and we'll just close this thread and you can go on with life trying to justify it in your mind.


                        Visit our new website
                        ! The Blog might interest some.. and Lord help me!!!... for those that twitter... there as well.

                        A.W. Tozer said,
                        "To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.Ē

                        GO.... SERVE YOUR KING!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CRNA View Post
                          Your wrong. For three years I prayed to my Father as I slept that He would give me patience not to desire my wife like I do, so as not to pressure her. But night after night, she still never came on to me, and I know me coming onto her is just another "pressure" that I am putting on her.

                          You are right about everything else, I agree, I am not here to satisfy my selfish/God given human desires. Why did God give my such a strong sex drive and then entrap me with a woman who hates it, Hmmm, I guess to develop character!!! Now I am angry, I must stop, thanks again.
                          I figured you'd be angry, but had to take that risk. I don't believe that the Lord puts impossible demands on us... incredibly hard ones, yes, but He also makes us able to bear it and walk it out if we surrender to Him. I also found out that there's joy after that surrender has been made. Before, well.. it only looks like misery.

                          Originally posted by CRNA View Post
                          Karen, I am not upset at you, I am just upset at the whole situation, it seems like it is always the mans fault in these type of situations.

                          Men suffer most from sexual tempations, they have testosterone running through their veins, it is what drives us. We must exhibit self control, but as in my case, I live with a beautiful woman who I continually inform her of this, but wont meet these needs that only she can physically (other then God). So I am being tortured in the sense that I can sleep in the same bed with this one woman, my wife, but I cant even come together with her. That is torture. And that is her fault! I dont care what others will say, THAT IS A NEED FOR A HUSBAND, NOT A WANT. My wife needs me to provide for her, and I DO, BECAUSE THAT IS HER NEED. When I go to work without having certain needs met, then the door for temptation is so much larger TRUST ME I KNOW THIS! Please dont tell me I am wrong for saying this, unless you are a man and can put yourself in the same situation, then I will respect your opinion.
                          As ProjectPeter said, it usually both's fault.
                          The responses you've received here are directed toward you because YOU are the one here. If your wife were the one posting, you can be assured that she'd be hearing some hard things, too. But she's not here, so we can't address that side of it. Make sense?

                          One sin doesn't ever justify or make another sin okay. That's just the way it is, so it's kind of silly to want to place 'fault' anyway. When you stand before God, there's no way you can point at your wife and say it was her fault that you did what you did. And the same will go for her.

                          Kind of sad that you can't respect the opinion of women that haven't been in your shoes, but perhaps you could find some respect for women that have a husband that's been in your shoes? And maybe hear what's helped those women to work on it?

                          But, if you're bound and determined to divorce, there's no point in going on, so let us know.
                          I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrus...

                          All children left unattended will be given an espresso and a free puppy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            See ProjectPeter's post to you above.

                            Originally posted by CRNA View Post
                            Well, I just got off the phone with her. We had a very pleasant and comforting conversation. She said she felt peaceful about it, which was good to hear. We will be signing papers next week. Thank you all for the help and guidance.
                            CRNA, since you asked to talk with a man I asked a male moderator/administrator, ProjectPeter, who has replied to you two posts above this one(unless someone else or you post while I am typing this ). If you haven't done so yet...please reply to him before you respond to my post or any other.

                            And once more I just want to repeat my suggestion for you to consider seeing a marriage counselor again, that is, if your decision is not final. But it will mean that both of you are willing to do this.

                            You shared with us your side of what you see as a failure in the marriage; but any problem, and this often includes sexual issues , usually has a deeper root. I am guessing that it may be a communication break down or just an inablity to communicate especially regarding the issues surrounding intimacy. Marriage counselors see this constantly.

                            To get help though, if you and her decide to give it another go, you will need a third party..mediator/counselor, to help you with this and you will both have to be willing to work on it with that person and with each other.


                            You and your wife are in my prayers tonight.

                            My husband and I have been married 47 years and we still have to work on it; but not as much as when we were younger that is for sure. I think praying together has really helped us stay together. The first 25 were the hardest. Sometimes now we are so close we finish each others' sentences sort of like the couples in "When Harry Met Sally."

                            And one more scripture no matter what journey lies ahead for you.

                            Ephesians 4:26 "In your anger do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry."

                            Peace, <><

                            wiseoldowl
                            "The flowers appear on the earth,
                            the time of singing has come,
                            and the voice of the turtledove
                            is heard in our land
                            ." SofS 2:12 (RSV)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Update, we decided to hold off. I fasted and prayed throughout last night and I know in my heart that God has put us together for a reason, and thats to glorify Him with our lives. I have done poorly, but i am not going to give up. I am asking God to soften my heart, and restore what was lost.
                              The evidence for evolution is, at best, very weak. The evidence for scientific irresponsibility on the part of evolutionists is tragically and sadly conspicuous. It should also be said that along with dishonesty, trust is another casuality of aderence to evolution; dissention amongst proponents of evolution is quite telling of the fact that there are serious problems with the evolutionary paradigm.

                              Comment

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